Ship prices at launch

[Harkonan]

There is a current conversation going on spectrum and I know this has been discussed before, but I am curious as to what other TESTies think about this. Below was my response that I believe to be true.


My opinion always has been that you'll never see a return on investment with the ships you receive for pledges. Otherwise this game will see little to no growth on release. No one wants to play a game that they have to grind for months/years on end in order to unlock items others are already enjoying. Remember, you are pledging money for the development of the game, the ships are just an added "Thank you" bonus for doing so. There have never been nor will there ever be any concrete promises that your $500 pledge ship will retain that same real world value for the life span of the game.

So it really depends on CIGs ultimate sales goal. If they want to sell as many copies as humanly possible, expect most ship prices to be relatively obtainable through semi-casual game play. If they just want to maintain the development fan base and get lynch mobbed in the press, expect your ships to retain most of their value.

They won't be able to have it both ways in the current gaming climate of today ... just ask Electronic Arts.

Thoughts?

 

[Zookajoe]

Most ships, yes. I would say that is a safe assumption.

However, I think that once you start getting to the minimum crew of 2 or higher, those would be more difficult for the semi-casual player to achieve. I would put it to about the $150 or less range, as ships that would be less difficult for semi-casual players to acquire.

But as to the "Value" of a ship. I do see that dropping as the game progresses. There will be exceptions of course, but overall, I think you are correct.

 

[Harkonan]

By semi-casual I meant people who don't LIVE on the server fyi. ;-)

 

[Zookajoe]

By semi-casual I meant people who don't LIVE on the server fyi. ;-)

What?

It is only about 4 hours a day...on the weekdays...

On weekends though, oh look...seems my calendar is open...

 

[Harkonan]

Casual to me is someone who plays a hour or less a day.
Semi-Casual would be someone who plays at least several hours a day on average a week.
Lifers are the people who are putting in hours like it's their job. 30+ hours a week.

If SC is their "main" game, most people will fall into the semi-casual category in my example. If CIG wants Star Citizen to be successful, I believe they will have to give those players a decent sense of "achievement" for them to stay. If someone wants a 600i after launch and they are told it's going to cost either $400+ or 4,000 hours of grinding ... the game is doomed to fail IMHO.

What?

It is only about 4 hours a day...on the weekdays...

On weekends though, oh look...seems my calendar is open...

 

[Printimus]

I whole-heartedly expect some ships to take months or years to acquire in game via in-game currency. Otherwise the game will get boring within the first year of gameplay. Gotta have both short-term and long-term goals to achieve in the game.

 

[SullyQuindarius]

I don't mind ships not being impossible to achieve. IIRC, a Freelancer is supposed to be attainable in a week of casual gameplay. I hope they're achievable. I just hope they don't let people buy them or buy UEC to buy them for cheaper.

There's a lot of things I'd be fine with, but if I were to buy a $750 Polaris, and then on release CIG lets people buy one with $100 worth if UEC, we're gonna have a problem ;)

And I don't think they're gonna do that. I don't think they want people to just buy their way through the game.

 

[Montoya]

I think something like an Idris or Javelin should be a group effort between 10-15 putting in close to full time grind for a month.

An individual should not be able to afford an end-game multicrew ship with a few hours of grind.

Similar to how building a Titan in Eve is something an entire guild needs to work together to do, but not exactly that extreme.

 

[Harkonan]

I whole-heartedly expect some ships to take months or years to acquire in game via in-game currency. Otherwise the game will get boring within the first year of gameplay. Gotta have both short-term and long-term goals to achieve in the game.

I agree. I just don't think most will work this way. Very large ships will require large amounts of money and resources, perhaps even orgs to maintain and operate. I just can't image a world where CIG expects players to spend loads of cash or in game grinding to achieve all the same ships people are receiving for pledges now.

And as someone who has spent hundreds and hundreds (but not thousands ...yet) to help bring this project to life ... I hope they don't. The last thing I want to see is this game get raked through the fire by the press and have a stagnant community. That could be catastrophic.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

My opinion always has been that you'll never see a return on investment with the ships you receive for pledges...

...Thoughts?

My thought is that there isn't and never has been any investment. They (CIG) have always said the value of the ship received has no relevance to the value of funds pledged so it's not like it's a secret or anything.

:slight_smile:

Is an aurora MR worth $20? I'd say its worth more as its an interplanetary craft...

Is a Drake Dragonfly worth $30? It's insignificant compared to an aurora MR but is $10 more?

Is a 100i with all its luxury and AIR system worth $40? It's only $10 more than a Dragonfly?

The pledges have no relevance to the ships you receive.

 

[Printimus]

I agree. I just don't think most will work this way. Very large ships will require large amounts of money and resources, perhaps even orgs to maintain and operate. I just can't image a world where CIG expects players to spend loads of cash or in game grinding to achieve all the same ships people are receiving for pledges now.

And as someone who has spent hundreds and hundreds (but not thousands ...yet) to help bring this project to life ... I hope they don't. The last thing I want to see is this game get raked through the fire by the press and have a stagnant community. That could be catastrophic.

nah, it wont be stagnant.... the transparent development that CIG has with its supporters keeps things lively. Either way, people will have to work hard (either in real life earning real money to buy jpeg ships, or in game earning UEC moneys) towards their dream ships. There's no "easy" way about this, its not a quick play game like Overwatch or PUBG or whatever short-term attention span games kids are playing now.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I genuinely think there is going to be an off-game way of continuing to play and make UEC.

Maybe a stock-market app or something where you'll be able to buy and sell stocks on the app to wrack up more cash that you'll be able to use in however much game-time you eventually have.

Or just a mini-game doing UEE admin work, something you can jump in to and play for 5 mins on the bus or during your tea-break.

Or if you have a ship which has has a refinery or a science station or a data processing system you can do that while away from the game that can maximize the credits you make when you get back into the game...?

 

[Harkonan]

That would be cool. I remember a MMO I use to play that was super grindy that actually had an in game bot system to help balance gains.
Obviously not looking for a bot system here, but a way to interact with the verse away from the desk would be neat.

 

[maynard]

I recall CR saying you should be able to move up from a starter ship to a Freelancer class ship with a week's worth of missions

IMO Capital ships should require a sustained group effort to acquire

 

[Michael]

My guestimation from the current system is:
Chris once said you should need around 20 hours gameplay to get a constellation. (Well i don't think its realistic so assume ~40 hours)
Currently it seems like they want to have around 500 UEC/h income with starter ships (in relative safe space)
1000 - 2000 UEC/h for advanced ships
Hell a lot more UEC/h with "endgame" ships.

(this is just for the basic ship, no military grade gear, no maintenance, no insurence, no special weapons)

So i would expect a "starter" will cost ~2000-5.000 UEC = 5-10 hours = 1 week for the casual player
"advanced small ships" (like 300i) ~5.000 - 10.000 UEC = 10-20 hours = 1-2 week
Ships like freelancer will cost ~10.000 UEC = 20 hours = 2 weeks
Constellation (taurus) will cost ~20.000 UEC = 20-40 hours = 2 Weeks - 4 weeks
Constellation (aquila) will cost ~40.000 UEC = 40-80 hours = 4 Weeks - 8 weeks
...

From the current pricing i would expect fully upgraded Aquila will take the casual player ~ 2-4 month.
So i guess an Idris will take years of effort for a single player in safe space

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

My guestimation from the current system is:
Chris once said you should need around 20 hours gameplay to get a constellation. (Well i don't think its realistic so assume ~40 hours)
Currently it seems like they want to have around 500 UEC/h income with starter ships (in relative safe space)
1000 - 2000 UEC/h for advanced ships
Hell a lot more UEC/h with "endgame" ships.

(this is just for the basic ship, no military grade gear, no maintenance, no insurance, no special weapons)

So i would expect a "starter" will cost ~2000-5.000 UEC = 5-10 hours = 1 week for the casual player
"advanced small ships" (like 300i) ~5.000 - 10.000 UEC = 10-20 hours = 1-2 week
Ships like freelancer will cost ~10.000 UEC = 20 hours = 2 weeks
Constellation (taurus) will cost ~20.000 UEC = 20-40 hours = 2 Weeks - 4 weeks
Constellation (aquila) will cost ~40.000 UEC = 40-80 hours = 4 Weeks - 8 weeks
...

From the current pricing i would expect fully upgraded Aquila will take the casual player ~ 2-4 month.
So i guess an Idris will take years of effort for a single player in safe space

Your numbers made me think/wonder something -

If we look at this game purely from an economical angle, whats the point in going for an Aquila when the Taurus will make much more UEC/h than it can purely through the economics of scale? Yeah you can go exploring in an Aquila but unless it makes more UEC/h than the Taurus is one not wasting their time?

Thinking about the referral system which rewards players for being good, can there be room in the 'Verse for other ways of progressing to the ship of your dreams? Like the Rep System - Be really good while not necessarily making the most UEC, like talking a lot of System Protection missions near Vanduul Space and could it be possible that the UEE could recognize your commitment to defending the empire and donate a Navy Surplus F7a to help you in your endeavors?

it's another way, I suppose. Same with being bad, if you do enough pirate raids could the Pirate King throw a Souped up Buccaneer your way?

Just examples - but with the breadth and scope of this huuuuuge game can it explore different ways of doing things on the MMO stage as well as the game mechanics and technology stages.

DISCLAIMER: I am not an MMO player, I have no idea if the above isn't already totally a thing.

 

[Michael]

Your numbers made me think/wonder something -

If we look at this game purely from an economical angle, whats the point in going for an Aquila when the Taurus will make much more UEC/h than it can purely through the economics of scale? Yeah you can go exploring in an Aquila but unless it makes more UEC/h than the Taurus is one not wasting their time?

Thinking about the referral system which rewards players for being good, can there be room in the 'Verse for other ways of progressing to the ship of your dreams? Like the Rep System - Be really good while not necessarily making the most UEC, like talking a lot of System Protection missions near Vanduul Space and could it be possible that the UEE could recognize your commitment to defending the empire and donate a Navy Surplus F7a to help you in your endeavors?

it's another way, I suppose. Same with being bad, if you do enough pirate raids could the Pirate King throw a Souped up Buccaneer your way?

Just examples - but with the breadth and scope of this huuuuuge game can it explore different ways of doing things on the MMO stage as well as the game mechanics and technology stages.

DISCLAIMER: I am not an MMO player, I have no idea if the above isn't already totally a thing.

Well i'm not a connie fan but if i remember right:
Aquila can hold the Ursa Rover (Okay Taurus might be able to hold it too (additional price))
Has a different cockpit (better view)
Has a Scanner (Taurus might be upgraded to that too (additional price))
Has better Shields, Power plant etc (Might be upgraded too))

So in the End of the day you can buy the taurus and modify it to be almost an aquila at additional cost (depends on the price of the modules). While you might be able to use the aquila as a taurus by simply unfitting some module, with "better view".

------------
I don't think we will get free ships but maybe we will get "reputation (points?)" which will give us access (in exchange to those points) to special stores and maybe a discount on them?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Well i'm not a connie fan but if i remember right:
Aquila can hold the Ursa Rover (Okay Taurus might be able to hold it too (additional price))
Has a different cockpit (better view)
Has a Scanner (Taurus might be upgraded to that too (additional price))
Has better Shields, Power plant etc (Might be upgraded too))

So in the End of the day you can buy the taurus and modify it to be almost an aquila at additional cost (depends on the price of the modules). While you might be able to use the aquila as a taurus by simply unfitting some module, with "better view".

------------
I don't think we will get free ships but maybe we will get "reputation (points?)" which will give us access (in exchange to those points) to special stores and maybe a discount on them?

But why even modify the Taurus?

Exploration is very unlikely to make more UEC than moving boxes and the other missions you'd be able to accomplish in a Taurus... unless you are put on a retainer to go explore by the UEE exploration costs money, it doesn't make it. Get an Aquila and thats probably the end of your journey towards that Carrak you were wanting to earn in game...

I am theorycrafting here, but I just can't see how exploration is a money maker unless you have a lot of scan-centric missions... Perhaps there will be, and they will lead to more unlicked missions later...? I think I'm coming at this from the wrong angle... it'll all come through in the balance :)

 

[Michael]

But why even modify the Taurus?

Exploration is very unlikely to make more UEC than moving boxes and the other missions you'd be able to accomplish in a Taurus... unless you are put on a retainer to go explore by the UEE exploration costs money, it doesn't make it. Get an Aquila and thats probably the end of your journey towards that Carrak you were wanting to earn in game...

I am theorycrafting here, but I just can't see how exploration is a money maker unless you have a lot of scan-centric missions... Perhaps there will be, and they will lead to more unlicked missions later...? I think I'm coming at this from the wrong angle... it'll all come through in the balance :slight_smile:

I think there are a lot of explorer dutys yet we don't know much about. (I'm holding a Dur for those reasons)
1. Fleet scout ( we don't know much about that yet )
- better Scanners are better at detecting enemy targets and maybe "cloaked" enemy ships approaching your position

2. Exploration ( we don't know much about that yet )
- finding bigger and / or better mining spots
- finding faster and better land (land claiming)
- finding hidden Spots with tougher enemys which will result in higher salvage/gear/"mission reward")
- finding better (hidden) salvage
- finding hidden pirate spots
- science spots (????!???)

Exploreres might have a lower signature than their competitioning ships ?
Exploreres might be faster than a competitioning ship (use them as a scout for the next big trade deal)
Explorers will most likely have bigger tanks and will travel "faster" because they don't need to stop for refueling very often. (forgot that point above)

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I think there are a lot of explorer dutys yet we don't know much about. (I'm holding a Dur for those reasons)
1. Fleet scout ( we don't know much about that yet )
- better Scanners are better at detecting enemy targets and maybe "cloaked" enemy ships approaching your position

2. Exploration ( we don't know much about that yet )
- finding bigger and / or better mining spots
- finding faster and better land (land claiming)
- finding hidden Spots with tougher enemys which will result in higher salvage/gear/"mission reward")
- finding better (hidden) salvage
- finding hidden pirate spots
- science spots (????!???)

Exploreres might have a lower signature than their competitioning ships ?
Exploreres might be faster than a competitioning ship (use them as a scout for the next big trade deal)
Explorers will most likely have bigger tanks and will travel "faster" because they don't need to stop for refueling very often. (forgot that point above)

Good points, I like forward to seeing how it all pans out :)