The community seemed pretty pissed about this, I was 4min in when Zyloh responded. Timing was perfect!
Mercury Star Runner outrage and Zyloh Response
- Thread starter Montoya
- Start date
"iterative" reply/excuse I feel is a bit of a cop-out because, even though it doesn't bother me none since I will gladly wait these days a few days after initial release to try out a new ship, streamers getting the first access is not a new thing for CIG.
The difference is this is a more popular ship than most others, it is a millennium falcon alternative.
This time, angry comments will stick more than usual.
So... I don't have much sympathy for CIG this time because it has been the status quo.
Common sense dictates, in PTU access (non-Evo) those who purchased the ship should be first on the list for access as that is the considerate thing to do.
Just my 2 cents. I don't feel bad for CIG on this, at all. I am indifferent personally but... yea no sympathy from me.
The difference is this is a more popular ship than most others, it is a millennium falcon alternative.
This time, angry comments will stick more than usual.
So... I don't have much sympathy for CIG this time because it has been the status quo.
Common sense dictates, in PTU access (non-Evo) those who purchased the ship should be first on the list for access as that is the considerate thing to do.
Just my 2 cents. I don't feel bad for CIG on this, at all. I am indifferent personally but... yea no sympathy from me.
Wow....
Montoya I0ve seen all of your video on SC, but i never, never seen you so genuine angry like in this one, and I think this says a lot.
I don't follow the PTU (regular PU is buggy enough for me), but I0m 100% with you: CC are ok, but don't pu them before actual owner, is not that difficult... in therory
Montoya I0ve seen all of your video on SC, but i never, never seen you so genuine angry like in this one, and I think this says a lot.
I don't follow the PTU (regular PU is buggy enough for me), but I0m 100% with you: CC are ok, but don't pu them before actual owner, is not that difficult... in therory
I bought the MSR and I'm getting it on the official release date... I don't want the buggy, untested version that are only given to the content creators to help promotion and sales! I'm very happy, thank you CIG.
If you log into the PTU you can have it right now.
I did and while I'm very impressed... I was eaten twice, lol, once by the cooler container in engineering and once by vent system when trying to enter via the rec-room. I'm leaving it for the LIVE release, when its been polished up and without the bugs. Ty for your report and response.
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If this was the ship I bought and was waiting for since its conception I would be pissed off too.
I also understand Cigs point.
Please enjoy this useful contribution!
I also understand Cigs point.
Please enjoy this useful contribution!
@Montoya
What I am not seeing talked about is one of the key points Zyloh brought up - that part of the reason driving this method was a desire to avoid leaks that would steal the thunder of the release.
That issue is our fault, in Evocati. There are too many who, umm.. 'ignore' the NDA to get that jpeg to SCLeaks, reddit, or whatever. So CIG's choices are all bad, really. Put it in the game without PTU testing, and take heat for the bugs. Put it in the PTU to test and certain asshats leak it everywhere. I see this latest choice as being an attempt to walk the line between those essentially guaranteed extremes.
Personally, given the conflicting goals I am fine with the way it was rolled out. The ship would not have been out any sooner if the streamers hadn't had it; it had many bugs that needed patched (and still does have a few minor ones). And given the need to make a buck, riding the hype by teasing it with streamers is good marketing technique. Annoying as hell, but proven to move wallets.
The 'give me my toy NAOW' crowd is less mature than my toddler grandson.
What I am not seeing talked about is one of the key points Zyloh brought up - that part of the reason driving this method was a desire to avoid leaks that would steal the thunder of the release.
That issue is our fault, in Evocati. There are too many who, umm.. 'ignore' the NDA to get that jpeg to SCLeaks, reddit, or whatever. So CIG's choices are all bad, really. Put it in the game without PTU testing, and take heat for the bugs. Put it in the PTU to test and certain asshats leak it everywhere. I see this latest choice as being an attempt to walk the line between those essentially guaranteed extremes.
Personally, given the conflicting goals I am fine with the way it was rolled out. The ship would not have been out any sooner if the streamers hadn't had it; it had many bugs that needed patched (and still does have a few minor ones). And given the need to make a buck, riding the hype by teasing it with streamers is good marketing technique. Annoying as hell, but proven to move wallets.
The 'give me my toy NAOW' crowd is less mature than my toddler grandson.
These are not bugs, you need a sacrifice for your ship.
I was still doing some work when I listened to the video, and a bit distracted I almost jumped out of my skin when the volume went up so fast. I was not expecting that.
Wait, the MSR is out? I leave the forums for a few stinking days...
PTU only... atm. Means I get to live vicariously through videos a bit longer
Not only is is out, the Nightrunner skin gives it a very serious look..
Almost enough yellow/gold to be TEST.
(note after writing this out: I didn't even wanted to watch the vid at first cos mehh, who cares. CiG fucks up, the Sun sets in the West, what's new... But after reading the comments it made me angry enough to actually go in and watch it and that made me even more angry. Conclusion: I need more beer. And whiskey.)
Good vid, our Glorious Leader is right, for a change! (j/k)
Although I wouldn't let CIG off the hook just because they made Zyloh say "we just trying sooo hard to come up with new iteration, blah, meaningless non-apology words, we try new bs next time, dance monkey dance!" Feels like reading the "apology" post for Diablo mobile by Blizzard ffs....
The Steak analogy still remains true, and should make customers (us) angry.
To be honest I'm not surprised at all that CiG is doing this. It's been done in other stuff for ages, and it works fine in some circles. Cars, Phones, PC Parts, Movies, you name it. Some youtube or magazine shill gets first dibs on it for free just to promote it, while those who pre-ordered and actually paid for it will wait for days/weeks after release day to actually get what they paid for. It is a disgusting but common practice. Something CIG should not take part in, because see what happens! The vast majority of the paying customers are not on the same stupidity level as apple worshippers and the like, who just accept that they are the peasants and the holy corporation can do no wrong! CiG is not on the level to pull shit like this without consequences just yet.
The excuse made by some of you and others on spectrum of "yeah but this way you get it more polished and better" holds no water. Lack of self control is not an excuse for bullshit like this. If you bought it and want it in a polished state, you have the Choice not to check it on PTU, and wait for PU (where it will still by buggy as all hell anyways).
Also giving it to streamers does NOT help development cos they will concentrate on the bits that work, things they can show off and are cool, not on the bits that are bugged. You think they give a rats ass about filing a bug report? yeah, sure....
Oh mah poor important big streamers, first they had to wait like all us peasants for the ships, and now they are getting their viewers bounced around! OMG, those poor poor influencers!
Cry me a fucking river...
Have you ever watched their stuff? 90% of those big "influencer" streams are just some static graphic or some wheel of fortune bullshit while the streamer collects his free money and reads out dumb messeges, and says nothing of worth. 4 hours out of a 4hour 15 minute stream, literally not even playing the game. I truly did try my best to take part, to watch them, to enjoy them, but they are god awful, and should be dropped from any support by CIG immediately! They only cultivate the image that this game is a fake bullshit for crazed fanatics. They literally scare away normal prospective players with that.
The argument about where is the cutoff, who says who is good enough or not is an important point. Loads of small streamers have much higher quality content, because they are small and make streams of actually playing the damn game. They just didn't get their names dropped at by Cig at CitCon so they remain small forever. This practice of promoting influencers only alienates loads of ppl who try their best at representing the game in a good light for potential buyers, via showing that there is a real game, in which you can have real fun.
I'm not saying CIG should pick em up instead, because that only would lead to the same thing again. I'm saying CIG should not promote Any streamers in any official way. They should be handled the same way like us simple mortals who have actually PAYED for their own stuff.
If CIG wants streamers, so they can bring in more ppl, Employ them! Fully! And plaster it all over the stream that they are indeed working for CiG as employees, and getting payed to sell you the new shiny ship, thus they get the "slightly less polished" version to play with before everyone else!
Controversy solved!
Good vid, our Glorious Leader is right, for a change! (j/k)
Although I wouldn't let CIG off the hook just because they made Zyloh say "we just trying sooo hard to come up with new iteration, blah, meaningless non-apology words, we try new bs next time, dance monkey dance!" Feels like reading the "apology" post for Diablo mobile by Blizzard ffs....
The Steak analogy still remains true, and should make customers (us) angry.
To be honest I'm not surprised at all that CiG is doing this. It's been done in other stuff for ages, and it works fine in some circles. Cars, Phones, PC Parts, Movies, you name it. Some youtube or magazine shill gets first dibs on it for free just to promote it, while those who pre-ordered and actually paid for it will wait for days/weeks after release day to actually get what they paid for. It is a disgusting but common practice. Something CIG should not take part in, because see what happens! The vast majority of the paying customers are not on the same stupidity level as apple worshippers and the like, who just accept that they are the peasants and the holy corporation can do no wrong! CiG is not on the level to pull shit like this without consequences just yet.
The excuse made by some of you and others on spectrum of "yeah but this way you get it more polished and better" holds no water. Lack of self control is not an excuse for bullshit like this. If you bought it and want it in a polished state, you have the Choice not to check it on PTU, and wait for PU (where it will still by buggy as all hell anyways).
Also giving it to streamers does NOT help development cos they will concentrate on the bits that work, things they can show off and are cool, not on the bits that are bugged. You think they give a rats ass about filing a bug report? yeah, sure....
Oh mah poor important big streamers, first they had to wait like all us peasants for the ships, and now they are getting their viewers bounced around! OMG, those poor poor influencers!
Cry me a fucking river...
Have you ever watched their stuff? 90% of those big "influencer" streams are just some static graphic or some wheel of fortune bullshit while the streamer collects his free money and reads out dumb messeges, and says nothing of worth. 4 hours out of a 4hour 15 minute stream, literally not even playing the game. I truly did try my best to take part, to watch them, to enjoy them, but they are god awful, and should be dropped from any support by CIG immediately! They only cultivate the image that this game is a fake bullshit for crazed fanatics. They literally scare away normal prospective players with that.
The argument about where is the cutoff, who says who is good enough or not is an important point. Loads of small streamers have much higher quality content, because they are small and make streams of actually playing the damn game. They just didn't get their names dropped at by Cig at CitCon so they remain small forever. This practice of promoting influencers only alienates loads of ppl who try their best at representing the game in a good light for potential buyers, via showing that there is a real game, in which you can have real fun.
I'm not saying CIG should pick em up instead, because that only would lead to the same thing again. I'm saying CIG should not promote Any streamers in any official way. They should be handled the same way like us simple mortals who have actually PAYED for their own stuff.
If CIG wants streamers, so they can bring in more ppl, Employ them! Fully! And plaster it all over the stream that they are indeed working for CiG as employees, and getting payed to sell you the new shiny ship, thus they get the "slightly less polished" version to play with before everyone else!
Controversy solved!
I am going to disagree (respectfully) with you glorious leader. It is not the same as “I ordered a steak and they gave it to the influencer”.
instead, a much better analogy is “I pre-ordered a 3080/3090 but pc gamer, Linus, and Jayz got theirs first”. Or I pre-ordered a 2023 mustang but car and driver and those idiots on Top Gear were allowed to drive one before I was”
YouTubers are the newest members of the media, along with magazines, tv shows, etc. As such, and in return for the publicity they are given early access to the newest shiny item. The bigger the audience and the more “friendly“, or at least neutral they are, the better the change they get the newest stuff, long before others can. unfortunately, it doesnt matter how long you have been doing it, it’s all about the numbers.
Now, obviously this upset people. However, these streamers generated tons of publicity for the ship. this meant everyone now KNEW when the rental period for the MSR would be. That meant CIG could use that as a stress test for the rental mechanics.
the Focus of testing was not on testing out the MSR, but on testing the stability of the game, and testing the IAE showcase halls. Has they just released the MSR to Wave 1, it would have meant that a lot of people would not be testing the halls, but they would be playing and “testing” the MSR. (Again, not the focus for the weekend). It would also have meant that those who paid for it, but were not in Wave 1, would have had to wait while those subscribers and other wave 1 members got to fly around in a ship they paid for too.
was this a perfect roll out? No. Did they accomplish the testing they needed to occur but would not have had the MSR been released (or held back) until Sunday night? Yes they did.
Sometimes thing don’t make sense, but the vitriol of the community was over the top. People have gone way beyond reasonable in their attacks on CIG over this. I don’t know if it’s the pressure of being cooped up, the problems people are feeling over the protests/election/economy/name your poison, but expressing rage in this manner doesn’t solve anything. It just makes it worse Because CIG will remember this, and maybe next time, it will be withheld from wave 1 entirely with only Evocati having it for testing until everyone gets into PTU...
instead, a much better analogy is “I pre-ordered a 3080/3090 but pc gamer, Linus, and Jayz got theirs first”. Or I pre-ordered a 2023 mustang but car and driver and those idiots on Top Gear were allowed to drive one before I was”
YouTubers are the newest members of the media, along with magazines, tv shows, etc. As such, and in return for the publicity they are given early access to the newest shiny item. The bigger the audience and the more “friendly“, or at least neutral they are, the better the change they get the newest stuff, long before others can. unfortunately, it doesnt matter how long you have been doing it, it’s all about the numbers.
Now, obviously this upset people. However, these streamers generated tons of publicity for the ship. this meant everyone now KNEW when the rental period for the MSR would be. That meant CIG could use that as a stress test for the rental mechanics.
the Focus of testing was not on testing out the MSR, but on testing the stability of the game, and testing the IAE showcase halls. Has they just released the MSR to Wave 1, it would have meant that a lot of people would not be testing the halls, but they would be playing and “testing” the MSR. (Again, not the focus for the weekend). It would also have meant that those who paid for it, but were not in Wave 1, would have had to wait while those subscribers and other wave 1 members got to fly around in a ship they paid for too.
was this a perfect roll out? No. Did they accomplish the testing they needed to occur but would not have had the MSR been released (or held back) until Sunday night? Yes they did.
Sometimes thing don’t make sense, but the vitriol of the community was over the top. People have gone way beyond reasonable in their attacks on CIG over this. I don’t know if it’s the pressure of being cooped up, the problems people are feeling over the protests/election/economy/name your poison, but expressing rage in this manner doesn’t solve anything. It just makes it worse Because CIG will remember this, and maybe next time, it will be withheld from wave 1 entirely with only Evocati having it for testing until everyone gets into PTU...
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Patrick Spaceman
Grand Admiral
Should have given a special shout-out to the Eradicator......lol
Thank you, Glorious Leader!
I watched the video.
I went to bed.
I had a dream where I was doing a coloring book which featured a Brontosaurus saving Big Bird from falling to to his death off a cliff by offering him a branch to grab hold to and pull him up with.
And I awoke and here is my take on it:
TL;DR:
You're launching a new vehicle, make a Press Event like they do for cars and the motoring press IRL, and put an embargo on it being broadcast until launch of the ship. You get the content makers audience, all of their viewers get to watch their favorite without having to flock to the only guy with the ship in their stream, and the owners can go get in their ship without watching the videos and feeling like their moment of glory has been stolen.
My thinking:
When a ship is released to the backers, that should be the first moment they set foot in the ship, and see it through their own eyes. That is not only what they want, it's what they need after two years, three years, five years of waiting for a ship to come out. It's the payoff. It's the beginning of a relationship which will either flourish or end in Melty McShip Face.
To see that wait ended not through your own expiriance but through the expiriance of others? Nope, that's not satisfactory.
I don't have an MSR so I don't have a monkey in this cage fight but I know how it felt after pledging before I had a working computer, building my machine, getting it working and the first moment I stepped on to my Connie Taurus and just expirianced it in person... No other expiriance like it. (especially as I got stuck on the toilet as I couldn't work out which button got your off it in that patch).
So here is my solution:
Invite the streamers and video makers as a group to a press event on a private server in the 'Verse. Take them on a tour of the ship, give them a fly of the thing, put on a gala show for them. IRL similar is done for the Automotive Press for car launches, a press day with loads of the car available for the press to have a thrash in. But for us, embargo the video makers and streamers vids until release day. Streamers will still be able to stream a live reaction to their own video so they can still do live to their audience.
The creators content and the ship come out at the same time on the same day. Any creator who breaks the Embargo is not invited back next time/is suspended from X amount of launches.
People who want to watch the videos, can. People who want to expiriance their ship first hand, can.
The video makers and streamers don't "get" it first, but they get the chance to make content on it in advance. If it isn't compatible with the intention to make it an Event Headline ship like for the IAE, launch the ship a few days earlier and get the actual owners to hype up their new ship for the rest of the backer base alongside the content creators.
Might work. Might not. Give it a try.
I watched the video.
I went to bed.
I had a dream where I was doing a coloring book which featured a Brontosaurus saving Big Bird from falling to to his death off a cliff by offering him a branch to grab hold to and pull him up with.
And I awoke and here is my take on it:
TL;DR:
You're launching a new vehicle, make a Press Event like they do for cars and the motoring press IRL, and put an embargo on it being broadcast until launch of the ship. You get the content makers audience, all of their viewers get to watch their favorite without having to flock to the only guy with the ship in their stream, and the owners can go get in their ship without watching the videos and feeling like their moment of glory has been stolen.
My thinking:
When a ship is released to the backers, that should be the first moment they set foot in the ship, and see it through their own eyes. That is not only what they want, it's what they need after two years, three years, five years of waiting for a ship to come out. It's the payoff. It's the beginning of a relationship which will either flourish or end in Melty McShip Face.
To see that wait ended not through your own expiriance but through the expiriance of others? Nope, that's not satisfactory.
I don't have an MSR so I don't have a monkey in this cage fight but I know how it felt after pledging before I had a working computer, building my machine, getting it working and the first moment I stepped on to my Connie Taurus and just expirianced it in person... No other expiriance like it. (especially as I got stuck on the toilet as I couldn't work out which button got your off it in that patch).
So here is my solution:
Invite the streamers and video makers as a group to a press event on a private server in the 'Verse. Take them on a tour of the ship, give them a fly of the thing, put on a gala show for them. IRL similar is done for the Automotive Press for car launches, a press day with loads of the car available for the press to have a thrash in. But for us, embargo the video makers and streamers vids until release day. Streamers will still be able to stream a live reaction to their own video so they can still do live to their audience.
The creators content and the ship come out at the same time on the same day. Any creator who breaks the Embargo is not invited back next time/is suspended from X amount of launches.
People who want to watch the videos, can. People who want to expiriance their ship first hand, can.
The video makers and streamers don't "get" it first, but they get the chance to make content on it in advance. If it isn't compatible with the intention to make it an Event Headline ship like for the IAE, launch the ship a few days earlier and get the actual owners to hype up their new ship for the rest of the backer base alongside the content creators.
Might work. Might not. Give it a try.