Questions on Aegis Eclipse

[Mastersan]

Hi All,

I've been TESTing Aegis Eclipse, and I've noticed some issues/bungs/features with its torpedoes, so wanted to see if you know what this is.

I've been using Seeker torpedoes in Bounty Hunting missions.

When I do Very High Risk Target or High Risk Target the torpedoes lock on the target from the max distance the targets are picked by the radar: 10 - 15 km. However, as torps travel and hit the targets, they do no damage, or targets take no damage. Only when I get to about 5 - 6 km targets receive damage and get destroyed. Tried a few times, no damage at long range and damage at close range. The advantage of Eclipse and torps is to be able to hit targets unseen and at long range. But it didn't work.

The other issue is when I did Arlington Gang Bounty Hunting missions, and the first one (Les Arlington) is flying Eclipse. It's possibly a default loadout, as I was able to see the target at 2-3 km away (the target travels, and when engines are engaged I can see the target from 3km, otherwise it's 2 - 2.5 km) but they were not seeing me (mine is not a stock loadout, so more stealthy). Seeker torpedo minimum lock range is 2.6 km, but it was not locking on 2.6km or 3km. I tried quite a few times, but there was no lock. So I had to use guns to finish the mission.

Wanted to try some PvP bounties, but they all were sitting in armistice zones, and there were enough bounty hunters at SPK, so no luck there either.

Questions I've got:

1) Why torpedoes do no damage to NPC targets at long range? Is this only Seeker issue or other torps behave the same? Does the same happen for PvP and you have to almost lose your stealth advantage to damage the target?

2) Why torpedoes are not locking at minimum or close to minimum range? Is this Seeker only issue? Or do you need different types of torps at close range, like cross-section or infra-red? Does the same happen in PvP?

3) What is the maximum distance at which the best radars can pick an Eclipse with full Stealth Grade A components? I sometimes turn off guns, shields and one cooler, which gives me 200 EM and about 2000 IR signatures. In PvE it seems like less than 2km, possibly around 0.5 - 1 km. Not sure on PvP.

4) What is the largest target that can be destroyed with 3 torpedoes that Eclipse can carry? On paper (from DPS calculator) it appears that 3 torpedoes destroy anything, however practice is usually different. In PvE, so far the Valkyrie was the largest target, and it takes 1 hit to destroy it. Can you destroy an Idris (Arlington mission) or a Hammerhead with 3 torps?

Cheers!

 

[vahadar]

1) Why torpedoes do no damage to NPC targets at long range? Is this only Seeker issue or other torps behave the same? Does the same happen for PvP and you have to almost lose your stealth advantage to damage the target?

4) What is the largest target that can be destroyed with 3 torpedoes that Eclipse can carry? On paper (from DPS calculator) it appears that 3 torpedoes destroy anything, however practice is usually different. In PvE, so far the Valkyrie was the largest target, and it takes 1 hit to destroy it. Can you destroy an Idris (Arlington mission) or a Hammerhead with 3 torps?

Cheers!

1) I think it is just because you target has moved and the torpedoes simply missed. I am doing bounty mission with eclipse also when opposition is with Hammerheads. And if they move just a bit on perpendicular translation compared to torpedo trajectory, the torpedo will miss. So you need to make sure the target is moving in the same line as you do, so it does not move laterally in your hud. Or the target needs to be still. I am generally shooting at 8-10km distance. I don't think it makes a difference at your distance. At that distance also make sure no asteroid or object are in the way of the torpedo.
It is extremely easy for a moving target, even big as Hammerhead or Idris, to dodge a S9 Torp.

4) one or two hits is enough to kill a hammerhead for bounties or Arlington mission. With one hit it is 50/50 to kill with 1st Torp. Depends where you hit. 2nd hit same location is a kill for sure. I never tried the Idris with an eclipse. Theoretically 3 torps landing in a row at same location, locking and firing them as fast as possible after one another could score a kill. In a retaliator you can kill Idris without problem because you can fire multiple torps at same time.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I recommend trying the Typhoons. Not only do they lock at closer ranges, but they travel twice as fast as the others, which means half the time to evade. All small and medium ships ought to be able to evade S9 torps if they have the opportunity.

IIRC, the IDRIS's shield is over 1M hps. A single Eclipse could maybe take down the shield but not much more.

For calculating detection ranges see here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgYXkFTnG0&t=199s


and here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz0HjY4UoTA&t=94s

 

[Mastersan]

1) I think it is just because you target has moved and the torpedoes simply missed. I am doing bounty mission with eclipse also when opposition is with Hammerheads. And if they move just a bit on perpendicular translation compared to torpedo trajectory, the torpedo will miss. So you need to make sure the target is moving in the same line as you do, so it does not move laterally in your hud. Or the target needs to be still. I am generally shooting at 8-10km distance. I don't think it makes a difference at your distance. At that distance also make sure no asteroid or object are in the way of the torpedo.
It is extremely easy for a moving target, even big as Hammerhead or Idris, to dodge a S9 Torp.

4) one or two hits is enough to kill a hammerhead for bounties or Arlington mission. With one hit it is 50/50 to kill with 1st Torp. Depends where you hit. 2nd hit same location is a kill for sure. I never tried the Idris with an eclipse. Theoretically 3 torps landing in a row at same location, locking and firing them as fast as possible after one another could score a kill. In a retaliator you can kill Idris without problem because you can fire multiple torps at same time.

Thanks for the above.

Re point 1: the targets didn't move, I've seen it on my HUD and target display, - the targets stayed idle and immobile. Also, there was nothing in between me and targets. All what mattered was distance. Will do more testing, might be server bug, or torp type. I remember not having this issue when tried out Eclipse when it just made its way into the game.

 

[Mastersan]

I recommend trying the Typhoons. Not only do they lock at closer ranges, but they travel twice as fast as the others, which means half the time to evade. All small and medium ships ought to be able to evade S9 torps if they have the opportunity.

IIRC, the IDRIS's shield is over 1M hps. A single Eclipse could maybe take down the shield but not much more.

For calculating detection ranges see here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgYXkFTnG0&t=199s


and here:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz0HjY4UoTA&t=94s

Thank for the reply and videos, which are very handy, and answer my question 3 if I use the updated calcs from video 2.

I'll try Typhoons and see how they go. My choice of Seeker type was due to an assumption that, since it tracks EM signatures, and typically these are the highest on NPC ships, so the torp should be able to lock and hit the target from far away.

Also, Seeker has highest energy and physical damage of all 3 torps, and total of 1.36M damage, which, I've assumed, gives a chance to bring down shields on one side of an Idris and destroy it. But this needs testing.

 

[Mastersan]

Tried Typhoon torps. They manage to destroy a target from about 10km, but don't do anything from 15-16 km, despite target is visible and there is a lock. Torps just fire and disappear after about 10 seconds. I have a feeling that there is a 10 seconds timer on the torps, after which they self destruct. Seeker works from about 5km and it travels at about 0.5km/s, and Typhoon works from about 10km, but it's twice as fast at about 1 km/s.

In the Arlington Hammerhead mission, I've destroyed the Hammerhead with 1 Typhoon torp.

 

[marcsand2]

Are torpedoes affected by counter measurements? That is the reason why I try to get as close as possible before releasing them. Less time for evasive action or counter measurements.

 

[Mastersan]

Are torpedoes affected by counter measurements? That is the reason why I try to get as close as possible before releasing them. Less time for evasive action or counter measurements.

Not sure, I haven't seen enemies using countermeasures against torpedoes, but I've seen countermeasures used against missiles.

 

[Mastersan]

Got the Idris mission and used Typhoon torpedoes. It took 2 torpedoes to take down Idris shields, and the third one damaged the hull. However, Idris didn't go down with 3 torps. I've been attacking from an angle, so shields on 2 sides of Idris were damaged. Possibly if I've sent them from such a position that all damage goes into one side shield, then the first torp may take it down and the other two may be enough to take Idris down. Also, it's probably worth to try Seeker torps for their higher damage. Note, that each torpedo damages the hull of Idris, since they all do physical damage, which goes (partially) through shields.

I have also noticed a sign popped up showing Combat Rating. I understand this is the damage to Idris hull. With the first torp the combat rating went to 42,723. With the second one, to 90,460 (+47,737). And with the 3rd torp it went to 162,341 (+71,881). This probably suggests that the shields were not really down and blocked the majority of the damage.

Then I went for rearm and back, only to find out that someone in Retaliator was shooting the Idris, and destroying it. I only got 29,595 as payoff.

I've got the whole thing on video, just didn't post it, let me know if you want me to.