Instancing with 50-100 players is out, now 1000 players?

[JackAvalon]

You're on the TEST forums right now, you could also join Discord. In the PU you'll have access to all of the drunk pilots you could ever need. You don't need territory to provide value!

Oh don't worry on that. I love the Test community and I lurk on Discord almost everyday but I was just bringing up a discussion point about a specific SC game mechanic and its effects on large orgs(Test). I really want there to be a section of space that is the "Test Sector". Think about it in terms of business, in SC we know there are going to be mining conglomerates that have rights to certain asteroid belts. If you are a member of said conglomerate then u can mine there. If not then u still can just dont get caught cause the Advocacy might come after you. So why not have the same be true for large orgs. They can lay claim to unclaimed systems or regions and set their own policies there. Whether inclusive or exclusive depends on the org. Like a company they could even be bought out(A larger org either forming an alliance with a smaller one) or removed(hostile takeover). Could this create an us vs them state or one alliance vs another? That's absolutely possible. All I'm saying is that this freedom would allow for some very cool and creative gameplay rather than treating large orgs like a band of nomads(in Test's case a drunken roaming band of misfits ;) ). I do want to see what @Xist can dig up for that CR reference though.

 

[JackAvalon]

I paraphrased liberally.

Generally he has stated many, many times that players should not be allowed to own sections of space.

Also, that npcs would actively seek out any and all valuable resources, and they being 90% of the population, they would actually take a very large percentage of those resources.

Further that if we want to defend a resource, we will have to kill many, many npcs, probably resulting in them placing contracts on us, which if there are sufficient numbers of them, would be really problematic.

All of which left me with the distinct impression that he really did not want us to control space, or resources, at all, which is what he keeps saying.

And finally, one of the beautiful aspects if this game, he has repeatedly stated that the Vanduul can, and will, wipe out any players that are abusing mechanics to play in a way he doesn't like.

Thanks for the info @Xist. I wonder if the 90% NPC rule will apply to unclaimed territories or fringe systems. That would be really weird to see lots of NPC's on the edge of known space. That would be a major immersion breaker I would think. You would want to feel more and more alone the farther you go out from the populated systems.

 

[Lexicon]

All of which left me with the distinct impression that he really did not want us to control space, or resources, at all, which is what he keeps saying.

And finally, one of the beautiful aspects if this game, he has repeatedly stated that the Vanduul can, and will, wipe out any players that are abusing mechanics to play in a way he doesn't like.

I can't say it's really all that enthusing to hear that. You're saying CR basically has an Exterminatus button on his desk, with the only thing dictating whether he pushes it being "whether he thinks you're playing his game correctly." That doesn't really sound like a recipe for emergent gameplay.

If he doesn't want us to control space, maybe he shouldn't have painted the players as space pioneers. Maybe he shouldn't be encouraging us to "leave our mark on the universe," or that we should "Plant [our] flag and reserve [our] corner of Star Citizen". Cuz you know what? I went into this wanting to carve out a little homestead of my own: an asteroid in a belt, a small space station, a portion of a sector, a plot of land on a planet, I don't care, just a home that was mine that wasn't the space equivalent of a wagon. Nothing I've read in any of the official literature has told me that I can't go be a space pioneer, and plenty of the language choices have insinuated that I can. Now here I am, years into development, and people are telling me the owner of the company has said in backlogged forum posts on a huge and constantly-updating forum that we will never own space? And he's willing to take control of the super-powered bad guys to crush anyone who tries?

I really hope that's not the message you're trying to send. I really hope I'm misreading your intent. But that's the picture I'm seeing, and I don't really know if I like it so much.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Nobody can buy Bengals, but pirates can try to steal them from the UEE.

In general, they will be exceedingly rare.

If an org has one, they will probably be under almost constant attack.

Doubtful. All ships are immune to attack when they are in a hangar, and it only stands to reason those that cannot be hangared will have similar protection under some similar circumstance. If orgs had to provide 100+ players in support 24/7 just to own a ship, what would be the point of that ship in game? CIG has been pretty wise thus far as to what will make a satisfying game and I don't think they will let us down with the Bengal. The Outsiders are holding ours for us temporarily, and our task is to be sure we get them before someone else does.

 

[GrammarGestapo]

I really hope this wont be completely the case because gameplay would then consist of mine the minerals before NPCs kill you to constantly having org members Manning massive ships that just sit there unless you are at war. Either way it forces orgs to maintain a warlike stance all the time. This would mean that a player who is a part of a large org then could do very little without the support of said org. This would effectively kill solo gameplay for players who are a part of an org. There has to be peacetime in order to differentiate from wartime otherwise SC becomes COD with ships(shoot first ask later scenarios 100% of the time).

These are just my opinions and I am hopeful that SC will be the best damn space sim ever. I guess I just don't like arbitrary controls placed on large org players for the sake of the smaller org / solo ones.

24/7 is an exaggeration, but it'll be something similar. In EVE, we have a concept known as rage form. It's where a force commander sends out a fleet ping and doctrine, and absolutely everyone drops whatever they are doing and forms up immediately. The fact is, NPC's will be the least of our worries. That said, I suspect that valuable items will have an "invulnerability" and "vulnerable" timer. You're right, if they make them vulnerable 24/7, no one will be able to hold them. However, in order to secure the area they are in, we'll have to be ready to meet enemy fleets at essentially any time, whether they can destroy our defenses or not, having them in our space would totally disrupt our org member's ability to make money and dismantle us that way.


Also.... If we have any form of sovereignty mechanic in place, we'll probably end up shooting every non-blue, hostile or neutral, that comes in. Otherwise, all a hostile player would have to do is open up one of the other characters on their account and spy on us that way. Keep in mind, each account can have like 4 character slots at once, and each character could have different allegiances. This is all theoretical though. The fact is, we have no idea whether we'll have any kind of sovereignty mechanics outside having a persistant capital ship to defend as a base. In a way... that could be cool. Small corps form around their idris, medium sized could form around their javelin, and as the corp grows larger they could graduate from cruiser, to escort carrier, to battle cruiser, to finally bengal carrier.

 

[ZypheREvolved]

It wouldn't surprise m

Doubtful. All ships are immune to attack when they are in a hangar, and it only stands to reason those that cannot be hangared will have similar protection under some similar circumstance. If orgs had to provide 100+ players in support 24/7 just to own a ship, what would be the point of that ship in game? CIG has been pretty wise thus far as to what will make a satisfying game and I don't think they will let us down with the Bengal. The Outsiders are holding ours for us temporarily, and our task is to be sure we get them before someone else does.

I've come to the end of the thread to find a totally different discussion but a good one :)

Yipee on 1000! I think even 500 would ruin the hopes of growth for other space games which I shall not mention.

As for this Bengal business which kind of relates to population sizes because a carrier could face a bigger enemy group. How would a pirating crew manage to take one without damaging it and making it difficult to escape with safely?

Wouldn't they also need to prevent a self-destruction being activated which an NPC would probably trigger?

Let's say pirates did get aboard. They would need be a great boarding team to win the battle, win it quickly before re-inforcements come and be a good enough team to keep the damaged Bengal. So many variables and I never see anyone considering real-life communication. More players (900 more) means more leaks through streaming, players Tweeting what they just seen happening or took part in. Point being news travels fast in the real world and not just in-game.

Good luck to anyone who catches a Bengal because I think they will be a magnet for major trouble when well organized organizations organize an organized response! Grammarly doesn't like that sentence one bit, I think I just crashed the Grammerly server!

 

[thedeadlybutter]

And finally, one of the beautiful aspects if this game, he has repeatedly stated that the Vanduul can, and will, wipe out any players that are abusing mechanics to play in a way he doesn't like.

Oh yeah? COME AT ME VANDUUL

 

[Shadow Reaper]

How would a pirating crew manage to take one without damaging it and making it difficult to escape with safely?

Trade secret. I could tell you but I'd have to kill you.

Naaaaaaa. . .not really. There are many ways each of which requires the game be constructed in very specific ways. Until we know the answers to very important questions, we can't say one approach would work over another. But for instance, you look for situations that form a logical consequence, that places the Bengal's basic security routine aside, such as acting out a pirate attack on another party who is looking for help, which could be a misreport or better, a separate attack on the same NPC forces. When the Bengal's fighter screen investigates you show up with your very recently stollen Genesis, also owned by the same party as the Bengal, and carrying 20 spawning beds and 80 marines. The thing is to get the Genesis first past the fighter screen and then past the Begal's big guns. If she is damaged and life support failing and looking to dock to save innocent lives, you might make a way past the standard protocols that would otherwise blast you to tiny bits. Once that happens it's just fighting NPCs--something we can expect to excel at.

Wouldn't they also need to prevent a self-destruction being activated which an NPC would probably trigger?

I sure hope that is only Vanduul, and I still hope it is prone to interruption by EMP but who knows?

Let's say pirates did get aboard. They would need be a great boarding team to win the battle, win it quickly before re-inforcements come and be a good enough team to keep the damaged Bengal. So many variables and I never see anyone considering real-life communication. More players (900 more) means more leaks through streaming, players Tweeting what they just seen happening or took part in. Point being news travels fast in the real world and not just in-game

As with many MMOs, security will be had through compartmentalization. You work with the smallest team possible, and the safest from familiarity, and restrict info until the last minute to almost everyone involved, and even then you will see ops fail for the sake of some clownish kid who thinks betraying everyone he knows is more "fun" than teamwork.

 

[thedeadlybutter]

fwiw, you're all obsessed with capturing a Bengal, but the real challenge would be a Kingship. in the x-12 lore they wrote the Vanduul would normally self destruct if they felt the ship would be captured.

in addition, its (possibly) the biggest ship in the game, which carriers over a 100 combat ready fighter jets & hundreds of giant aliens inside, plus its at the center of the entire Vanduul horde, and they are willing to self destruct if/when you're about to take the wheel.

also if we take a Vanduul kingship we're not gonna have the entire UEE army chasing us, which sounds much scarier than a single Vanduul horde.

 

[DrunkenTeddy]

fwiw, you're all obsessed with capturing a Bengal, but the real challenge would be a Kingship. in the x-12 lore they wrote the Vanduul would normally self destruct if they felt the ship would be captured.

in addition, its (possibly) the biggest ship in the game, which carriers over a 100 combat ready fighter jets & hundreds of giant aliens inside, plus its at the center of the entire Vanduul horde, and they are willing to self destruct if/when you're about to take the wheel.

also if we take a Vanduul kingship we're not gonna have the entire UEE army chasing us, which sounds much scarier than a single Vanduul horde.

Dammit he's right guys. We need one of these too. Even having them self-destruct because we almost took it would be worth it.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

The Outsiders should have Bengals we can steal.

The thing really is to have a list of what groups are not targets, and if you want access to UEE space on most occasions, you can't be attacking the UEE.

 

[DrunkenTeddy]

The Outsiders should have Bengals we can steal.

The thing really is to have a list of what groups are not targets, and if you want access to UEE space on most occasions, you can't be attacking the UEE.

So we all use alt characters to steal the Bengal, once out of UEE space we swap out the alts for our mains. Problem solved.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

What is CIG policy on multiple accounts? If they don't object then it may well become a new standard to have two accounts, given how they have written moral consequences into the game.

 

[Xist]

What is CIG policy on multiple accounts? If they don't object then it may well become a new standard to have two accounts, given how they have written moral consequences into the game.

They have stated that if you use one account to send money or other assets to a pirate account, both accounts will be flagged as pirates.

If you choose to be a pirate, they want you to be a pirate.

 

[maynard]

They have stated that if you use one account to send money or other assets to a pirate account, both accounts will be flagged as pirates.

If you choose to be a pirate, they want you to be a pirate.

sounds like an opportunity to make an in-game career as a trusted third party/money launderer

 

[Xist]

I think it's ok to have a trade network, where each person makes a cut.

They don't want to stop you from getting items, they just want to make sure it's expensive to do so.

The same is true for law abiding citizens who want black market items. It will be more expensive for them to get those than it will be for pirates.

 

[thedeadlybutter]

Can we stash money in crates?

"Drop" the crate in middle of no where, accidentally of course.

Log in with other account, pickup said crate.

Profit.