The antisocial trend in MMOs

[Bruttle]

While I agree the world is full of these rude annoying moments I do not believe it stems from people purposefully being jerks but more an outcome of being wrapped up in themselves and their world to realize how their actions impact others.

I would tend to agree. Sometimes, people are just oblivious. They don't interact with the world around them. So when they are out in the world, they don't use common courtesy simply because they don't even register the people around them. They block isles because they don't notice other people trying to walk through. They cut people off because they never looked to see if there was traffic (scary, but it happens).

Sometimes though, it is a conscious disregard. Sometimes, they know you are there but simply don't care. They would rather push and shove, cut in line, talk over you, give you the finger, and dare you to do something. That's the part that gets me the most. It's when they look at you, acknowledge your presence, and give you that look like "the fuck you going to do about it". The passive aggressive asshats can safely do this because it's not a crime. It would be a crime though, if I were to do what they dare me to do. The Mr. Hyde in me really gets to rattling his cage when that happens.

And earlier still. "Father, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."

Ideals like this were excellent practice in the past. They are still good moral tutors. However, you can't just turn the other cheek. It'll just get your other cheek hit. You can't continually forgive others without continuing to place them in a position to require forgiveness.

As a result, I don't agree with complete pacifism. I think we should be courteous but not pacifistic. I agree it wouldn't be courteous to punch people in the face for being a complete asshole. However, the world would see far less people acting like assholes if you could respond to said behavior by punching them in the face.

 

[maynard]

trend? what rock have you been hiding under?

it was 2005 when 4chan's flying penises showed up in Second Life

asshattery has been around forever

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

As a result, I don't agree with complete pacifism. I think we should be courteous but not pacifistic. I agree it wouldn't be courteous to punch people in the face for being a complete asshole. However, the world would see far less people acting like assholes if you could respond to said behavior by punching them in the face.

There is something in the UK called the "Smacking Ban" which came in in 2005 which is basically if you strike your kid as punishment if you leave a mark you have officially assaulted them and have broken the law and are going to prison for up to 5 years.

What I have noticed since this came in is generations of kids who think they are untouchable and the oldest are now 13 and are complete and utter cun... arses.

The problem is once they are no longer kids, they are going to have this attitude and are going to be glassed in pubs. I can see it coming, a fucktonne of self entitled little toilets are going to wash up on the shores of reality when they turn 18 all battered and bruised and they are going to say "What did I do?" seeking sympathy but they won't get any off me or their parents who will have been waiting for someone to give them a kicking since they lurned how to tantrum in the supermarket at the age of 2.

You spill someones pint you take responsibility for your actions and get them another, for a start. You little pricks.

If they'd called it the "Spanking Ban" I don't think it would have got through the legal process because what MP is going to ban spanking? *vague reference to a million sex scandals*

 

[Thalstan]

Several things.

MMOs have been moving more towards casual content because that is where the market is. I remember 72 person raids and trying to maintain a guild that could sustain that. Then they lowered it to 54 person raids and honestly, it was still hard to maintain due to declining server populations.

Yes, they have moved to make it easier, but that is also so more people could enjoy content. Why spend tons of time and money on content only 20 percent of the subscriber base could enjoy when relevant? By moving towards a solo friendly environment with easier grouping mechanics, people who would not normally group/raid are able to do so. Unfortunately that also lets people act like jerks because there is no consequence for doing so, yeah, you get put on a few ignore lists, but it won’t kill your ability to play like it would in a guild. Unfortunately once people have been the victim of a jerk, they find it easier to be a jerk to others, continuing the cycle.

I prefer to play on my own, but I will play with select others. I’ve been in the same guild for the past 18 years in my other game(s). Test is also an org that has proven to have some staying power. Especially for a game not yet released and with little to no group play.

One of the best things about Test is the lack of effective public drama. Most of us have lived through guild/org splits in other games, are older, and in general, love to laugh at ourselves and at people trying to create drama. It’s really hard to create drama when everyone else is looking at it as entertainment and laughing at you for trying to make it. When people don’t even take themselves seriously, it really hard to take others seriously.

It’s summed up best with this

TEST Squadron Rules:
1. Have fun.
2. Don't be an ass.
3. Glory to Montoya

 

[Bruttle]

There is something in the UK called the "Smacking Ban" which came in in 2005 which is basically if you strike your kid as punishment if you leave a mark you have officially assaulted them and have broken the law and are going to prison for up to 5 years.

What I have noticed since this came in is generations of kids who think they are untouchable and the oldest are now 13 and are complete and utter cun... arses.

The same thing happened here in the states. It was all done with the best of intentions but with no discernment between constructive corporal punishment and abuse. They then attached the bloodhounds (read:witch hunters) that are the CPS department to the investigation and enforcement. What you have now is the ability for a pissed off 8 year old to put their parents in jail for taking their Ipad simply by lying. That's because there is little to no burden of proof.

This happened a couple generations back. It started for us back in the 90's. So when you mention that the oldest are "utter cun... arses", imagine it 20+ years down the line after they themselves had kids. That is what has run rampant across the US. When you look at all the youtube videos, hear the news, and scratch your head at the madness that is being labeled the "snowflake generation", keep in mind that this is part of the equation.

For a couple years now, this generation has been hitting the universities. They bring with them all the misplaced ideals and morals that you would expect from a group that has never had to deal with repercussions. Add in to that the fact that since birth, they have been told that even last place is a "winner" and if you participate, you have succeeded.

The end result is that the derogatory label "snowflake" is still letting them off easy. Don't get me wrong. It doesn't apply to everyone. There are still good kids growing up every day. However, when looking at all the madness coming from our country, understand that we are two generations into thinking that corporal punishment is a criminal offense, everyone is a winner if you try, and the amount of effort that goes into "trying" is something that only you can define for yourself.

Now when I was growing up? When I lied I got the belt. When I stole I got the belt. When I talked back I got the belt. When I didn't get first place, I lost. When I didn't work my ass off, I was fired. When I complained, I was told to shut up and deal with it. When I scraped my knee, I was told to stop crying and be a man. When I broke something, I had to work and buy a replacement. I had a BB gun that I shot everything with (except my eye). I was told to respect my elders. I was required to help carry things. The list goes on and on.

According to today's standards though, my parents were horrible people. They enforced the "misogynistic patriarchy" and were "abusive". They placed "unachievable expectations" on me and set "unreasonable goals" in my fragile little mind. They committed "physical abuse" and caused "emotional trauma".

The reality is, they raised me to be a courteous, respectful, hard working, person. I wouldn't have it any other way and I love them all the more for it. The ethics and morals they instilled and enforced in me have brought me the success I now enjoy. It couldn't have happened any other way. The "utter cun... arses" were never taught these things and will either fail miserably in the real world, or be forced to learn faster than they ever have in their entire shitty little lives.

Or, they will block the isle like an inconsiderate shit and irritate me when I have to go out into the real world....

 

[supitza]

The same thing happened here in the states. It was all done with the best of intentions but with no discernment between constructive corporal punishment and abuse. They then attached the bloodhounds (read:witch hunters) that are the CPS department to the investigation and enforcement. What you have now is the ability for a pissed off 8 year old to put their parents in jail for taking their Ipad simply by lying. That's because there is little to no burden of proof.

This happened a couple generations back. It started for us back in the 90's. So when you mention that the oldest are "utter cun... arses", imagine it 20+ years down the line after they themselves had kids. That is what has run rampant across the US. When you look at all the youtube videos, hear the news, and scratch your head at the madness that is being labeled the "snowflake generation", keep in mind that this is part of the equation.

For a couple years now, this generation has been hitting the universities. They bring with them all the misplaced ideals and morals that you would expect from a group that has never had to deal with repercussions. Add in to that the fact that since birth, they have been told that even last place is a "winner" and if you participate, you have succeeded.

The end result is that the derogatory label "snowflake" is still letting them off easy. Don't get me wrong. It doesn't apply to everyone. There are still good kids growing up every day. However, when looking at all the madness coming from our country, understand that we are two generations into thinking that corporal punishment is a criminal offense, everyone is a winner if you try, and the amount of effort that goes into "trying" is something that only you can define for yourself.

Now when I was growing up? When I lied I got the belt. When I stole I got the belt. When I talked back I got the belt. When I didn't get first place, I lost. When I didn't work my ass off, I was fired. When I complained, I was told to shut up and deal with it. When I scraped my knee, I was told to stop crying and be a man. When I broke something, I had to work and buy a replacement. I had a BB gun that I shot everything with (except my eye). I was told to respect my elders. I was required to help carry things. The list goes on and on.

According to today's standards though, my parents were horrible people. They enforced the "misogynistic patriarchy" and were "abusive". They placed "unachievable expectations" on me and set "unreasonable goals" in my fragile little mind. They committed "physical abuse" and caused "emotional trauma".

The reality is, they raised me to be a courteous, respectful, hard working, person. I wouldn't have it any other way and I love them all the more for it. The ethics and morals they instilled and enforced in me have brought me the success I now enjoy. It couldn't have happened any other way. The "utter cun... arses" were never taught these things and will either fail miserably in the real world, or be forced to learn faster than they ever have in their entire shitty little lives.

Or, they will block the isle like an inconsiderate shit and irritate me when I have to go out into the real world....

Yes. 10/10. If coherent writing was one of my superpowers, this is what I'd have written.

 

[Bambooza]

Yes, they have moved to make it easier, but that is also so more people could enjoy content. Why spend tons of time and money on content only 20 percent of the subscriber base could enjoy when relevant? By moving towards a solo friendly environment with easier grouping mechanics, people who would not normally group/raid are able to do so.

I've heard this argument multiple times and while it is true that making the content easier allows more to enjoy it, and yet it also removes the challenge as well as the reward. With in a MMO there needs to be degrees of difficulty that allow the core hard core game community that leave and breath the game to challenge themselves, brag about and continue to be engaged with. For its them that form the fundamental community that keeps the others coming back. For how often do the casual player log in for 5 to 10 mins find no one on or nothing happening then log out to find something else to do? For while the casual player does make up the bulk of the player population they value their limited free time and so are looking to maximize the game play potential. And while they might not have the time or desire to spend hours grinding on a difficult objective and even if they are content to craft and harvest they still require the social interaction with known friends. So it comes back to needing to keep the hard core gamer engaged and involved as they become the glue that binds a community together.

Unfortunately that also lets people act like jerks because there is no consequence for doing so, yeah, you get put on a few ignore lists, but it won’t kill your ability to play like it would in a guild. Unfortunately once people have been the victim of a jerk, they find it easier to be a jerk to others, continuing the cycle.

A bad apple spoils the bunch. While it holds true outside the online community it seems to be far more prevalent and far quicker in the game world.

Or, they will block the isle like an inconsiderate shit and irritate me when I have to go out into the real world....

I wish I could say its the young people more consistent with this but far more often its the elderly whom seem to be the biggest offender.

Sometimes though, it is a conscious disregard. Sometimes, they know you are there but simply don't care. They would rather push and shove, cut in line, talk over you, give you the finger, and dare you to do something. That's the part that gets me the most. It's when they look at you, acknowledge your presence, and give you that look like "the fuck you going to do about it". The passive aggressive asshats can safely do this because it's not a crime. It would be a crime though, if I were to do what they dare me to do. The Mr. Hyde in me really gets to rattling his cage when that happens.

They just need to be taught social graces by physical pain as they seem to either have never been taught or have since forgotten. It really is a shame that such actions would lead to ones arrest, and to a degree I can understand. But still, how much better would society be if these individuals were educated.

 

[BUTUZ]

Everything we see in game is just a reflection of the degradation in society.

Imagine what it's going to be like in 10 years time!

 

[Sraika]

Everything we see in game is just a reflection of the degradation in society.

Imagine what it's going to be like in 10 years time!

 

[Bambooza]

I'm not sure if such a prospect scares or delights me. Its the same with a zombie outbreak.

 

[Thalstan]

I've heard this argument multiple times and while it is true that making the content easier allows more to enjoy it, and yet it also removes the challenge as well as the reward. With in a MMO there needs to be degrees of difficulty that allow the core hard core game community that leave and breath the game to challenge themselves, brag about and continue to be engaged with. For its them that form the fundamental community that keeps the others coming back. For how often do the casual player log in for 5 to 10 mins find no one on or nothing happening then log out to find something else to do? For while the casual player does make up the bulk of the player population they value their limited free time and so are looking to maximize the game play potential. And while they might not have the time or desire to spend hours grinding on a difficult objective and even if they are content to craft and harvest they still require the social interaction with known friends. So it comes back to needing to keep the hard core gamer engaged and involved as they become the glue that binds a community together.

I’ve seen your response many time. Yes, there are the “hardcore” players. They make up about 10 percent or less of a games population. More casual players make up about 90 percent. Considering hard core members often leave after devouring content and wait for the next expansion while casuals continue to subscribe and grind over the course of the next two years...who do you think really pays for that game? Hint, it’s not the hardcore players. Instead it’s the filthy casual who plays maybe twice as long to accomplish what you did, but they still accomplish it. Don’t take it away from them. They worked just as hard, but over a longer period of time. So yes, I am all for casual gameplay, but I think there needs to be content for the hardcore player as well. However, the casual should be able to accomplish it over time, even if they can’t do it right away like you could.

 

[Bambooza]

And this is where you have to be careful with the player population. There needs to be enough content to keep the hardcore players engaged as they are the pillars of the game community. They are the ones who organize events form and lead organizations. They are the ones who form the social connection between casual players as they are online for hours that allow the small window casual players invest into a game weekly to have meaning and a purpose. It is also the hardcore gamers achievements and loot that inspires the casual player to stick with it over the long haul.

They both have their purpose and I am not here to say one is better then the other for both matter. It is just I have seen a number of game developers as their game ages slew their game development to cater to the 90% at the expense of the 10% which does make since from a player number perspective but it is detrimental to the community which finds the core player group disenfranchised which leads to their disengagement and with out them being online the casual player sees no one online during their initial game window so they may hang out for a few minutes but typically log off which leads to the next casual player to often just miss the first and so the cycle continues. Before long the casual player doesn't even to bother logging in and moves on to the next popular game.

Blizzard a weird relationship with the hardcore gamer as they at times try to court them then ignore them in WoW. They now seem to have given up on the Hard Core gamer and tried to bypass the service they provided by allowing pug raid groups. Which does work in a way but I imagine for those who do it its a mix bag.

 

[Han Burgundy]

I'm an antisocial gamer because people generally suck. No Mystery there. It seems like the instant you remove one's ability to get punched in the face, they turn into a huuuge asshole.