TEST Formation Flying

marcsand2

marcsand2

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A call to every pilot interested in formation flying!!! During events @GameFleek asked an interesting question: can Yellow Jackets perform a formation fly-by.... To be honest, formation flying needs some practice and some good equipment. I asked @AstroGimp01, a TESTie, from who I know that he does real life formation flying.
testsquadron.com

First formation flight in 3 months

So I finally wrapped up physical therapy on my knee after ACL reconstruction, got my medical certificate back, and flew my first formation flight since December - so much fun, great to be back in the cockpit. View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n92NfHB8vZE&feature=youtu.be 'Gimp
testsquadron.com testsquadron.com

It turned out that AstroGimp01 not only does real life formation flying, he also teaches formation flying IRL. About 4 weeks ago.... damn, time flies.... I asked if he was interested in SC TEST formation flying. Now we need to find pilots who also are interested in formation flying.

Required for formation flight:
  • head tracking, TrackIR or SC FOIP head tracking
  • precise control for:
  • pitch / yaw​
  • strafe on lateral / vertical axis​
  • throttle​
  • roll​
  • headset
If you are interested, post in this thread so we can organize some training.

@wmk
 
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DirectorGunner

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I have a new FOIP web cam, 60fps 1080p. But still keyboard and mouse. I have one right-handed metal flight stick. Still seeking a metal left-handed flight stick all these years later lol
But I would really like to at least watch
 
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Deroth

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No head tracking for me and I suspect my old dual t16000m sticks are too beat up for the level of precision formation flying requires.
 
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marcsand2

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Cugino83 said:
Hmm interesting... sadly I don't have an head traking system atm, but if this kicks in I'll defently bump it in my wish list for the rig...
Hope that if the event take place there will be some video of it
Click to expand...
In-game head tracking also will work. I don't know how good it is compared to TrackIR or similar, but you definitely will need it. @wmk and @GameFleek wanted to do some formation flying during TEST Rally Training, I wasn't prepared, so my TrackIR wasn't set up. I had to do it with freelook to keep track of wmk... it wasn't good. I was very close to wmk, but the desync let him change speed, so I wasn't able to track him all the time. TrackIR would have helped a lot there, knowing his direction and speed and knowing my direction and speed could have compensated for the desync. We only were flying in a straight line!!!!
 
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Deroth

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marcsand2 said:
You don't know until you try 😁
Click to expand...
They won't center properly anymore, I keep having to increase the dead zones, and even them I still get drift I have to fight against to get centered after a few months.
I'm guessing I need to take the apart, grease them, and maybe shim them...or replace the worst one with a metal stick and use the lesser messed up one for left hand/strafing.
 
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Cugino83

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DirectorGunner said:
I have a new FOIP web cam, 60fps 1080p. But still keyboard and mouse. I have one right-handed metal flight stick. Still seeking a metal left-handed flight stick all these years later lol
But I would really like to at least watch
Click to expand...
Does the cam work well? Which ccan did you use?

marcsand2 said:
In-game head tracking also will work. I don't know how good it is compared to TrackIR or similar, but you definitely will need it. @wmk and @GameFleek wanted to do some formation flying during TEST Rally Training, I wasn't prepared, so my TrackIR wasn't set up. I had to do it with freelook to keep track of wmk... it wasn't good. I was very close to wmk, but the desync let him change speed, so I wasn't able to track him all the time. TrackIR would have helped a lot there, knowing his direction and speed and knowing my direction and speed could have compensated for the desync. We only were flying in a straight line!!!!
Click to expand...
'know man, but you stil need a cam... and no cam for me in the desktop rig....
 
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BUTUZ

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I think the requirement for head tracking is going to exclude 80% of us. Is it really needed when you have third person view etc?
 
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Cugino83 said:
Does the cam work well? Which ccan did you use?
Click to expand...
My webcam cost me £25 it's a Microsoft HD3000 which has a max 720p and 30fps, and it works really well if you have desk lamp illumination in the room :)

i can't talk for any other webcam than the one I own though.

If you like total darkness while you play it's not going to work with mine, however I hear better things about some of the f2.0 lens 1080 60fps cameras, although I doubt they will do that well in darkness too.

He's a video of me using it in 3.5, it made a great leap in 3.6 too so this video is out of date with the illumination levels:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpHAsNHySzE

Look for Myres video. it's way better :)
 
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DirectorGunner

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marcsand2

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BUTUZ said:
I think the requirement for head tracking is going to exclude 80% of us. Is it really needed when you have third person view etc?
Click to expand...
At very close range, I don't think that 3rd person is an option, the visual reference part
View: https://youtu.be/K1IRZrKtPHU?t=210


jump forward to 244 seconds, 4 minutes and 4 seconds.
messing around with your field of view... I didn't think about that.... euhm, at max res I have 6400x1440, that is 40x9, even better than the 49" 32:9 Samsung displays... but mine has bezels... and the GPU goes down from 60 FPS to 40 FPS.... anyway.... I'm side tracking 😁

No head tracking would put you in a disadvantage. Here they are talking about 30 meters distance. I flew in formation with wmk at 50 meters, using freeview to mimic head tracking. I lost him a few times due to desync he was jumping forward and back, giving me no clue where he was, since with freeview I wasn't able to adjust angle without releasing my right stick...

hmmm... creative thinking... if you are able to control freeview with some thumb buttons, then you are able to get a good stable view of the lead plane. If that doesn't make some erratic movements, should work, but I'm not the pro.
 
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vahadar

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marcsand2 said:
No head tracking would put you in a disadvantage. Here they are talking about 30 meters distance. I flew in formation with wmk at 50 meters, using freeview to mimic head tracking. I lost him a few times due to desync he was jumping forward and back, giving me no clue where he was, since with freeview I wasn't able to adjust angle without releasing my right stick...
Click to expand...
Don't you think that desync will anyway be a problem headtracking or not? We were flying on a planet a few weeks ago (i think it was with you) with fighters and a carrack and we had a lot of desync, plus the inability to set the exact speed for each ship, you will need to constantly monitor and adjust your speed if you dont manage to set a speed close to your wingmates from start. I dont know how hotas can adjust speed precisely, but using keyboard (or slider on a stick) for speed dont do digits one by one, but by increments you cant really control (same for adjusting the speed limiter). But i'm open for advice here if you have good tips for formation flights :)
 
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wmk

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Honestly, I switch from 1st to 3rd person view frequently and I don't have any problems with controlling external camera while still controlling the ship, so I personally don't need any head tracking solution to fly in formation and stay on a right position. But no doubt, head tracking is very helpful for anyone flying in 1st person only.

The main problem at this moment is desync; the dev team is working on it with ETF right now, so hopefully they would manage to minimise it soon...
 
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marcsand2

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wmk said:
Honestly, I switch from 1st to 3rd person view frequently
Click to expand...
As lead or as wing 😉 lead only has to be a stable platform, wing has to stay close to lead.

wmk said:
The main problem at this moment is desync
Click to expand...
That depends on point of view. You were stable, only for me, Vahadar? and I'm not sure about Gamefleek, you were hopping forward and backward. That means: if we all were flying at the same speed as you, probably we were in the right spot.

vahadar said:
Don't you think that desync will anyway be a problem headtracking or not?
Click to expand...
Nope, I used a fixed free view, so I couldn't see where wmk was. With some desync, but in reality stable speed, he will jump back and forward. If you can follow him in your view, then you know his minimum and maximum position. Somewhere in between probably will be OK. If you can't follow him in your view, then you will loose him. A slight change in pitch or yaw will put you on a different flight path.

vahadar said:
you will need to constantly monitor and adjust your speed
Click to expand...
yeah, but if you know that it is desync, don't try to follow the desync, try to stay in an average good position.

In the LIS video, they also talked about desync, 5:32. That is why the 50 ms, because: ".. positional desync becomes worse with higher speed..."
 
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