Like it or not, Firefly is returning.

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Maybe Star Trek: TNG. Battlestar Galactica, Dr. Who, Tron, Dawn of the Dead, Evil Dead/Army of Darkness, Godzilla (the Peter Jackson version), The Man with the Iron Mask, D&D 5e, Starhunter 2300 was much better than its immediately prior predecessor Starhunter--better cast. (That was just before Whedon wrote Firefly.) There must be others, but its still an extremely short list compared to the number of reboots.

In my eyes Star Trek TNG was a continuation rather than a reboot, when you compare Picard to Kirk its two separate people whereas Old Kirk Vs New Kirk is the same person and that reeboot seems to have stalled for the moment...

I think you have a point with Battlestar Galactica, not familiar with the others but great example in BSG that was definately a reeboot.

 

[Aramsolari]

In my eyes Star Trek TNG was a continuation rather than a reboot, when you compare Picard to Kirk its two separate people whereas Old Kirk Vs New Kirk is the same person and that reeboot seems to have stalled for the moment...

I think you have a point with Battlestar Galactica, not familiar with the others but great example in BSG that was definately a reeboot.

TNG was definitely a standalone continuation....an instalment if you will of a great franchise.

You had guest stars like DeForest Kelley, James Doohan, and of course Leonard Nimoy but TNG was very much it's own animal.

Again...as long as you follow the rules of the 'Universe', you're free to do whatever you want. The TNG writers took that to heart and wrote in my opinion, some of the best teleplays in Primetime Television ("The Measure of a Man", "The Best of Both Worlds I & II", "The Inner Light", "Darmok", etc). I know some folks here will disagree but TNG is in my view superior to TOS and well....Picard > Kirk any day lol.

 

[Raven_King]

I can't think of any reeboots which have gone on to have a better run/life than the original? I'd appreciate some examples!

I agree with most of @Shadow Reaper's list, though I haven't seen them all. I also agree more reboots fail than succeed, but if we're allowed to look beyond space-themed stuff, two outstanding successes are Daniel Craig's Bond (two and a half very good movies out of five, and the others aren't exactly duds) and Christopher Nolan & Christian Bale's Batman trilogy (two and a half out of three maybe). Those were way better than any previous version.

I'd take Tom Holland as Spiderman over Tobey Maguire or Andrew Garfield, and those were basically all reboots.

 

[KuruptU4Fun]

I hate what Disney does to things I hold dear

Keeps them alive? Marvel filed for bankruptcy back in the 90's and DC has no real offerings that do well story wise past their Animation division. WB doesn't know what to do with DC because they have to climb the wall that Marvel has established.

Star Wars? Well gotta say GL and ILM knew when the prequels were out they were on their last legs. The only good things coming out were the books and In order to "re-invigorate" the line turned all the books into Legacy and had to pick and choose what made it into their verse.

I get it, they do not do the things that would have sparked our imaginations as kids compared to what they're doing today. But they're after our kids now, it's their target demographic.

 

[Richard Bong]

As long as they front out the cash and leave the filmmakers to their devices, things generally work out well.

Things tend to fall apart when you have too many people sticking their fingers in the pie. Big studios/networks are notorious for interfering during production. If a show lists half a dozen names as Producers/Executive Producers....it's probably gonna suck.

Disney buys a property then waters it down and runs the same formula nonsense over and over. In the past Disney's best asset was talent acquisition. Actors and actresses that became household names got their start at Disney, like Julie Andrews and Kurt Russell. Picking the right big name for the right role in later movies. Today? Even that has gotten lazy.

Lately it has been recycling "woke" themes and destroying the heroes most of us grew up with. Then they blame the fans when the story, characters and/or actor/actress don't resonate with the fans and the movie flops.

 

[Aramsolari]

I agree with most of @Shadow Reaper's list, though I haven't seen them all. I also agree more reboots fail than succeed, but if we're allowed to look beyond space-themed stuff, two outstanding successes are Daniel Craig's Bond (two and a half very good movies out of five, and the others aren't exactly duds) and Christopher Nolan & Christian Bale's Batman trilogy (two and a half out of three maybe). Those were way better than any previous version.

I'd take Tom Holland as Spiderman over Tobey Maguire or Andrew Garfield, and those were basically all reboots.

I’ll argue that Bond, Batman, and Spider-Man are IP behemoths that will always be in production as long as people continue to watch films. These are heavyweights of pop culture known all over the World. They’ve brought in hundreds if not billions of dollars over the decades and don’t look like stopping.

Firefly on the other hand is a much lesser known property that somehow still has a cult following 20 years after the original show’s broadcast.

What I’m trying to say is…..difficult comparisons lol

 

[Richard Bong]

The Mandalorian worked because it wasn't too reverent to the larger Star Wars IP on a whole. Barely any references to the more famous figures of the Star Wars universe or even famous events. Just the gunslinger/bounty hunter trope in the flesh in what is basically a Scifi Western. It's a success because it brought in new characters (sprinkled with some cameos) that the fans ended up loving yet still respected the rules of the Star Wars Universe.

The Mandalorian works because it is well written, the characters are developed properly and well acted, and it gives the fans what they want, in a familiar backdrop. It uses, instead of abuses, the rich lore of the franchise.

 

[KuruptU4Fun]

Firefly on the other hand is a much lesser known property that somehow still has a cult following 20 years after the original show’s broadcast.

What I’m trying to say is…..difficult comparisons lol

‘Babylon 5’ Reboot in Development at The CW From Original Series Creator J. Michael Straczynski

A "Babylon 5" reboot is in development at The CW, Variety has learned.

variety.com

 

[White Lando]

Keeps them alive? Marvel filed for bankruptcy back in the 90's and DC has no real offerings that do well story wise past their Animation division. WB doesn't know what to do with DC because they have to climb the wall that Marvel has established.

Star Wars? Well gotta say GL and ILM knew when the prequels were out they were on their last legs. The only good things coming out were the books and In order to "re-invigorate" the line turned all the books into Legacy and had to pick and choose what made it into their verse.

I get it, they do not do the things that would have sparked our imaginations as kids compared to what they're doing today. But they're after our kids now, it's their target demographic.

Are you happy with what Disney did with the Star Wars sequels?

 

[KuruptU4Fun]

Are you happy with what Disney did with the Star Wars sequels?

Honestly I think they could have done better yes, however my thought process of how SW would end wasn't far off from what they did.

Let me expand on that. I read a lot of the books, and I mean a lot of them. At the end of Return of the Jedi there was no conflict in the galaxy that could match the Empire, in the books it was pretty much the same, small pockets of the remnants of the Empire even including the Emperor being cloned if memory serves. It wasn't until I read the books on the Yuuzhan Vong coming in from another galaxy that would truly rival the New Republic, however that total story arch was 19 books long, no way they'd get the green light to make something movie that big at the time.

In the first couple of chapters from the beginning of those books Chewie died saving the rest of them. So I knew that if there were additional movies someone in the group would have had to die to propel a storyline. I just never thought it would be Han, and when it was I actually cried and explained how much it affected me because he was my hero to my son at the theater.

After 10-15 years between movies and reading those books it wasn't hard to figure out the next set of movies would have to involve their kids as the major characters. I already knew about Jace, Jaina and Ben as their kids.

 

[White Lando]

Honestly I think they could have done better yes, however my thought process of how SW would end wasn't far off from what they did.

Let me expand on that. I read a lot of the books, and I mean a lot of them. At the end of Return of the Jedi there was no conflict in the galaxy that could match the Empire, in the books it was pretty much the same, small pockets of the remnants of the Empire even including the Emperor being cloned if memory serves. It wasn't until I read the books on the Yuuzhan Vong coming in from another galaxy that would truly rival the New Republic, however that total story arch was 19 books long, no way they'd get the green light to make something that big at the time.

In the first couple of chapters from the beginning of those books Chewie died saving the rest of them. So I knew that if there were additional movies someone in the group would have had to die to propel a storyline. I just never thought it would be Han, and when it was I actually cried and explained how much it affected me because he was my hero to my son at the theater.

After 10-15 years between movies and reading those books it wasn't hard to figure out the next set of movies would have to involve their kids as the major characters. I already knew about Jace, Jaina and Ben as their kids.

I'd argue that it was a complete train wreck. Some of the worst plots and subplots ever conceived.

 

[KuruptU4Fun]

I'd argue that it was a complete train wreck. Some of the worst plots and subplots ever conceived.

I wouldn't disagree with that argument either, the end plot was given away quickly in the first movie.

Ultimately Disney took a short term hit in order to achieve a much bigger picture with the franchise as a whole as we've seen. Disney knew they were going to make Disney+ a thing likely long before they bought Marvel and SW, now they're making a much bigger profit than if they had left SW with George Lucas and ILM ever knew was possible with the franchise.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

The Mandalorian works because it is well written, the characters are developed properly and well acted, and it gives the fans what they want, in a familiar backdrop. It uses, instead of abuses, the rich lore of the franchise.

I have no problem placing blame squarely upon Kathleen Kennedy for shitting on the fans in order to support her post-modernist ideology. It is what philosopher and intellectual historian Steven Hicks calls "third stage", where post modernists are actually seeking compensatory justice. She believes as the product of the white patriarchy, Luke Skywalker should be denegrated and sacrificed on the alter of justice, because now it is time for the historically less prominent voices of women, and others. The goal is not equality, it is compensation. In order to get compensated, women deserve the stronger voices of the past not only muted, but ravaged. Watch the short vid linked and I think you'll agree. BTW, Hicks is not talking about film specifically, and what he is saying pertians more broadly to all art in post modernist culture.

I'm not a Hicks worshipper, but he is probably the leading intellectual historian of our age, and I think he got this all completely correct. This whole dynamic is the natural result of skepticism run arwry. It's is intended to be a tool, not a world view; and when it is turned into the latter it leaves people very screwed up.

Kennedy choose to shit all over Luke Skywalker very deliberately. The important question to answer is "why?" Hicks is entirely correct about the why. It is plain that the tallent and insight exists to make great films in any genre. When someone like Disney literally disrespects and harms the work of others, at the cost of hundreds of millions of dollars out of their own pocket, you should ask why. Why did Kennedy shit all over Luke Skywalker? Well this at the link above is exactly why, and its why we see rioting in the streets as well. It's not hard to understand. Take five minutes.

I'm deeply disappointed Disney rehired Kennedy and expect she will shit all over another property next. I think they gave her the Willow reboot. Poor Madmartigan. Oh. Ooops. They wrote Madmartigan out. Hicks is right again.

 

[Han Burgundy]

I see this going much like how Netflix's Cowboy Beebop show. A soulless cash grab that has none of the feel, soul, or story of the original. Just that sweet tasty IP. The only way around that eventuality is focus the story on completely different characters within the same existing universe (Ala Luke showing up in the Mandalorian as opposed to giving him his own show)

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Kennedy is still the overall head honcho at Lucasfilm though and therefore the boss of Filloni and Favreau. She wasn't replaced more as she willingly relinquished more creative control to Filloni.

That's not true. When Filloni and Favreau took over they told Kennedy what she was not allowed to do with the new StarWars story she was working. She was planning to make a female uber-jedi--more powerful than all others--and F&F told her no. She has apparently lost that project now too.

Perhaps Carano will return...or not. Either way, she really ought to be more mindful about her social network activity. My money is that she won't be back. Her past outbursts aside......her more recent views on Twitter about Covid19 make things ahem....complicated.

Aww. Now you've gone back to sounding all squisshy and unreasonable. . .even a little dopey. You are misrepresenting the situation and mischaracterizing Carano for ideologiogical reasons, clearly demonstrating your inability to see the situation clearly. For the record--Carano did not post ANYTHING remotely like an outburst, nor did she post anything caustic, nor in any way remarkable save that it was not leftist propaganda. The post that got her punted was a simple and sincere observation about how denigration works, and Kennedy found it too close to home. It is Kennedy who's neck the fans have been calling for and Kennedy who got crazy, ignoring her employer's direct instructions to minimize the fallout of letting Carano go and firing her publically for violating the Woke Immorality Program. Kennedy was guilty of the outburst, not Carano. You have your story COMPLETELY BACKWARD.

The fans are behind Carano and want to see Kennedy lynched ever since Last Jedi, and that's a fact. That's why she was replaced by F&F and no longer works on any Star Wars material.

I would just call to your attention, it was you a week or two ago doubting whether the censorship and cancel culture of today is really as bad as the Red Scare of the fifties. You don't see it because you are a part of it. You judge. You play jury. You are perfectly ready to punish based upon your ideological perversions. You are the Red Scare of this decade. It isn't someone else. Think on your slander against someone you know nothing about save that she is not your woke clone.

 

[KuruptU4Fun]

I see this going much like how Netflix's Cowboy Beebop show. A soulless cash grab that has none of the feel, soul, or story of the original. Just that sweet tasty IP. The only way around that eventuality is focus the story on completely different characters within the same existing universe (Ala Luke showing up in the Mandalorian as opposed to giving him his own show)

Will they really learn from CB though? Lost In Space was a pop-culture TV show and they turned it into an interesting and enjoyable series.

Molly Parker, Taylor Russell and Mina Sundwall were all pretty easy on the eyes... lol

 

[Raven_King]

That’s a bit much @Shadow Reaper. This thread was about a Firefly reboot. No need to be unpleasant to each other, we’re just airing opinions. Wouldn’t it be strange if we all agreed about everything?

 

[Aramsolari]

That's not true. When Filloni and Favreau took over they told Kennedy what she was not allowed to do with the new StarWars story she was working. She was planning to make a female uber-jedi--more powerful than all others--and F&F told her no. She has apparently lost that project now too.

And you know all this....because? Were you there? Was 'Mike Zeroh' there?

If there was truly a power struggle. A dispute of creative differences if you will, one of the individuals in this triumvirate would have left already. The gang's still all present and accounted for.

The fans are behind Carano and want to see Kennedy lynched ever since Last Jedi, and that's a fact.

Hmm I consider myself a Star Wars fan. I don't want to see Kennedy 'lynched' lol.

That's why she was replaced by F&F and no longer works on any Star Wars material.

First of all, she was responsible for Filoni and Favreau's hiring. Secondly, she's still listed as an Executive Producer on pretty much all the Star Wars TV shows including the most recent one. The Book of Boba Fett. She's still firmly in charge.

I would just call to your attention, it was you a week or two ago doubting whether the censorship and cancel culture of today is really as bad as the Red Scare of the fifties. You don't see it because you are a part of it. You judge. You play jury.

I'm a film technician (Who has zero creative/executive input) who likes to have friendly discussions about pop culture stuff I like online on a fucking video game forum of all places. I'm a what now?

You are perfectly ready to punish based upon your ideological perversions. You are the Red Scare of this decade. It isn't someone else. Think on your slander against someone you know nothing about save that she is not your woke clone.

She (Carano) was fired by Disney/Lucasfilm and despite online rumors, hasn't been invited back. Perhaps she will, we really don't know. If she does, I'll be happy for her because I think she did a great job the first time around and deserves a second chance. That being said she'll need to abide by the policies set up by Disney/Lucasfilm just like any of us have to for ANY company we work for.

I've said this before and I'll say this again. None of us know the inner workings of Studios/Networks. Hell I'm probably the closest in this community since I'm in the industry, have met Disney/ILM types and have actually worked with some of the actors (I've worked with Ming-Na Wen countless of times) involved in these projects. Even then I know absolutely FUCK all because these guys don't talk. None of us do. I don't even really tell people what I work on UNTIL the show's done. You know NDAs that you have to sign when you beta test video games? We have our names watermarked right over our NDAs, scripts, and daily sides. That's how serious this is.

The simple truth us....ALL of us are speculating here. You, Me, the other guys here, Mike Zeroh, etc. Don't get your knickers in a twist over stuff that may or may not be true. Have fun but don't take it too seriously.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

We did fine for a bunch of posts until someone started slandering others and making snide comments about unauthorized thinking. Call the covid police. Arrest someone quickly! It is problematic others hold these views. They should not be allowed to exist!

Every time a crazed post-modern, anti-liberal wretch offers these toxic views that silencing the majority is required, and that majority sit quietly and pander to the infants instead of calling them on their evil, that evil grows.

It is not okay to snidely offer someone has unauthorized views. These fucking fascist comments need to stop, and the out and out lies deserve to be brought to light.

Carano should simply sue Disney for wrongful termination. Firing people for their politics is illegal and rationalizing it the way it has been done here is morally bankrupt behavior.

I count it a personal failure but have set aramsolari on ignore so we have no more conversation. Let me just say in parting this discussion, when you see people chastise and sneer over others who think differently, ask different questions and offer different solutions , you should hesitate. There is for instance no single science position on covid. Science does not have an orthodox position. Science is a social process of questioning and seeking answers.

When some snide snivler tempts you to judge someone for daring to question, they are treating you as a drone to be reigned in, controlled and abused. It’s a fantastically evil activity you should not allow.

 

[Aramsolari]

We did fine for a bunch of posts until someone started slandering others and making snide comments about unauthorized thinking. Call the covid police. Arrest someone quickly! It is problematic others hold these views. They should not be allowed to exist!

Every time a crazed post-modern, anti-liberal wretch offers these toxic views that silencing the majority is required, and that majority sit quietly and pander to the infants instead of calling them on their evil, that evil grows.

It is not okay to snidely offer someone has unauthorized views. These fucking fascist comments need to stop, and the out and out lies deserve to be brought to light.

Carano should simply sue Disney for wrongful termination. Firing people for their politics is illegal and rationalizing it the way it has been done here is morally bankrupt behavior.

You're calling my comments....err Fascist? Godwin much?

Oh-Kay.