Let's Talk Suit Thrusters

[NomadicHavoc]

My understanding is that CIG plans to have limited suit thruster capability for navigating the vacuum of space. Some suits may have greater capabilities than others. I love this idea as it forces you to make decisions that have costs/benefits.

But, would you also like to be able to use this functionality within the gravity field of a planet or moon? For example, you could activate your suit thruster to break your fall from a great height (i.e., jumping from a low flying drop ship, or off the roof of a building/tower). You could also use the suit thrusters to jump greater heights - maybe 1 or 2 stories. Perhaps using these suit thrusters in high gravity would consume more resources faster vs low gravity vs no gravity. So, you may want to use the feature somewhat sparingly depending on the situation. This could allow for more dynamic and fast gameplay, or allow for greater puzzle solving capabilities (accessing areas that may be difficult or impossible to access otherwise).

I can only imagine that if ground combat becomes more common with combat vehicles/mechs, giving infantry some more agility might make the play session more exciting. Something more akin to TitanFall, but without the wall running.

 

[Richard Bong]

Being able to use a suit as a braking mechanism would depend on the design of your suit thrusters.
In space thrusters don't need much to push a person around.

For what you're looking for, it sounds like Heinlein's Starship Troopers Marauder power armor. The standard issue for all members of the Mobile Infantry. (The book, not the movies.) This is the suit from which most power armor is derived from.

While I like the idea of fighting "on the bounce" and doing orbital insertions, this isn't the direction CR appears to want to go.

If you have a squad kitted out as MI, there would be no need for ground vehicles. You don't need dropships, only pick up ships. Etc.

 

[Talonsbane]

This is what came to mind when I read this thread.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

If we are looking at it from an IRL perspective I've got a feeling the thrust from the NASA Manned Manoeuvring Unit (one of the only comparisons to our under-suits) thrusters were not very powerful and only useful in Zero G.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manned_Maneuvering_Unit

However SC is 930 years in the future, imagine the added edge being able to provide a few more pounds of push would give you when throwing yourself from points of cover to other points of cover... any edge is a good edge...

You've made me think though, with limited EVA capabilities it seems like this'll give the hov bikes (they have spaceflight capability) a boost in popularity - the specialist X1 garage on the 400i makes actual sense now.

- EDIT -

Just found the tech specs of the MMU, it has 7.5 Newtons of thrust per nozzle and 24 nozzles but I presume they don't all face in the same direction as it's a manoeuvring rig so some will face to the side, some forward etc... a newton is the force it takes to accelerate 1kg at 1 meter per second - but the MMU's Delta-V change in velocity rate is 20 meters a second so I'm going to assume this means it has a thrust output in one direction of something like 20N in zero G...

Capability of the manned maneuvering unit to support satellite servicing operations - NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Features, capabilities, and projected performances and missions of the Manned Maneuvering Unit (MMU) are described. A zero gravity, autonomous, six degree of freedom mobility system using gaseous nitrogen for propulsion, the MMU is equipped with jets for attitude and rotational control, 24...

ntrs.nasa.gov

...pretending I know what any of that means... here is some context on how many Newtons that is:

"f you weigh 70 kg (11 stone or 154 lbs), you’ll exert about 700 N of force on the ground just stood still. "

How many newtons of force can an average human exert? – Sage-Answers

sage-answers.com

Added to that this information on how much energy is used overcoming air-resistance when running:

Does Drafting Help In Running?

It does, which explains why it's so hard to lead a middle-distance race from gun to tape.

www.runnersworld.com

"The energy cost of overcoming air resistance on a calm day outdoor was calculated to be 7.8% for sprinting (10 m/s) "

So assuming our EVA suit thrusters provide similar performance to the MMU, 20N, they might not provide much more benefit than overcoming air resistance at low speeds we'd be moving at and won't be enough to overcome our own gravity and give us super-jumps... On Earth or similar 1G planets.

On a moon like Cellin with low atmosphere and low gravity, those thrusters might just be enough to turn us in to superheros!

 

[Richard Bong]

If we are looking at it from an IRL perspective I've got a feeling the thrust from the NASA Manned Manoeuvring Unit (one of the only comparisons to our under-suits) thrusters were not very powerful and only useful in Zero G.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manned_Maneuvering_Unit

However SC is 930 years in the future, imagine the added edge being able to provide a few more pounds of push would give you when throwing yourself from points of cover to other points of cover... any edge is a good edge...

You've made me think though, with limited EVA capabilities it seems like this'll give the hov bikes (they have spaceflight capability) a boost in popularity - the specialist X1 garage on the 400i makes actual sense now.

- EDIT -

Just found the tech specs of the MMU, it has 7.5 Newtons of thrust per nozzle and 24 nozzles but I presume they don't all face in the same direction as it's a manoeuvring rig so some will face to the side, some forward etc... a newton is the force it takes to accelerate 1kg at 1 meter per second - but the MMU's Delta-V change in velocity rate is 20 meters a second so I'm going to assume this means it has a thrust output in one direction of something like 20N in zero G...

Capability of the manned maneuvering unit to support satellite servicing operations - NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

Features, capabilities, and projected performances and missions of the Manned Maneuvering Unit (MMU) are described. A zero gravity, autonomous, six degree of freedom mobility system using gaseous nitrogen for propulsion, the MMU is equipped with jets for attitude and rotational control, 24...

ntrs.nasa.gov

...pretending I know what any of that means... here is some context on how many Newtons that is:

"f you weigh 70 kg (11 stone or 154 lbs), you’ll exert about 700 N of force on the ground just stood still. "

How many newtons of force can an average human exert? – Sage-Answers

sage-answers.com

Added to that this information on how much energy is used overcoming air-resistance when running:

Does Drafting Help In Running?

It does, which explains why it's so hard to lead a middle-distance race from gun to tape.

www.runnersworld.com

"The energy cost of overcoming air resistance on a calm day outdoor was calculated to be 7.8% for sprinting (10 m/s) "

So assuming our EVA suit thrusters provide similar performance to the MMU, 20N, they might not provide much more benefit than overcoming air resistance at low speeds we'd be moving at and won't be enough to overcome our own gravity and give us super-jumps... On Earth or similar 1G planets.

On a moon like Cellin with low atmosphere and low gravity, those thrusters might just be enough to turn us in to superheros!

Average Infantryman, with light gear, you're looking at around 100 KG or more, at least in the US.
The biggest issue you run into is reaction mass. The second is power.
From a real world perspective it isn't really a practical consideration with anything we know about.

Now in Star Citizen, one of the bits of handwavium (You always need some in Sci-Fi) is artificial gravity.
Are you limited to positive gravity? Based on the hover bikes the answer appears to be no.
How small can you make a unit? Can it, say, clip to a belt? Your muscles or the artificial muscles in a power armor suit could then be your propulsion.

Personal AG fields could give us the effect. :) This would be in addition to, not the same system as, thruster packs.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Average Infantryman, with light gear, you're looking at around 100 KG or more, at least in the US.
The biggest issue you run into is reaction mass. The second is power.
From a real world perspective it isn't really a practical consideration with anything we know about.

Now in Star Citizen, one of the bits of handwavium (You always need some in Sci-Fi) is artificial gravity.
Are you limited to positive gravity? Based on the hover bikes the answer appears to be no.
How small can you make a unit? Can it, say, clip to a belt? Your muscles or the artificial muscles in a power armor suit could then be your propulsion.

Personal AG fields could give us the effect. :) This would be in addition to, not the same system as, thruster packs.

It might make that light armour worth it after all

From somewhere overhead: "No, Anakin, i have the high ground! Suddenly, GRENADES!"

 

[NomadicHavoc]

Being able to use a suit as a braking mechanism would depend on the design of your suit thrusters.
In space thrusters don't need much to push a person around.

That was my thought as well. Flight suit thrusters could be on a bell curve. Flight suits could have very little thrust reserves, light armor could have excellent thrust reserves, medium armor could have moderate thrust reserves, and heavy armor could have no thrust reserves. But in addition to how much reserve the suit holds, those same reserves could be consumed very slowly in space, slowly in low gravity, moderately in medium gravity, and quickly in heavy gravity.

So, in my mind suit thrusters could solve a number of issues. If you need to eject from your ship the suit thrusters on you flight suit could save your life - but you would need to time when to deploy the thruster capability correctly as you have a very limited supply. When your thruster 'tank' is empty...it's empty. Likewise, even though you may have more thruster supply in light and medium armor it is still limited and you'd have choices to make on when and how to deploy. More lightly armored citizens may stand more of a chance against heavy armor citizens as they can run faster but also perhaps evade easier with use of their limited thruster supply.

While I like the idea of fighting "on the bounce" and doing orbital insertions, this isn't the direction CR appears to want to go.

If you have a squad kitted out as MI, there would be no need for ground vehicles. You don't need dropships, only pick up ships. Etc.

I agree, I don't think that CIG is moving this direction...but who knows. I thought about how this might limit the purpose of the drop ship as well. I guess using the system I described above, a drop ship may have purpose for dropping off heavily armored marines as they don't have suit thrusters. But also, light and medium armored marines could have more tactical options. If you want to have a fast incursion perhaps you could drop from a low altitude. If you want to reserve your suit thrusters, then maybe you'd want to touch down in the drop ship.

 

[Richard Bong]

It might make that light armour worth it after all

From somewhere overhead: "No, Anakin, i have the high ground! Suddenly, GRENADES!"

Jump pack, Bolt Pistol and Chain Sword.

 

[Aramsolari]

Jump pack, Bolt Pistol and Chain Sword.

“Strike from the Sky, Brothers!”

 

[Richard Bong]

“Strike from the Sky, Brothers!”

Yes I have all three of the Dawn of War 2 and lots of the DLC. :)

I also have way too much money in 40K miniatures, to include a reinforced company of Dark Angles.

 

[Mudhawk]

Yes I have all three of the Dawn of War 2 and lots of the DLC. :)

I also have way too much money in 40K miniatures, to include a reinforced company of Dark Angles.

Ya hear that boys? Summone 'ere beggin' for a WAAAGH!!
--cough--
Okay back to topic.
I doubt there's much to be gained gamewise from jumping around excessively groundside with an EVA suite.
Well if Starfield is an indication it gets real stale real fast.
I would love if the suites and/or armors had a way of breaking your fall though.
It's always a bummer ejecting from your plane in atmosphere without any kind of parachute.

 

[Richard Bong]

Ya hear that boys? Summone 'ere beggin' for a WAAAGH!!
--cough--
Okay back to topic.
I doubt there's much to be gained gamewise from jumping around excessively groundside with an EVA suite.
Well if Starfield is an indication it gets real stale real fast.
I would love if the suites and/or armors had a way of breaking your fall though.
It's always a bummer ejecting from your plane in atmosphere without any kind of parachute.

I have a nice size Ork army too, though point wise it's probably 25% of the size of my Marine army. :)

Assault Marines and Storm Boyz use the ability to close the distance and get into hand to hand range. The Mobile Infantry use the ability to limit exposure to return fire while advancing on an objective, and to keep the range open. The Honorverse and Traveller use it strictly for mobility and not for direct use in combat. Most games and franchises don't use it though. Do we need it in Star Citizen? No.

Parachutes depend on atmospheres. Gravchutes (Imperial Guard use them and they are used in Traveller) are probably better choices. But yes, something needs to be done for that.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Clark Defense Systems has been listed as making a jet pack for 7 or 8 years now. Just have to hope it comes in game. That is the same provider for the UEE marines armor.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Ya hear that boys? Summone 'ere beggin' for a WAAAGH!!
--cough--
Okay back to topic.
I doubt there's much to be gained gamewise from jumping around excessively groundside with an EVA suite.
Well if Starfield is an indication it gets real stale real fast.
I would love if the suites and/or armors had a way of breaking your fall though.
It's always a bummer ejecting from your plane in atmosphere without any kind of parachute.

Grief yes we've been waiting for parachutes from the moment moon/planet surfaces became a thing!