Esperia Prowler LTI $425

MikeNificent

Space Marshal
Sep 24, 2016
474
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MikeNificent
Good luck @Gauna. Design looks sweet!

Cool or not, I don't believe I will be spending $425 on this one. Not my style. I wanna dig rocks and explore.

My $0.02: This stealth style boarding ship would not be implemented if it wasn't going to work in game. Its doable without breaking what we know so far about scanner tech. Here's how:

The US Military currently has radar tech that receives radar waves, processes them, and sends fake waves back to the sender in real time. The fabricated signal shows the radar operator the detected craft as bigger or smaller, and in a location different from where it actually is. No reason why a basic EM or Radar scanner couldn't be fooled by something similar a thousand years from now.

I'm looking forward to seeing it work in game, whenever that may be :)
 

Black Sunder

Rock Raiders
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Jun 19, 2014
8,270
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Black_Sunder
Good luck @Gauna. Design looks sweet!

Cool or not, I don't believe I will be spending $425 on this one. Not my style. I wanna dig rocks and explore.

My $0.02: This stealth style boarding ship would not be implemented if it wasn't going to work in game. Its doable without breaking what we know so far about scanner tech. Here's how:

The US Military currently has radar tech that receives radar waves, processes them, and sends fake waves back to the sender in real time. The fabricated signal shows the radar operator the detected craft as bigger or smaller, and in a location different from where it actually is. No reason why a basic EM or Radar scanner couldn't be fooled by something similar a thousand years from now.

I'm looking forward to seeing it work in game, whenever that may be :slight_smile:
M7 $0.02 says I can still use visual scanning to find this ship. And then ram it.
 

Bruttle

Space Marshal
Donor
Aug 20, 2016
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Bruttle
M7 $0.02 says I can still use visual scanning to find this ship. And then ram it.
I can see it now, $425 prowler rammed into oblivion by a $25 aurora...

At that price, it'd better be able to deploy sharks with frikken lasers. Fucking space, laser sharks... yea...
 

Black Sunder

Rock Raiders
Officer
Jun 19, 2014
8,270
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Black_Sunder
I can see it now, $425 prowler rammed into oblivion by a $25 aurora...

At that price, it'd better be able to deploy sharks with frikken lasers. Fucking space, laser sharks... yea...
What do you call a group of TEST Auroras? A Ramming!
 

Gauna

Graphic Goddess
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Nov 1, 2015
374
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Gauna
Good luck @Gauna. Design looks sweet!

Cool or not, I don't believe I will be spending $425 on this one. Not my style. I wanna dig rocks and explore.
Thank you, Mike. You are not alone, I won't buy a expensive ship with shitty stats like Blade or something. I've joined this art contest for fun and sharing CIG my ideas. :wink:
 
Jul 6, 2014
754
894
550
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Salt_Lake
Good luck @Gauna. Design looks sweet!

Cool or not, I don't believe I will be spending $425 on this one. Not my style. I wanna dig rocks and explore.

My $0.02: This stealth style boarding ship would not be implemented if it wasn't going to work in game. Its doable without breaking what we know so far about scanner tech. Here's how:

The US Military currently has radar tech that receives radar waves, processes them, and sends fake waves back to the sender in real time. The fabricated signal shows the radar operator the detected craft as bigger or smaller, and in a location different from where it actually is. No reason why a basic EM or Radar scanner couldn't be fooled by something similar a thousand years from now.

I'm looking forward to seeing it work in game, whenever that may be :slight_smile:
Doesnt SC use both radar and gravatron scanners? I swore they said there was more combat scanners than just radar even now days we have ladar.
 

MikeNificent

Space Marshal
Sep 24, 2016
474
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MikeNificent
Doesnt SC use both radar and gravatron scanners? I swore they said there was more combat scanners than just radar even now days we have ladar.
You're probably right. However, my point is not that one scanner tech or another is what will be or won't be used in SC. Anything we think we might know about that is purely theorycrafting, since it's not real until it's real. What I wanted to convey is that ANY scanner can be fooled (the older ones are harder to fool, but it's still doable).

All scanners work one of two ways. They either a) send out a signal and then receive the changed signal (active; like sonar, radar, ladar), or b) are continually monitoring for external signals (passive; EM, Infrared, "gravitron"). In either case the ship doing the scanning, regardless of method (active or passive), has to at some point receive input. That input is then converted via a fancy-schmancy computerizational device which translates the analog signal received into some kind of digital signal, which then appears on our screens in a format we can readily understand (i.e. a small ship carrying heavy metals, 15k distant, and moving at such and such velocity). Supposing I knew what kinds of scanners were out there looking for me, what's to say I couldn't send out a fake signal to make the computer think what it was seeing was something else?

Modern active scanners would be the easiest to fool, since we know what kind of waves they are emitting, how those waves react to different surfaces/materials, and how the signal is then changed before it returns to the sensors on the ship. It stands to reason that if I knew a Connie Aquila was looking for me, and I knew what types of scanners that ship may have on board, I would know what types of fake signals to send out to have the best shot at making that ship think I'm somewhere/something else, or not there at all.

Older active and passive scanners (like analog Sonar or Visual Scanning without computer enhancement (like a telescope)) would be the toughest to fool, since if it's there you can theoretically see it and hear it. At longer distances however, these get easier to fool because they are not as sensitive as the more modern methods. Example: I could put a piece of cardboard painted like an Idris at 1/5th scale, 5 times closer to you. Your eyes would say, I see an Idris at 15k. Hiding behind said piece of cardboard are 4 Stealth Ships at 3k, ready to sneakify or whatever they feel like doing behind the sign. Far fetched? Yes. Possible? Yes (and yes, I'm sure the scale cardboard paint by numbers Idris and Javelin cutouts will be available in the RSI store for $35 with LTI, so don't worry if you want to give this a shot). Realistically, you would probably see a particle screen with a hologram projected into the particles as a deceptive visual signal, but I like to picture the cardboard signs in space, held in place by the guy (who drew the pre-mission short straw) in EVA on one of the ships.

I could probably think up more examples, but this post is already in TL:DR land. Out of respect for those who's eyes haven't glazed over already, I will stop... now.

P.S. If a schlub like me can put this much thought into scanner tech, the people who are getting paid to do it should be able to hit it out of the park. I'm really looking forward to how scanning and countermeasures are going to work. Imagine finding a jump point, and then deploying a device near the jump point to jumble or block the signals the point puts off, effectively cloaking it from anyone not within visual range, giving those who know where it is more time to get through it first?
 

Pander

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Jan 3, 2015
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Pander22
If you hate the no-airframe design of the Redeemer, you'll likely love the airframe design of the Vanguard. The stats say that in vacuum the Redeemer ought to be the better performer, but in atmosphere the Vanguard will likely be the better choice. They're about the same price and the Redeemer requires more than twice the crew, so hard to compare.

If you compare by firepower over dollars spent, the Redeemer is the best value short of a cap ship. (That FP/$ figure does and should climb as the expense of military ships climbs.) If instead you look at firepower over player positions, which is in many ways a more salient figure for combat comparisons; the Vanguards are all impossible to beat until you again are looking at Cap ships. A Redeemer needs 4 players minimum, and 4 players in any pair of Vanguard could cut a Redeemer to ribbons. So do keep in mind you only get to fill one position and need other players to operate effectively on any of these ships. That being the case, if you want to go Privateer, shoot me a note.

Thanks man I'm actually looking into get a joystick so the vanguard might be one of my top picks just as the fixed guns will become an asset with the stick rather than put me off the ship while using mouse

I am actually looking to do bounty hunting/merc/privateer etc so would be really interested

Thanks for the help mate!
 

MikeNificent

Space Marshal
Sep 24, 2016
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MikeNificent
Whats a "schlub"? *confused*
A "schlub" in my usage (not sure if it's right or not) means layman, amateur, or someone who is not an expert or professional in the field in question.

Edit: found Google's definition, which sort of fits, although it is a bit over critical and self-deprecating (read: apt):

"a talentless, unattractive, or boorish person."
 
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Shadow Reaper

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Jun 3, 2016
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Shadow Reaper
You're probably right. However, my point is not that one scanner tech or another is what will be or won't be used in SC. Anything we think we might know about that is purely theorycrafting, since it's not real until it's real. What I wanted to convey is that ANY scanner can be fooled (the older ones are harder to fool, but it's still doable).

All scanners work one of two ways. They either a) send out a signal and then receive the changed signal (active; like sonar, radar, ladar), or b) are continually monitoring for external signals (passive; EM, Infrared, "gravitron"). In either case the ship doing the scanning, regardless of method (active or passive), has to at some point receive input. That input is then converted via a fancy-schmancy computerizational device which translates the analog signal received into some kind of digital signal, which then appears on our screens in a format we can readily understand (i.e. a small ship carrying heavy metals, 15k distant, and moving at such and such velocity). Supposing I knew what kinds of scanners were out there looking for me, what's to say I couldn't send out a fake signal to make the computer think what it was seeing was something else?

Modern active scanners would be the easiest to fool, since we know what kind of waves they are emitting, how those waves react to different surfaces/materials, and how the signal is then changed before it returns to the sensors on the ship. It stands to reason that if I knew a Connie Aquila was looking for me, and I knew what types of scanners that ship may have on board, I would know what types of fake signals to send out to have the best shot at making that ship think I'm somewhere/something else, or not there at all.

Older active and passive scanners (like analog Sonar or Visual Scanning without computer enhancement (like a telescope)) would be the toughest to fool, since if it's there you can theoretically see it and hear it. At longer distances however, these get easier to fool because they are not as sensitive as the more modern methods. Example: I could put a piece of cardboard painted like an Idris at 1/5th scale, 5 times closer to you. Your eyes would say, I see an Idris at 15k. Hiding behind said piece of cardboard are 4 Stealth Ships at 3k, ready to sneakify or whatever they feel like doing behind the sign. Far fetched? Yes. Possible? Yes (and yes, I'm sure the scale cardboard paint by numbers Idris and Javelin cutouts will be available in the RSI store for $35 with LTI, so don't worry if you want to give this a shot). Realistically, you would probably see a particle screen with a hologram projected into the particles as a deceptive visual signal, but I like to picture the cardboard signs in space, held in place by the guy (who drew the pre-mission short straw) in EVA on one of the ships.

I could probably think up more examples, but this post is already in TL:smile:R land. Out of respect for those who's eyes haven't glazed over already, I will stop... now.

P.S. If a schlub like me can put this much thought into scanner tech, the people who are getting paid to do it should be able to hit it out of the park. I'm really looking forward to how scanning and countermeasures are going to work. Imagine finding a jump point, and then deploying a device near the jump point to jumble or block the signals the point puts off, effectively cloaking it from anyone not within visual range, giving those who know where it is more time to get through it first?
This was a great post! Indeed, very little has been released about how electronic warfare and scanning will work, but there has been a little.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14926-Design-Notes-Electronic-Warfare

You sound like you'd make an ideal Sentinel REO (Rear Equipment Operator). That is what I am looking forward to most. Two Sentinels, four Hoplites, and a Warden is a perfect mix for taking down Polaris. Think about it. . .The Outsiders are holding all sorts of expensive military craft for us.
 
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StarEnigma

Captain
Sep 12, 2016
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StarEnigma
A lot of people base their purchases off of ships, and that's understandable. However, its a pledge system so the actual pledge has absolutely no bearing of ships actual price. It basically boils down to this...how much would you like to pledge today? Oh thank you! Were concentrating on the ships value, in which, CIG has clearly stated, it will go for in game currency, and will be radically lower in value. Think of it as in contribution, it helps me get through. Cause, I know, if I cant afford a ship, Ill get it after the game goes live. Theres a balance each individual has to go through. Monetary, sometimes emotionally, and the fact, were passionate players and have to balance patience, and sometimes, that doesn't go to well. for those that think its an outrage, wait till the game goes live, for those that can do it, go for it brothers! I personally don't want to pledge 425. Id rather pledge little bits at a time. But then, that, is life.
 

Stubieroo

Space Marshal
Nov 9, 2015
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Stubieroo
My strategy to obtain any ship right now (since I can't afford any atm), is to wait till the game comes out. I'll work my ass off piloting my 325A and crewing on ships, save for a crucible and then find and repair abandoned ships, adding to my fleet or selling them off at discounted pricing. If I'm gonna get this ship, that's how it's gonna happen.
 

Dalarast

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Oct 29, 2014
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Dalarast
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