Death of a Bebop

Aramsolari

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May I present a fairer review of Cowboy Bebop from someone who adopts an objective approach to film reviewing. He's not obnoxious, he's not flashy, and he doesn't have a drink in hand. The guy just takes the show apart meticulously and presents his review. He doesn't fixate on one issue (ie. Faye Valentine) and drone on about it. Struckmann is an actual filmmaker, screenwriter, and is a certified Rotten Tomatoes reviewer.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrTuRR2JTcc
 

Shadow Reaper

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May I present a fairer review of Cowboy Bebop from someone who adopts an objective approach to film reviewing. He's not obnoxious, he's not flashy, and he doesn't have a drink in hand. The guy just takes the show apart meticulously and presents his review.
It was a good review and I agree with virtually everything he said, but it doesn't identify why the fans literally hated it and why it was cancelled. The fans were quite vocal and clear about this. They hated Fey and felt they'd been betrayed by THE MESSAGE and that is in fact EXACTLY what happened.

People do not want that woke shit shoved down their throats. They want Fey 6' tall and size 2, with her entire midrif showing. They didn't get it and the show is cancelled. End of story. Go woke, go broke.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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It was a good review and I agree with virtually everything he said, but it doesn't identify why the fans literally hated it and why it was cancelled. The fans were quite vocal and clear about this. They hated Fey and felt they'd been betrayed by THE MESSAGE and that is in fact EXACTLY what happened.

People do not want that woke shit shoved down their throats. They want Fey 6' tall and size 2, with her entire midrif showing. They didn't get it and the show is cancelled. End of story. Go woke, go broke.
That's a hell of blanket statement. You think that's true for the entire fan base, the vocal minority and the silent majority?
 

Shadow Reaper

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I think it was a vocal minority, but they were very vocal. They gathered a crowd and forums all over were indeed filled with bile. It's worth noting that Tomatoes does good reviews and I think they're mostly fair, but they seldom match consumer satisfaction. This guy skipped over what we know about how it was cancelled in part because the review was before it was canned, and part because he did not want to alert the Left. He talked about the bile, but did not connect it to the lack of audience acceptance when in fact, that's what the most vocal complaints did. He compained about the complaining, but never said what people were complaining about. People were pissed this short little runt insulted the audience by telling them she doesn't care that they wanted a taller actress. After that, the show was effectively done for.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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I think it was a vocal minority, but they were very vocal. They gathered a crowd and forums all over were indeed filled with bile. It's worth noting that Tomatoes does good reviews and I think they're mostly fair, but they seldom match consumer satisfaction. This guy skipped over what we know about how it was cancelled in part because the review was before it was canned, and part because he did not want to alert the Left. He talked about the bile, but did not connect it to the lack of audience acceptance when in fact, that's what the most vocal complaints did. He compained about the complaining, but never said what people were complaining about. People were pissed this short little runt insulted the audience by telling them she doesn't care that they wanted a taller actress. After that, the show was effectively done for.
Thanks for your angle on this, so lets put a number on it and say this vocal minority was a true minority and was 5% of the viewership... so 5% of viewers abandon the series because Fay the Human doesn't look like Fay the Cartoon... 1) That isn't the reason why the Fans abandoned it as 5% does not cover the fan base, and B) I don't think that 5% dripping out after the first episode is what caused the viewership to fall as far as it did to cause a second series to be abandoned... I just can't see the connection. The search for why the Fans walked continues...?

Going on the record again - I have not yet seen it. Intend to.
 

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The fans were quite vocal and clear about this. They hated Fey and felt they'd been betrayed by THE MESSAGE and that is in fact EXACTLY what happened.

People do not want that woke shit shoved down their throats.
Which fans?

If you go onto Spectrum you will find people losing their minds and wanting to quit playing Star Citizen forever because the last Luminalia gift was a picture and not anything useful. Clearly they are the reasonable voice of the entire Star Citizen community.

Just because some horny teenagers were pissed that Faye was not showing enough skin is not a reason to blame "wokeness" for everything that is wrong in life.
 

Aramsolari

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I think it was a vocal minority, but they were very vocal.
Yup. You're right there...it was a vocal minority and they were very vocal.

They gathered a crowd and forums all over were indeed filled with bile.
Yeah that's called Brigading. They same dudes going from forum to forum to voice their discontent. Don't mistake the actions of a few as representative of the majority.

It's worth noting that Tomatoes does good reviews and I think they're mostly fair, but they seldom match consumer satisfaction.
Rotten Tomatoes is THE Review site that I trust the most because it's an aggregate of hundreds of reviewers from all walks of life. It's the closest we have to 'public opinion'.

This guy skipped over what we know about how it was cancelled in part because the review was before it was canned, and part because he did not want to alert the Left.
Alert the Left? Wat?

People were pissed this short little runt insulted the audience by telling them she doesn't care that they wanted a taller actress. After that, the show was effectively done for.
Lemme tell you something, show's don't get canceled because an outspoken cast member 'insulted' the fans. Should she have kept her mouth shut? Maybe? I'm glad she defended herself though.

The fact is...Fandom can be absolutely FUCKING ugly when something doesn't go their way. I remember the abuse 'Fans' heaped on Star Wars actors like Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd. More recently the abuse heaped on Kelly Marie Tran (The actress who played Rose Tico in the Star Wars Sequels) almost drew her to suicide. Now for Cowboy Bebop, the kid who played Ed is getting similar abuse. Know how old she is? She's fucking 13. Folks need to understand that there are actual people behind these roles. Like...Pump the Brakes, Yo.

Folks frequent a handful of the same sites and think what they see is representative of the majority. It really isn't. All social media sites by their nature funnel their users down echo chambers. Watch one video by Ben Shapiro and you'll be recommended more of his stuff. Watch something by Bill Maher and you'll get the same from that angle. Before you know it, you're going down the rabbit hole where you think EVERYONE believes what you believe.

Studio/Network Execs know this and make their decisions based on careful analysis. They do not bow down to the mob.
 

Deroth

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@Aramsolari, in his video he stated that Shinichirō Watanabe was a consultant, but he has stated in multiple interviews that they never communicated with him.
Hajime Yatate, the Sunrise animation staff that worked collectively to create the Cowboy Bebop anime, have stated they would like to write an episode for the Netflix Cowboy Bebop and were willing to consult, but also have stated they were never contacted and whenever they reached out themselves they were ignored.
So it came across a bit disingenuous to me for him to state otherwise right from the beginning of the video.

My overall thoughts on Netflix's Cowboy Bebop is the issue is with the Production Staff and Script Writers that Netflix chose, they clearly had no understanding of the source material, and worse, they didn't WANT to understand the source material. They wanted to make their own thing while using the names fans would recognize in the hopes of bilking them for money.

For an example of an adaption done correctly, I see Good Omens from Amazon Prime as a perfect example. While one of the original authors is dead the other is still alive, they actively involved him in decisions from casting to story, worked with him to give opportunities for script writers and actors to talk to him to understand the story and the characters, to bounce ideas off him and to find out if there were ideas discussed for the books that never made it in, and then asked him to do PR interviews to talk about his experience working on the show, the changes that were made, and why they were made. He did a great job of this so the show was well received, making enough money that the Season 2 has been green lit.

I see Netflix's Cowboy Bebop much more like BBC's The Watch, where the family and estate for the now deceased author have made statements across multiple interviews that the Production Staff and Script Writers for the show made it abundantly clear they only wanted the names from the books to be pasted onto the characters and locations on the story they want to tell to draw the eyes of views (money) but had no interest in the source material story or character development.

The Faye Valentine/Daniella Pineda drama is just a symptom of the bad decision making of the Production Staff. If the Production Staff felt she was a good choice THEY should've made a statement explaining why, which would've been far easier to do honestly if they had actually interacted with Hajime Yatate. Instead, they put her out there to make an idiotic attack on fans for asking, "Why her?" She's an actress, she was selected for a role, she never should've been the one put out there to defend that decision (just like a lower enlisted in the military should never be the one put out to explain the decisions of their commanding officers), instead she should've only been speaking on her experiences with the creation of the show (like what the rest of the core cast was doing.)

As for the Ed drama, the first time I heard of anyone attacking the person selected to play Ed was during that video. The only complaints I've seen up until then was that Ed and Ein are also central characters to the anime, that if I remember correctly were introduced in Episode 3, that contributed significantly to plot development as well as the character development of the rest of the central characters, so not introducing them until the last 40 seconds of the final episode AFTER Spike fought Vicious makes no sense beyond hoping that belated pandering would buy them a second season.
 

Aramsolari

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My overall thoughts on Netflix's Cowboy Bebop is the issue is with the Production Staff and Script Writers that Netflix chose, they clearly had no understanding of the source material, and worse, they didn't WANT to understand the source material. They wanted to make their own thing while using the names fans would recognize in the hopes of bilking them for money.
Yup. Therein lies the problem there. Production hell.

I agree with pretty much all you've said and place the blame solely on the feet of the Showrunner/Writers.

I do think that placing the blame for the show's demise on select cast members is at best unwarranted and at worst disingenuous/nefarious.
 

Deroth

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Yup. Therein lies the problem there. Production hell.

I agree with pretty much all you've said and place the blame solely on the feet of the Showrunner/Writers.

I do think that placing the blame for the show's demise on select cast members is at best unwarranted and at worst disingenuous/nefarious.
Completely agree. Her statements, while not great, are not going to kill a show. Not hard to find plenty of cases were worse has been said (or done <cough>Roman Polanski</cough>) that caused zero harm to the viewership and returns on the show or movie.
 

Aramsolari

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Completely agree. Her statements, while not great, are not going to kill a show. Not hard to find plenty of cases were worse has been said (or done <cough>Roman Polanski</cough>) that caused zero harm to the viewership and returns on the show or movie.
The way it works is that the industry prefers to recast an actor who isn't working out rather than scrap a show completely. You have sets that have been built already, costumes made/purchased, camera/lighting/grip equipment rented, sound stages booked, etc. In the case of Bebop, the actress who played Faye would have been recast if she was the weak link. Instead what we got was Netflix pulling the plug completely.

I worked on a show early last year that ended up dumping the lead actor after ONE episode. We ended up going on a short 1 month hiatus before going back it again. Hell...COVID didn't shut us down for long....let alone something like a recasting decision.

My colleagues who worked on Batwoman faced the same situation except they actually finished shooting an entire season lol.

Shows get canceled for two reasons. A) They're not making any money B) Somebody dies.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Alert the Left? Wat?
Your reviewer noted there was a stir and then failed to say what it was. It was this. The changes to Faye that the fans abhored they abhored specifically because they recognized them as woke complaints about what the Left calls "misogeny". The fans then voted with their lack of attendance.

You sound like you want to argue about all this, and that if only We The People knew what the reviewers at Tomatoes did, the show would be on the air. It is however NOT ON THE AIR for these reasons, and your reviewer got all of that WRONG! Critical Drinker got it RIGHT. The fans hated what was done to Faye and voted by leaving. End of story. Go woke, go broke.

It's important people get this. People don't watch Star Trek because of all the politisizing, and if there comes along a woke Flash Gordon people aren't going to watch that either.

IMHO, this was a great adaptation and it got cancelled because the design of the thing reflected the needs of the woke instead of the needs of the fans. After the first episode aired they could have fixed this with a quick promo of Faye's actress wearing the yellow costume, but the studio didn't bother. That killed this.

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Aramsolari

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Your reviewer noted there was a stir and then failed to say what it was. It was this. The changes to Faye that the fans abhored they abhored specifically because they recognized them as woke complaints about what the Left calls "misogeny". The fans then voted with their lack of attendance.
I've listed a whole slew of reasons why I wasn't impressed with the show and why I'm not surprised it was canceled. Stuckmann has done the same, others here have done the same. I don't think many of us here (or elsewhere) are fixated on the Faye character/actor and 'woke' culture as the primary reason for the show's demise. But hey...you do you.

You sound like you want to argue about all this, and that if only We The People knew what the reviewers at Tomatoes did, the show would be on the air.
Argue? I thought we're having a friendly discussion? Are you so used to having everything go your way in the other communities that have been graced by your presence that you cannot fathom people having differing views? You posted a video here and opened yourself to scrutiny. Do you really expect us to watch your video, nod in agreement, and silently move on?

Meanwhile the reviewers at Rotten Tomatoes have the show at a whopping 47% What are you even on about? The general consensus among reviewers/general audience is that the show isn't good and they're not for the reasons you're obsessed about.

It is however NOT ON THE AIR for these reasons, and your reviewer got all of that WRONG! Critical Drinker got it RIGHT. The fans hated what was done to Faye and voted by leaving. End of story. Go woke, go broke.
Let's respectfully agree to disagree there.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Okay, just so long as you keep in mind I agree entirely with the review you posted. I discovered the show the same year that reviewer did on Adult Swim, and agreed with literally everything he said. I just think he was acting a bit cowardly that he didn't explain the position of the fans when everyone knows what happened.

I will maintain my position that the reviewer chose to not cite the compaints being offered from the start because like everyone in Hollywood, he is terrified to be cancelled. The arts could not blossom the last time this happened, in the 1950s, and they're awefully sickly now. The only real push back are the comedians and it is all getting worse by the day. It will continue to get worse until people push back.
 
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Bass I think it's time to blow this scene. Get everybody and the stuff together. OK 3 2 1 Let's jam.
 

Aramsolari

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What's the difference, I am curious to know how you define both titles?
Fair question.

In my opinion a film critic is someone who tries to stay objective about the films he/she reviews. They look at stuff like story structure, pacing, writing, cinematography, acting, etc, etc. You know the bits that make a film good. Think Roger Ebert back in the day or someone like Chris Stuckmann today. I personally appreciate film reviewers who meticulously take apart a film going so far as to identify Act Structure and subthemes.

Someone like this Critical Drinker guy fixates on one or two topics and just goes off. He's (again in my opinion), not a critic. He's more akin to an Op Ed, Talking Head type.
 

Aramsolari

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Okay, just so long as you keep in mind I agree entirely with the review you posted. I discovered the show the same year that reviewer did on Adult Swim, and agreed with literally everything he said. I just think he was acting a bit cowardly that he didn't explain the position of the fans when everyone knows what happened.
I watched Cowboy Bebop in the 90s as a kid in Asia in the original Japanese language albeit with subtitles. I stand firm that Anime is best left alone and shouldn't be adapted into live action, let alone by Hollywood. There are cultural and language nuances that simply do not translate well.

I will maintain my position that the reviewer chose to not cite the compaints being offered from the start because like everyone in Hollywood, he is terrified to be cancelled.
I understand that there is an element of self censorship. I don't think that's what this guy was trying to do. He's a reviewer and it's not his job to go in depth into what others think, only what he thinks. He's certainly not going to air out dirty laundry from 4chan or whatever in his videos. Meanwhile all this talk about 'Cancel Culture', did it not occur to you that you're doing exactly the same? Patting yourself on the back because you believe you've done your part in helping cancel the show and defend us all from evil woke culture?

The arts could not blossom the last time this happened, in the 1950s, and they're awefully sickly now. The only real push back are the comedians and it is all getting worse by the day. It will continue to get worse until people push back.
Are you talking about McCarthy and the Red Scare? Yeah we're not quite there yet lol. Again 'people pushing back'? What people? Are you so bold as to make the claim that your views are mainstream and representative of the majority?
 

Bambooza

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So someone like Nerdwriter would be a critic?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5NhHBjyJe4



I have to say I have been baffled by those who claim to be critics or are referred as being a critic as sometimes baffling where someone like Critical Drinker while obnoxious at times they are easily understood where they are coming from and judging something by. But then we have critic reviews of movies where on a whole they overly praise it while the common reviewer rates it very low and when I too view the movie I wonder what did the critics watch.

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I understand that art is in the eye of the beholder, and sometimes people have taken the time to explain to me what they saw and why they appreciated it, and other times these same critics have keyed in on things that explained why an enjoyed show was enjoyable. But other times try as I might I still can't see why it's praised (like Prince purple rain) and I wonder if in the end its some sort of emperor's new clothes and they are more about patting each other on the back for some message/artistic element/talent and not so much what is enjoyable.
 
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