Guns. Good or Bad?

ColdDog · Feb 19, 2018

sigh... Ill spell it out again for those later than I to the conversation....

ColdDog said:
The UK has their own problems, just like America or any other country for that fact.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/terror-uk-timeline-recent-attacks/story?id=47579860

Ok... pound for pound there are more people in the US. In the UK, you've had your incidents... well known or not. What is the population of the UK compared to the US? Let's say 65.64 million (2016) where the US is 325,908,238, (2017) so, let's put on our statics hat... you seem pretty well versed in this activity. You tell me... knowing that the US population is nearly 6x the size of the UK... what is the probability of someone going nuts in the UK vs the US. I do not know why this is rocket science. Also, something that foreigners to the US do not understand... if we let the GB King take away our guns we'd still be under the UK rule... this is a fundamental historical aspect that many US people like me cherish... it comes down to the fact the government will not screw with the population knowing that it is well armed. Many of it see it as a necessary evil... pros outweigh the cons in many peoples minds. By the way... how many people died in WW2?

World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history in absolute terms of total casualties. Over 60 million people were killed, which was about 3% of the 1940 world population (est. 2.3 billion). Statistics of military wounded are available for the major combatants. The tables below give a detailed country-by-country count ...

How many people did the Chinese kill during the Mao Revolution?
Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' Mao Zedong, founder of the People's Republic of China, qualifies as the greatest mass murderer in world history, an expert who had unprecedented access to official Communist Party archives said yesterday.

According to a disturbingly pleasant graphic from Information is Beautiful entitled simply 20th Century Death, communism was the leading ideological cause of death between 1900 and 2000. The 94 million that perished in China, the Soviet Union, North Korea, Afghanistan, and Eastern Europe easily (and tragically) trump the 28 million that died under fascist regimes during the same period.
https://reason.com/blog/2013/03/13/communism-killed-94m-in-20th-century

During the century measured, more people died as a result of communism than from homicide (58 million) and genocide (30 million) put together. The combined death tolls of WWI (37 million) and WWII (66 million) exceed communism’s total by only 9 million.

Now compare that to a Communist revolution in America... people like me who do not agree would be killed, period... that could be millions of children and adults.

This is why many "old school" educated Americans protect gun rights. Seems like socialists like Hitler and communists like Mao and Stalin validate our need to protect our self from the state.

Every life lost is a tragedy... but the world is not a sane place and I am sure we can both agree.

ColdDog · Feb 19, 2018

Vavrik said:
and I suppose that makes @NaffNaffBobFace the winner.

Yep... obviously the winner... lol. Last I looked at we were talking about people... not winning.

I can't help to notice the shallowness and disdain the world has for the US... it makes me SICK as a human.

Who else would have a monkey in a space suit with a US flag and test symbol.

That sends the message people of TEST and Americans are stupid... if I wanted to play your pathetic game.

sum1 · Feb 19, 2018

Vavrik said:
They simply do not understand why Americans seem unwilling and unable to take the steps necessary to protect their children, and instead argue and fume amongst themselves like a bunch of idiots whenever the subject comes up - which lately has been every few days.

I think this is total bull. I don't know any American that does not want to protect our kids, rather it is a battle of two different ideologies that disagree on how to protect our kids.

sum1 · Feb 19, 2018

Here are 7 ways I am all in favor of protecting our kids none of which will infringe on my, or anyone's rights to defend themselves.
https://townhall.com/columnists/kevinmccullough/2018/02/18/how-to-eliminate-school-shootings-overnight-n2450380

ColdDog · Feb 19, 2018

@sum1 everyone knows Russia or China could kick the shit out of the UK and Europe ass without a sweat. Then what keeps them from doing it? The US... yet the UK and Europe spit in our face every opportunity they get. Mark my words... in the next 30 years we will be bailing them out again... just like ww1 and ww2. This generation that mocks the US will regret it.

sum1 · Feb 19, 2018

ColdDog said:
@sum1 everyone knows Russia or China could kick the shit out of the UKs and Europes ass without a sweat. Then what keeps them from doing it? The US... yet the UK and Europe spit in our face every opportunity they get. Mark my words... in the next 30 years we will be bailing them out again... just like ww1 and ww2. This generation that mocks the US will regret it.

I think our generation will soon be tested, whether it is here in the states, or on a distant shore (Mars if Musk has anything to say about it) I dread the day if it comes, but I will be as ready as I can be for it, I just pray we are wrong.

ColdDog · Feb 19, 2018

sum1 said:
I think our generation will soon be tested, whether it is here in the states, or on a distant shore (Mars if Musk has anything to say about it) I dread the day if it comes, but I will be as ready as I can be for it, I just pray we are wrong.

I'm sorry to so harsh... but they (UK, Germany, and Europe in general) need to accept the reality they are not as perfect as the claim to be. I hope I wrong too... but the strategic models suggest otherwise.

A disarmed population of lemmings and metrosexuals... what could be easier.

ColdDog · Feb 19, 2018

sum1 said:
I think our generation will soon be tested, whether it is here in the states, or on a distant shore (Mars if Musk has anything to say about it) I dread the day if it comes, but I will be as ready as I can be for it, I just pray we are wrong.

My generation has already been tested... I was one of the first in for this 16 year war. There are many bad things about war... but a potential invader hates having to combat battle hardened veterans in a unconventional conflict rings terror for the enemy (that is a pro/deterrent for the US).

smeggy · Feb 19, 2018

Personally I think this is a very difficult topic to break down to good/bad. To put it as simple as possible, a gun is a tool but all be it a very powerful one. It is down to the user to determine how that tool is used.

There is truth on all sides, there is most definitely more than one side. As I see it, yes not everyone should have the ability to own a firearm. Someone that has violent history or mental issues that can relate to violent or suicidal tendencies, this powerful tool most likely is too much for them to handle. There is also truth behind the saying of "an armed society is a polite society". With that am I saying that all should have a firearm? No, see the statement before that. The best safety is the mind.

With this being a very powerful tool, I'm not against needed training. Remember a car is a very powerful tool as well, but all states require some training and ability to pass a test. As a motorcycle commuter I see way too many idiots not knowing how to handle what they drive on a daily occurrence (seriously why does some 16yo child need the ability to driver a Suburban if only themselves are going to be in it or a soccer mom in an STR SUV) . Why not something that is much more compact and more powerful? Something that would prove that the user has the ability to control it and maintain it. I know people that are very much against it ( It's my 'Merican right! ), but also know others that own multiple firearms and are for that as well. One is air-guard after being active infantry. He still has his deployment, customized M4. He has to take tests to make sure that he knows how to take care of it and handle it properly. He is also a gunsmith as a hobby, and at his wedding him, the best man, and the groomsmen were carrying their 1911 or 9mm. He understands that it is a military grade weapon and not normally allowed by civilians in Iowa, so the test is the price to pay in order to keep it and use it.

There is no perfect system on handling citizens and firearms as well. If anyone thinks something can be implemented nationwide easily, HA. America is a very large and spread out country and even in this age there are relatively remote areas. As well states have the ability to override federal laws but at a price.

So in short, it is a tool. A VERY powerful tool that can easily be misused. It comes down to the user. The best firearm control is the mind and knowing how to use/care for it.

ColdDog · Feb 19, 2018

smeggy said:
So in short, it is a tool. A VERY powerful tool that can easily be misused. It comes down to the user. The best firearm control is the mind and knowing how to use/care for it.

By the OPs logic they would ban Muslims, Christians, gays, and anything else they felt as undesirable.

sum1 · Feb 19, 2018

I agree with @smeggy that everyone that decides to get a gun should know how to use it, and train with it. What a lot not from the US (and something that changes state to state) For Example where I live I wanted to get a CDW (Consoled deadly weapon) license. To do so I had to set through a day-long course do a written test, a gun range test, and show that I knew how to clean my firearm. Then I send my application to the State office where they made sure I am not a felon or anything, send it to my local office when I could pick it up. This license lets me "hide" my firearm in public, where I am from you can walk with a gun holstered on your hip or the like, (this is called open carry) I am allowed to have it under my shirt or jacket I just have to identify my status if I ever get stopped by the cops so they know I have a gun, and it is hidden. People outside the states may not know how much work is required to do some things with guns. If you have any question I would be more then happy to set aside any myth from fact for those that do not know.

Ezz · Feb 19, 2018

I didn't want to post here again, since I said everything I wanted to say but

ColdDog said:
With these people who do not live in the USA this is all foreign to them. They do not understand why things are not government controlled X... they'd prefer to give their sovereignty to Hitler.

I hope your joking, It's sometimes hard to make out in a thread like this one here. Just because we don't want to give everyone access to guns doesn't mean we want to give the government total control. (BTW Hitler's party was extreme right wing not extreme left wing, don't let the "Socialist" in NSDAP fool you)

ColdDog said:
I fought this battle with net neutrality... now gun control.

In the EU we still have our net neutrality because we don't want to give away control. Very un-american to give away your net neutrality.

ColdDog said:
@sum1 everyone knows Russia or China could kick the shit out of the UK and Europe ass without a sweat. Then what keeps them from doing it? The US... yet the UK and Europe spit in our face every opportunity they get. Mark my words... in the next 30 years we will be bailing them out again... just like ww1 and ww2. This generation that mocks the US will regret it

I really don't think the US is the only thing between us and WW3. But that is going way off topic.

ColdDog said:
I'm sorry to so harsh... but they (UK, Germany, and Europe in general) need to accept the reality they are not as perfect as the claim to be. I hope I wrong too... but the strategic models suggest otherwise.

Noone is saying that any country in the EU is perfect. But regarding mass-shootings and gun violence (the topic of this thread) I think we are in a better position and I don't think it's because America has more insane people as it was mentioned earlier. But you have to try to get the guns away from those insane people. Don't ban guns, but why not make harder background checks and so on, so that it is harder for the black sheep to get weapons like this. Life and politics is not black and white. You have to fine-tune stuff like gun-control.

And just because I'm curious "but the strategic models suggest otherwise" what are you talking about here?

Wolfy · Feb 19, 2018

NaffNaffBobFace said:
Is that a fact?

I'll just go check who the OP was.

I wonder who it was... maybe a Space Kitty?

Who knows?

Wolfy · Feb 19, 2018

NaffNaffBobFace said:
Give me a moment, this thread is 17 pages long it'll take a while to get to the Original Post as I have to wait for each one to load, scroll to the top of the page and then select the next one. I'm getting there. On page 6.

I'm stuck on page 5.

Wolfy · Feb 19, 2018

NaffNaffBobFace said:
Page 2

I don't blame you, the cafe on that page is a wonderful place to stop and enjoy a quick coffee.

Aye, nothing better than a cup or two on a rainy day.

Guns. Good or Bad?

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