MSR makes MAX and Cutty Black obsolete? Thoughts?

[Cugino83]

The in atmo flight vid shows it handles very nicely, and it's top burn is 10% higher than the Lancer, Cutty and Vanguard. I may have a new favorite ride. It's interesting each reviewer I've seen thus far says it's their new favorite ship. I am dearly hoping it has a ~200 EM with all but an Eclipse and a Nightfall off.

Well I've done some tinkering with erkul and with a full stealth setup with the exception of one shiled (FR-76) and switcing the bulldog for the Atrition (less EM signature oon standby) you can, by turning off weapon and the FR-76, reach around 700 EM that is far from bad for a ship of that size...

https://www.erkul.games/calculator;loadout=erGiXXXv

and with no shield and weapon deactivated is 204... impressive if the data stay as they are now.

 

[Ayeteeone]

We don't have rotation and lateral acceleration figures for the MSR yet, so comparisons to other medium ships seem a bit early. It's quite possible it is as fast as a medium ship, but does not turn well (like the 600i and Carrack). That would end the comparison to medium ships like the Cutty and Lancer.

Presuming it does handle like a medium ship, I think you'd still rather have the Cutty to fight with. Not sure what will become of the Lancer. Surely though in a conflict, the MSR needs to run away from almost anything. If you're not comfortable running from conflicts, it's not the ship for you.

Note too, the hidden cargo area is not so far as I'm aware, an addition to the 96 cargo, and out of that 96 total, you lose about half if you put a rover in. People are going to be very disappointed if they convince themselves this ship can do everything better than all the ships it competes with, including the Connie and Corsair. Despite what the ships page says, this is really a large ship built with medium components, just like the Connie and Corsair. That's where the best comparisons lie.

Why choose a large ship made with medium components, when the large components like those on the 600i give such a bonus? I think the best reason is if you're interested in stealth. There are no Large stealth components.

It remains to be seen if you can run this on a pair of Eclipse, and what the EM sigs will be. I'm hoping this is a great stealth platform, but right now, no one knows.

Actually, it doesn't remain. I was doing it last night.

 

[Richard Bong]

Hi all

I know the price point is very different... but if you had a Cutty and a MAX, would the MSR not make them both obsolete? So if you had these two, would it not be better to melt them and get a MSR?

My main question:
-Is there anything the MAX and / or Cutty can do that the MSR cannot?

Thanks!

The Cutty is not in the same class and does not have the same mission parameters. So, no, the MSR does not obsolete the Cutty, unless all you intended to do is haul cargo, then everything obsoletes the Cutty Black.

The Max and Taurus are in the same general class. They are both significantly cheaper. They both have more pilot firepower. They both are more soloable. Most imporatntly they both carry much more cargo.

So if you want cargo hauling, you want the Max or the Taurus. If you want data running with less cargo and less firepower, then MSR.

 

[Richard Bong]

The MSR also has Gimbled S3s as well as 2x S3 Turrets and by the looks of it, the MSR handles a lot better too. But as pointed out, the MAX will have better fuel efficiency over shorter distances and less presence to be victimised. Even the the MSR will be faster, it has a greater profile and will be much easier to hit I think. It is not close in size to the Lancer, it is significantly larger...
View attachment 19220

One other point, when you see an MSR, you are likely to think Smuggler. It will draw more attention from players, if not NPC Advocacy.

 

[Richard Bong]

Another thing to consider long term is what size Jump Points it can navigate. I think they've said the Freelancer series is the biggest thing that'll fit through Small jumps. That's a massive bonus if you look at the current map. Some places you can reach a whole new sector of the Verse in under 3-5 Small jumps. A Medium route would take an extra few jumps. And forget Large, some routes would be hours of travel.

They did mention they were rethinking Jump point sizes and how the mechanics will work.

From the Mercury Q&A:

Is the Mercury expected to be able to fit through Small Jump Points?


Jump point sizing and categorisation is still being worked out, but we expect the Mercury to fit through the same size jump points as the Freelancer.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

They did mention they were rethinking Jump point sizes and how the mechanics will work.

From the Mercury Q&A:
[MSR may fit same as FL]

Thanks for this, I have a Taurus and was going to get a Freelancer this Anniversary Sale with an LTI token purely because it's going to be the beggest ship that can fit a small Jump Hole, however.... If the MSR is going to fit... I can't think why the Taurus wouldn't...

 

[Firebrand]

One other point, when you see an MSR, you are likely to think Smuggler. It will draw more attention from players, if not NPC Advocacy.

Not if I have my Advocacy skin applied, lol. Joking aside, smuggling is only something that will be of concern to NPC security and the lore suggests that they don't know about the MSR's 'secret' vents. As players are concerned, they will hit any cargo ship that looks vulnerable and that doesn't have an escort, the MSR will be no more at risk of getting hit than a Connie, Cat or Hull Series.

 

[Szioul]

Didn't it get an increase in size since the Q&A? Looking at the Spectrum post, it wasn't even in production at the time.

Q&A: Crusader Mercury - Roberts Space Industries | Follow the development of Star Citizen and Squadron 42

Roberts Space Industries is the official go-to website for all news about Star Citizen and Squadron 42. It also hosts the online store for game items and merch, as well as all the community tools used by our fans.

robertsspaceindustries.com

I mean, it's large compared to a Constellation, and huge when comparing to a Freelancer.

 

[SoloPlayerZA]

Thanks for amazing replies! Alot to think about....

 

[Grimbli]

From my understanding, the MSR was always going to be limited to Medium size jump points and up... for a Data Runner, the smaller jump points will be the territory of the lovely Herald (and the Terrapin, depending on what its exact role is).

Nice map btw, this is the one I've been looking at for ages for the same reason. Less detail but a little more legible.
View attachment 19224

I used that map up until a few months ago. While that one is easy to read I like all the info ready to read. And it's dark mode, love me some dark mode.

Although the nicest feature is that they don't combine any of the small jumps. Makes it n% easier to read.

 

[Grimbli]

They did mention they were rethinking Jump point sizes and how the mechanics will work.

From the Mercury Q&A:

Thanks for this, I have a Taurus and was going to get a Freelancer this Anniversary Sale with an LTI token purely because it's going to be the beggest ship that can fit a small Jump Hole, however.... If the MSR is going to fit... I can't think why the Taurus wouldn't...

If this is the case and it does fit through the same points as a MAX, then I need to rethink my fleet. Luckily half of it is still in upgrade tokens.

Although I seriously can't imagine them letting a Connie fit small sizes. But on the other hand, looking at the map, just going up to a Medium from a Small can severely restrict travel.

 

[Richard Bong]

Not if I have my Advocacy skin applied, lol. Joking aside, smuggling is only something that will be of concern to NPC security and the lore suggests that they don't know about the MSR's 'secret' vents. As players are concerned, they will hit any cargo ship that looks vulnerable and that doesn't have an escort, the MSR will be no more at risk of getting hit than a Connie, Cat or Hull Series.

It is stock, how could they not know? The whole "dedicated smuggling ship" idea is a rather foolish one, unless you are talking about a Cigarette Boat equivalent, and in that case there is no need for secret compartments.

 

[Richard Bong]

If this is the case and it does fit through the same points as a MAX, then I need to rethink my fleet. Luckily half of it is still in upgrade tokens.

Although I seriously can't imagine them letting a Connie fit small sizes. But on the other hand, looking at the map, just going up to a Medium from a Small can severely restrict travel.

The Connie is no longer really large. Even under the old guidance of what constitutes "large" it is the smallest large ship in the game. And, other than the Retaliator, all the other large ships are considerably larger.

 

[Firebrand]

It is stock, how could they not know? The whole "dedicated smuggling ship" idea is a rather foolish one, unless you are talking about a Cigarette Boat equivalent, and in that case there is no need for secret compartments.

It was already addressed in the dev video and makes perfect sense for the gameplay they intend.

 

[Richard Bong]

Not if I have my Advocacy skin applied, lol. Joking aside, smuggling is only something that will be of concern to NPC security and the lore suggests that they don't know about the MSR's 'secret' vents. As players are concerned, they will hit any cargo ship that looks vulnerable and that doesn't have an escort, the MSR will be no more at risk of getting hit than a Connie, Cat or Hull Series.

So then you are both a thief and a smuggler. :) So you must have some really cool stuff to recover.

 

[Firebrand]

So then you are both a thief and a smuggler. :) So you must have some really cool stuff to recover.

Depends on the day of the week...

 

[AntiSqueaker]

Firstly comparing a 100 Dollar Combat/Freight multi-role ship to a 260 (rumored new cost) Freight/Info-Runner/Smuggler ship is pretty apples to oranges. They have fairly different roles and uses. I have em both.

On the Cutlasses side, the Cutlass (Black+Blue) have almost equal firepower (equal firepower if you choose to run all fixed) and can easily be solo'd with future slaved turrets/AI autoturret blades or run at 100% capability with a second person.

MSR maybe not- I would hazard a guess that the Info Running/Scanning/Hacking Computer slots are different from the Computer Blades for balance reasons (and lore wise you may want to have sensitive information on a closed system with no outside access to the rest of the ship for security reasons). The turrets have good coverage but 6x S3s isn't a huge amount of firepower for a ship that large and it's definetely more geared towards running away while the turrets cover you than going in guns blazing, whereas a Cutlass is perfectly happy and capable of getting into a scrap.


I'm not a great pilot by any means but I can hold my own against almost anything but a Vanguard in my Cutlass- and that's without the turret either.

If you want to just haul freight then yeah, the MSR is clearly better, but the Cutlass is still a phenomenal ship (even if it honestly needs a second shield generator like the Freelancer and even the Mole) and honestly the best bang for your buck in SC except maybe the Avenger Titan.

 

[Richard Bong]

Firstly comparing a 100 Dollar Combat/Freight multi-role ship to a 260 (rumored new cost) Freight/Info-Runner/Smuggler ship is pretty apples to oranges. They have fairly different roles and uses. I have em both.

On the Cutlasses side, the Cutlass (Black+Blue) have almost equal firepower (equal firepower if you choose to run all fixed) and can easily be solo'd with future slaved turrets/AI autoturret blades or run at 100% capability with a second person.

MSR maybe not- I would hazard a guess that the Info Running/Scanning/Hacking Computer slots are different from the Computer Blades for balance reasons (and lore wise you may want to have sensitive information on a closed system with no outside access to the rest of the ship for security reasons). The turrets have good coverage but 6x S3s isn't a huge amount of firepower for a ship that large and it's definetely more geared towards running away while the turrets cover you than going in guns blazing, whereas a Cutlass is perfectly happy and capable of getting into a scrap.


I'm not a great pilot by any means but I can hold my own against almost anything but a Vanguard in my Cutlass- and that's without the turret either.

If you want to just haul freight then yeah, the MSR is clearly better, but the Cutlass is still a phenomenal ship (even if it honestly needs a second shield generator like the Freelancer and even the Mole) and honestly the best bang for your buck in SC except maybe the Avenger Titan.

At one point in time they were also talking about automated guns being down a size, due to the mechanicals needing the space. (But no I don't remember where I saw that, sorry.)

 

[Esctasy]

Melt your Cutty & Max, get a MSR. Play with it until your bored with it. Then you can make the comparison as it applies to you. If you prefer the Cutty & Max then melt the MSR and buy it back. Game won't be released for another decade, so no one is making you decide on your final fleet anytime soon.

 

[Black Sunder]

Hmm, I do not think it makes either obsolete. Each has its strengths over the MSR and each has a role to play. What the MSR offers is a more complete package, but with drawbacks, over the others.

Cargo - The MAX has more or can carry 2 URSAs.
Size - THe MSR is huge now. This is ok. The MAX and Cutlass are both much smaller and can fit in different places like hangars.
Sneak - The MSR's size attracts more hits to its hull. The Cutlass when set up right can glide into places the MSR wouldn't be able to.
Firepower - The MAX and Cutlass both outlass the MSR easily.