Looks like the next concept is an Aegis interceptor or racer
- Thread starter Montoya
- Start date
Ignore the ship matrix, it's been wrong for as long as I can remember.
CIG just published the Peregine's numbers there today, and they are already wrong? Or do you mean the M-50 has been improved over its original numbers?
For reasons completely inexplicable in our universe, the ship matrix has never been accurate. Current patch information can be and is mined by the folks who maintain Erkul and Spviewer, with each tool having a slightly different focus.
As to long term intent.. who tf knows. So many game concepts have changed over the years it's a fools bet as to where we'll end up.
Still, I'm here cause it's the best ride in the park right now :)
Yep!!
It is so consistently bad that I've come to think of it as some kind of weird marketing ploy.
The faster Sabre variant... in fact it transition so fast from a new ship to a new LTI token...
The only reason for this ship to exist is if you need to transport ship shield form A to B: in NAV you don't have shields, and in SCM this thing doesn't have weapons...
At this point you can just strip the components and sell them: they are just a waste of space no matter how you look at it.
The only reason for this ship to exist is if you need to transport ship shield form A to B: in NAV you don't have shields, and in SCM this thing doesn't have weapons...
At this point you can just strip the components and sell them: they are just a waste of space no matter how you look at it.
Indeed the Ship Matrix may not be perfect, but minor differences in numbers are a bit moot. The conclusions about the Sabre Peregrine afforded by relative ship comparisons there remain the same: Other than its sharp looks, the Peregrine's only distinctive feature is its superior afterburner acceleration on straightaway runs. CIG indicates the same in the Sabre Peregine Q&A:
As is, I'm trying hard to want this ship, but don't see a need. IMHO the Peregrine would have been better positioned as a fast 'recon' ship than as a medium-sized racer. I'd have picked up a medium-sized recon ship with enhanced speed, enhanced sensors, and stealth (the latter two of which the Peregrine lacks). But I guess the Raven is intended to cover that role.
Q&A: Aegis Sabre Peregrine - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42
Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.
robertsspaceindustries.com
As is, I'm trying hard to want this ship, but don't see a need. IMHO the Peregrine would have been better positioned as a fast 'recon' ship than as a medium-sized racer. I'd have picked up a medium-sized recon ship with enhanced speed, enhanced sensors, and stealth (the latter two of which the Peregrine lacks). But I guess the Raven is intended to cover that role.
Last edited:
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
People keep saying this ship is useless but I would point out we don’t know that. So in the event someone here has never heard me mention. . .
Scan rate is a linear function of the max speed of a ship unpowered, times the quadratic (squared) function of its scan radius. We don’t have scan radii published for any size radar (sensors) so we can’t compare ships with different size scan. However, we do know this ship has the highest speed, so it should make a decent scout. Scouts don’t need to use their guns. They can run away.
Stealth makes a decent scout. Stealth recon is a super practical function for any large military ship or group. All military vessels from the Idris class on up should deploy scouts. That is a much more critical function than flying a couple fighters for defense. Recon is always considered first priority by military planners. Gamers ignore this at their peril.
So just saying, in drift with engines actually off, the 5.8 IR won’t show as that. It’ll show close to zero. So this 20% boost in speed translates to a 20% boost in scan, and this ship is fast enough to outrun the Vanduul. Most ships are not.
So no, not useless. Pretty good scout ship. We can’t compare it yet against the S2 scouts, but it’s a serious choice until we know better.
Scan rate is a linear function of the max speed of a ship unpowered, times the quadratic (squared) function of its scan radius. We don’t have scan radii published for any size radar (sensors) so we can’t compare ships with different size scan. However, we do know this ship has the highest speed, so it should make a decent scout. Scouts don’t need to use their guns. They can run away.
Stealth makes a decent scout. Stealth recon is a super practical function for any large military ship or group. All military vessels from the Idris class on up should deploy scouts. That is a much more critical function than flying a couple fighters for defense. Recon is always considered first priority by military planners. Gamers ignore this at their peril.
So just saying, in drift with engines actually off, the 5.8 IR won’t show as that. It’ll show close to zero. So this 20% boost in speed translates to a 20% boost in scan, and this ship is fast enough to outrun the Vanduul. Most ships are not.
So no, not useless. Pretty good scout ship. We can’t compare it yet against the S2 scouts, but it’s a serious choice until we know better.
I see the Peregrine as a being a medium-sized racer good for straightaways. But maybe that's about it given that it has no guns / no scanner improvements?
I'm curious what you feel makes it a "serious choice" as a scout? Its afterburner speed? I guess that's something. But it doesn't look like it has an advanced radar/scanner package? Are you saying that a quadradic relationship exists between ship speed (SCM or afterburner?) vs. scanning capability for ships in general? Can you share a link to a CIG post revealing that?
Regarding the general observation that "Stealth makes a decent scout..." I agree, but check out CIG's Peregrine Q&A linked above. CIG indicates that the Sabre Peregrine has no stealth advantage. And, worse, it sounds as if the Peregrine lights up radar with its high energy / afterburner? Is the stealth ship you are describing as a scout the Sabre Raven variant instead?
As I mentioned above, I'd like to pick up an LTI Sabre Peregrine for a recon/scout role, but beyond it having a superior afterburner (straightaway speed, zero stealth) I don't see it having many qualifications for that role? What am I missing? I'm thinking that the Sabre Raven continues to be the variant to have for scouting / recon?
I'm curious what you feel makes it a "serious choice" as a scout? Its afterburner speed? I guess that's something. But it doesn't look like it has an advanced radar/scanner package? Are you saying that a quadradic relationship exists between ship speed (SCM or afterburner?) vs. scanning capability for ships in general? Can you share a link to a CIG post revealing that?
Regarding the general observation that "Stealth makes a decent scout..." I agree, but check out CIG's Peregrine Q&A linked above. CIG indicates that the Sabre Peregrine has no stealth advantage. And, worse, it sounds as if the Peregrine lights up radar with its high energy / afterburner? Is the stealth ship you are describing as a scout the Sabre Raven variant instead?
As I mentioned above, I'd like to pick up an LTI Sabre Peregrine for a recon/scout role, but beyond it having a superior afterburner (straightaway speed, zero stealth) I don't see it having many qualifications for that role? What am I missing? I'm thinking that the Sabre Raven continues to be the variant to have for scouting / recon?
Last edited:
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
No, I’m saying that in normal scan you will boost up to top drift speed, your SCM; then cut your engines and drift uncoupled for as long as it takes. SCM sets that limit, so that’s the speed to compare. This also means you can neglect IR in comparisons since you have almost none when your engines are off. The Peregrine is drifting at what? 287 was it? So it is superior to all other S1 scouts.
We can’t compare this against S2 scouts because we don’t know the S1 and S2 radii. It’s quite possible that even moving 30% slower, the Terrapin scans faster because scan goes with r^2 whereas it is only linear with speed. So if a Perragrine is 30% faster but 20% smaller radius, it will be outperformed by the Terrapine.
That said, the Terrapine cannot outrun a Vanduul Blade, Glaive, etc., so if the scan difference is not too great, the Perragrine could be the better choice.
S3 scan ships generally cannot be used for stealth recon despite no IR, because Vanduul cap ships will be actively pinging all the time. The exception may be the Zeus if it’s wearing Void Armor. I’m personally excited to see where the Zeus fits. It sits on such a flat plane that holding a Vanduul ping source abeam (to your edge) could make the Zeus EX into a monster scan platform.
In Star Wars Combine, we systematically scanned entire systems as a team, by sending scouts out to scan specific parallel sets of coordinates and inputting that data in a shared Google doc, which generated a scan map. This was all 2D. 3D will be much more laborious. I can tell you from much experience, you definitely want to use fast scanning ships rather than what’s handy. Scanning a full system could take several players several days and you don’t want to do this inefficiently. However, you also don’t want your scouts caught because you then could lose them, and even with dopey AI, you should expect to lose the element of surprise. That’s key if you’re scanning for torpedo targets.
In The Wraiths, we had adequate discipline that scouts knew to report significant finds like planets (in our case could be wormholes) but did not investigate these themselves. That should be left to another team comprised very differently than scouts. It’s important to do this or you never scan the entire system with a find, and many systems will have more than one find. So scouting requires players stay on task. In a Peregrine or Terrapin you can drift right by an actively pinging Vanduul at just a dozen kilometers, and should plan to do so. To get players to do this there needs to be significant reward. So setting up cooperative scan is actually somewhat involved.
We can’t compare this against S2 scouts because we don’t know the S1 and S2 radii. It’s quite possible that even moving 30% slower, the Terrapin scans faster because scan goes with r^2 whereas it is only linear with speed. So if a Perragrine is 30% faster but 20% smaller radius, it will be outperformed by the Terrapine.
That said, the Terrapine cannot outrun a Vanduul Blade, Glaive, etc., so if the scan difference is not too great, the Perragrine could be the better choice.
S3 scan ships generally cannot be used for stealth recon despite no IR, because Vanduul cap ships will be actively pinging all the time. The exception may be the Zeus if it’s wearing Void Armor. I’m personally excited to see where the Zeus fits. It sits on such a flat plane that holding a Vanduul ping source abeam (to your edge) could make the Zeus EX into a monster scan platform.
In Star Wars Combine, we systematically scanned entire systems as a team, by sending scouts out to scan specific parallel sets of coordinates and inputting that data in a shared Google doc, which generated a scan map. This was all 2D. 3D will be much more laborious. I can tell you from much experience, you definitely want to use fast scanning ships rather than what’s handy. Scanning a full system could take several players several days and you don’t want to do this inefficiently. However, you also don’t want your scouts caught because you then could lose them, and even with dopey AI, you should expect to lose the element of surprise. That’s key if you’re scanning for torpedo targets.
In The Wraiths, we had adequate discipline that scouts knew to report significant finds like planets (in our case could be wormholes) but did not investigate these themselves. That should be left to another team comprised very differently than scouts. It’s important to do this or you never scan the entire system with a find, and many systems will have more than one find. So scouting requires players stay on task. In a Peregrine or Terrapin you can drift right by an actively pinging Vanduul at just a dozen kilometers, and should plan to do so. To get players to do this there needs to be significant reward. So setting up cooperative scan is actually somewhat involved.
Last edited:
Ok, so this might seem fairly stupid to some & completely like a bunch of bananas to others, but after reading the Q&A as well as theories here & elsewhere, I've boiled down my theory of my ship being designed to race, but really it's great for whatever its owner chooses to use it for other than a combat role. Personally, after seeing some people use it in streams, I believe that it would be a lot of fun for those that enjoy the low level flying, just like the Fury but with the ability to travel further due to having a jump drive. My initial thought was that it might make good competition for the Origin 350R in the long distance races that is supposed to be famous for, though the downside for this is that the 350R has its own bed & toilet. Which gives it the overall edge in ultra long races across star systems, because the pilot in this will have to find places to sleep & use the restroom outside of the ship.
The ship with the lowest signatures overall is the Sabre Firebird; right now it sets the floor for stealth gameplay. However, none of the ship modules that affect signature have been re-adjusted to that reality yet i.e. a shield is a shield is a shield.
A point worth making is that CIG has been clear that a) radar and scanner are housed in the same component now b) there will be profession specific radars, including 'exploration'. c) these will be swappable like any other component d) certain hulls will be more capable at certain things.
So to the question you asked; no, the Raven would be no better than the other Sabres or most other small ships from the sensor perspective. From the perspective of the ship's own signature, the current tier arrangement in SC has the Firebird as the overall quietest ship with a quantum drive. There is close competition, but as this system is a placeholder for the actuals that will exist with Resource Management and whatever the new sensors look like, it's purely an artificial hierarchy. We can draw inferences from how CIG has set up the values, but no hard numbers.
I suspect that, like with everything Star Citizen, to get the best performance in one ability will mean significant compromises elsewhere. The Terriblepin is the living example of this design philosophy.
I will once again refer to spviewer.eu as an excellent resource to view the 'right now' specifics. It provides probably the best tools to view how CIG has positioned every ship currently in the game.
As to the role of scout.. yes, absolutely indispensible. A point I'll highlight is that the original artwork for the Polaris showed a Sabre as the fighter on board. Why a Sabre? because one potential way of using those massive torpedoes is to locate the target with a smaller ship and launch from extreme range with the target unaware of their impending doom. We are a ways off from this gameplay, but if there is a Polaris on-grid with you it would be unwise to wander anywhere within range.
Last edited:
Spyview.eu is a good resource, thanks!
I gave the Sabre Peregrine thought, but decided to forgo it. I'll stick with the Firebird, Comet, and Raven variants that feel a little more differentiated. The Peregrine, for a racer, has an afterburner speed only 3% higher than that of the Firebird and Raven. Such a small increase in speed for the loss of guns is too much of a tradeoff for me. The Raven will be my go-to variant for scouting on the Sabre platform.
I gave the Sabre Peregrine thought, but decided to forgo it. I'll stick with the Firebird, Comet, and Raven variants that feel a little more differentiated. The Peregrine, for a racer, has an afterburner speed only 3% higher than that of the Firebird and Raven. Such a small increase in speed for the loss of guns is too much of a tradeoff for me. The Raven will be my go-to variant for scouting on the Sabre platform.
Last edited: