The Last Jedi - Spoilers

[DarthMatter]

Poe was made out to be some careless/reckless flyboy when his actual job is to be a confident steely-eyed man of action who will do anything it takes to secure victory, at least that is how he was sketched out in TFA. His constant dressing down by the estrogen brigade in this was truly aggravating.

To TLDR my previous comment:
I think he still has a "do anything to secure victory", with the problem being that he only saw one way to win: destroy the enemy ships here and now. Not enough long to super long term planing to be the leader.

 

[Passeeo]

To TLDR my previous comment:
I think he still has a "do anything to secure victory", with the problem being that he only saw one way to win: destroy the enemy ships here and now. Not enough long to super long term planing to be the leader.

I'm sorry but this and your previous response falls really wide of the mark .
He already is in a command position and the loss of so many people when they are already down to incredibly low numbers to take out ONE ship when the First order clearly have more Dreadnoughts up their sleeve was insanely reckless and a fitting move for a cadet not a commander/captain in the resistance when they are just trying to get away.


He just commanded an entire group of people to their deaths and needed the gravitas explained to him? Not only that he doesn't get it until a bunch more people have died flying headfirst towards the "Death star Battering ram" (i honestly cannot believe i am writing these words).

"I guess enough people have died now, we should not do this anymore"

This is a character we are supposed to get behind and is probably going to have to carry forward a resistance movement?

Cool.

It's been 24 hrs since i have seen this film and i'm no longer confused as to why i was walking out of the cinema feeling empty about this and why my nephew also had the same look on his young face.
Now i'm just more and more angry as i play this movie out in my head and all i can see is Luke's goddamn face dribbling blue milk down his chin after milking a GIANT TIT.

 

[DarthMatter]

I'm sorry but this and your previous response falls really wide of the mark .
He already is in a command position and the loss of so many people when they are already down to incredibly low numbers to take out ONE ship when the First order clearly have more Dreadnoughts up their sleeve was insanely reckless and a fitting move for a cadet not a commander/captain in the resistance when they are just trying to get away.

How does it fall wide of the mark?
Your problem isn't that he is stupid or that it was a stupid decision to try and blow up the dreadnought made by a decorated officer?

I may not have phrased myself in the best way, but I doubt anyone in this forum does. Or I missed/misread something. I may be fluent in English, but sometimes I still find phrases I think I know used in ways I wasn't expecting...

What I tried to show before was a way that I think his style of warfare could be really useful in the beginning and he rose in the ranks at that time. As the war changed he didn't change with it causing him to make bad decisions. I'd argue that that doesn't make him stupid, since to take a chance to defeat a big threat like that dreadnought (while taking less losses than the enemy) would be the correct thing to do according to his style of warfare. (Which I would describe as aggressive, take opportunities when they show themselves, "Kill all enemy ships faster than he can kill yours and you win the war" and focused on value for every encounter. Works well enough when the forces are the same strength (beginning of the war), not when you are vastly outgunned/numbered (later in the war as the Resistance doesn't have the same recruitment power as the First order, due to the Republic... blowing up).)

 

[Blind Owl]

I felt like he was just really good at what he was doing, and as long as things went well and the Resistance had resources to back him up he could continue to be the hero and get decorated for it. It's not until the end where they have to switch over to "desperate survival" that his style gets to costly. Poe realizes that it's costly but thinks the Resistance will win by killing the enemy while the rest of the Resistance leaders (mostly old Rebell leaders) who has done this before knows that they will win by just giving it time for people to rise up against their oppressors.
I don't think he is dumb, just blinded by what he sees as the only path to victory.

I concur. I believe this is called "character development".

 

[Passeeo]

I understand the point you are making perfectly well.

I do have a problem with Poe running in like a headless chicken to get some glory kill on a big ship and getting the people he commanded killed.

However this isn't the biggest problem with this premise or this character.

It is more the fact that instead of feeling the weight of the decision he made, he stood there pouting like he was right while getting a dressing down by Leia and he conveniently doesn't "get it" until the final act of the movie.
He feels no remorse for the lives he spent while Leia is explaining this to him, he displays no remorse when Holdo gives him a further "Motherly" dressing down and doesn't change his mind on this approach until he speeds headfirst into his and his fellow pilots apparent doom.
However he tempers this head-strong approach at the wrong time in this film.
He doesn't know that Luke is going to show up, he doesn't know there is a backdoor out of the place. This is exactly the moment when you might as well throw a "Hail Mary" and suicide yourself into the weapon to save everybody else / buy time for the help they were hoping for to come.
Instead this is left to Finn who is about to make the ultimate sacrifice and gets conveniently saved in an impossible way.

This would have been the one of the "brave" choices from the director that could have actually had some pay off.
Instead Finn is saved just in time for about the 3rd time in this movie because there already is a dearth of semi-likeable characters left to carry this film into the next episode.
Luke turns up and buys time for them even though he also has no clue there is a backdoor out of the place.
This could take me down the rabbit hole but i'll shut up now.

 

[Nap]

Call me a Star Wars purist, but I didn't like it as a Star Wars movie. It was a good MOVIE, but that wasn't Star Wars. The pacing was bad, Fin's arc is pointless, Didnt focus on the force or Luke enough, rebels have a weird habit for being the only thing to survive massive explosions, Fin and Rey's reunion was weak (Tho I think Poe's gonna tap that) I'll have to see it again to watch for plot subtleties, but as it stands now: 6.5 out of 10

/$0.02

This was pretty much my view as well. It seemed like they wanted to copy Gaurdians of the galaxy as more of a comedic sci-fi movie rather than a story driven star wars movie. While many of the scenes were funny they fit more in the Gaurdians of the galaxy universe rather then Star Wars. For instance, the opening joke about holding for the commander or Luke dusting his shoulders off. I laughed but didn't feel they were appropriate. I did love Del Toro's character though. I would have to say this was the worst of the Star Wars films for me.

 

[SeungRyul]

Liked the film overall.

Definitely bothered by the space battle physics (dropping bombs, green laser arced trajectories). The bombing scene was definitely epic to be sure though.

 

[Talonsbane]

I haven't seen it yet, but I believe it would have been better with us TESTies zipping around destroying everything in our usual style. Take that Cylons! (I'm j/k about the cylons)

 

[AstroGimp01]

I haven't seen it yet, but I believe it would have been better with us TESTies zipping around destroying everything in our usual style. Take that Cylons! (I'm j/k about the cylons)

TEST Star Wars, Best Star Wras.

'Gimp

 

[Talonsbane]

IMO, the ultimate use of "The Force" is to create TEST Beer, the best beer for you wonderful TESTies to enjoy & dominate the Verse while intoxicated with.

 

[Sirus7264]

It wasnt bad and it wasnt great it was so-so which i don't expect from a star wars title.

Spoiler: Don't read until you have watched.

Didn't like the following:
The fin arc was completely useless as it really did nothing for the story except seperate the potential of rey and fin being closer.

Luke skywalker did not teach rey really anything and just died off really maybe in the next movie he will come back as a ghost and teach something to her. I feel she was inadequately trained and they rushed that whole sequence.

The master code breaker they never did say which guy was truely the master code breaker the guy in prison or the guy in the casino. And then the code breaker just betrayed them in the end even though he seemed to care about them? Who is this guy why is he in the movie his character was so incomplete it wasn't funny

Why didn't the fleet split up one by one going at light speed to other places or just basicly turning to go their seperate ways why stay huddled together and get destroyed one by one. Over 10 hours they could have been far far away from each other.

the obvious and already put point why didnt the vice admiral turn around and hit the fleet faster when they started to attack the transports

Who the hell was snook and why was he such a push over i thought this guy was supposed to be a godly sith character but he dies before he does anything no epic show of power or anything just poof dead rip snook. Is he not the one emperor palpateen was talking about who could cheat death? did he cheat dead in that scene or was he just another worthless casted character?

Now the things that i liked about the movie

The diversity in the crew and the addition of new sub and primary characters to help replace the dieing off old cast.

They didnt remove leia and showed she was a part of the force in some ways

the compassion ben shows to his mother and that he does still have hope to be converted to the other side despite what everyone is thinking. His character is in such limbo that he can't truely choose what he wants to do and what his ultimate motives are.

Skywalkers hologram scene and quotes to ben about not leaving him if he strikes him down.

Yoda is still teaching luke shows that luke still has much to learn

The mirror scene leading up to tell rey who she really is im sure we all know.

BB8 in a trashcan to show that any moving box could be a droid as all the guards ignored him.

the fight with phantasma even though she didn't have many scenes in the movie(GIVE HER A BIGGER PART DAMMIT)

The overall CG in the movie was good to very well made the level of detail on the dreadnought so on so forth.

 

[Bruce]

well ... it has a huge revelation ... it could be that night owl isn't night owl at all and he is a porg :)

 

[Talonsbane]

well ... it has a huge revelation ... it could be that night owl isn't night owl at all and he is a porg :slight_smile:

I recently heard that there is a theory in which the Porg are secretly the master manipulators & weavers of the force all while seeming cute & adorable. Your theory seems to almost mirror the other except instead @Blind Owl being a master weaver of the force he is the adorable deity of the "LIKE" button. (who happens to be fueled by seemingly endless amounts of alcohol.)

 

[AntiSqueaker]

spoilers, be wary


- The bombing scene, physics aside (apparently the bombs are magnetically launched downwards out of the bomber- momentum then takes over) was fucking amazing.

- The kamikaze lightspeed scene was probably one of the overall best and most poignant scenes in the entire franchise.

- Leia's superman force zoomie was weird

- Porgs are "so fucking cute omg I want a porg so bad" according to my wife.

- Where on earth does the First Order get all these giant ass ships? The "main" First Order Star Destroyer, the Resurgent-class is almost twice as long as the Empire's Victory-classes. Factor in the Supremacy, which is easily the largest canon ship we've seen at a staggering 13.5x60.5km (and can DOCK EIGHT STAR DESTROYERS????? TWO INTERNALLY???), the Mandator IV-class dreadnought the Resistance bombers blew up, and the metric fucktons of ground forces, TIE fighters, AT-ATs, etc etc, and you get a truly staggering amount of equipment that the First Order is getting from....somewhere? In The Force Awakens, the New Republic doesn't think the First Order is a threat, but how the fuck are they affording all of these giant ass ships?

- Some of the humor was good, some of it felt a bit....off.

- The Yoda scenes were so good.

 

[hardroc77]

I'm pretty sure that Luke will make an appearance. ;p

You mean Old man Colton??? Yeah he was there.

Why did the old base on Crait not have any orbital defense capability like the Ion Cannon on Hoth to prevent the landing in the first place.

because it wasn't in the script.

Call me a Star Wars purist, but I didn't like it as a Star Wars movie. It was a good MOVIE, but that wasn't Star Wars.

Agreed. I could not have said it better.

Spoiler: Spoiler

People in this movie DIE, even stormtroopers.

Damn you! I didn't want to know before hand. oh waIt, I saw it already. Never mind.

this was one of the most predictable movies ever put out. Right down to the ending.

I had a prediction you would say that.
But I agree. Every set up for an incidence or joke had my son look at me as if to say "Don't say it dad!"

but I believe it would have been better with us TESTies zipping around destroying everything in our usual style.

Oh hell yeah!

well ... it has a huge revelation ... it could be that night owl isn't night owl at all and he is a porg :slight_smile:

Oh look. Another toy item that Dis..y can shove down the throats of unaware children. "Momma, I want a porg. Now!"

 

[DarthMatter]

green laser arced trajectories

Then again, Star Wars has never been good at keeping Laser and Plasma separated, have they?

Oh look. Another toy item that Dis..y can shove down the throats of unaware children. "Momma, I want a porg. Now!"

Yeah, Star Wars was never about selling toys when George Lucas had it... wait...

 

[hardroc77]

Yeah, Star Wars was never about selling toys when George Lucas had it... wait...

Oh I agree, honestly. And I have nothing against that. Hell I bought the Stormtrooper helmet popcorn thingy myself. But after the little wooly bears in Return of the Jedi. it started to get, for me a little too much with alll the "aww ain't they cute" little critters clearly marketed for the single age kids to nag their parents for. Or the new and improved R2D2, BB Rebozo or what ever his name is. But I'm just an older cranky Ol' man so I guess that stuff is all is cool.
Just wait until Episodes X, XI, XII.... when they bring out the space fairies and such.

 

[Crymsan]

Okay so I thought it was okay and worth seeing but definitely not the 5 stars of the critics. I did not like the kid baddie he is not smart enough to not die in his sleep when the just as stupid General (talking about the comms scene here) kills him off or when he finally realises the cruiser can get him.

The fleeing ship and the empire (what does it call itself now) doesn't have anything to deal with it catch it or anything for what must be days. The whole premise of the story was on the very flimsy fuel requirement......

The resistance all fits on the falcon now so whats that 10?

 

[AntiSqueaker]

Okay so I thought it was okay and worth seeing but definitely not the 5 stars of the critics. I did not like the kid baddie he is not smart enough to not die in his sleep when the just as stupid General (talking about the comms scene here) kills him off or when he finally realises the cruiser can get him.

I have to disagree here. I think Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is one of the best villians we've had in Star Wars, and maybe one of the best characters overall. He's so conflicted and torn between his Light side (killing Snoke to save Rey, obviously being conflicted about shooting the Resistance cruiser to kill his mother) and the Dark side (taking over the First Order to be Supreme Leader, trying to "kill" the Sith and Jedi to start again). He's a young man with the weight of several worlds on his shoulder, who was dealing with normal teenage angst when he woke up and thought his uncle, who was probably closer to him than his own father was, was trying to kill him. No wonder he's so fucked up and emotional.

The fleeing ship and the empire (what does it call itself now) doesn't have anything to deal with it catch it or anything for what must be days. The whole premise of the story was on the very flimsy fuel requirement......

I think this at least makes sense. The Mon Calamari cruisers the Rebels/Resistance uses are much much smaller than the Star Destroyers the First Order uses. It makes sense that a lightly armed cruiser would have a faster sublight speed than the big bulky behemoths. The only plot hole I see is why the First Order didn't send a wing of TIE bombers with fighter escorts after the cruiser, since even the relatively slower Empire-era TIE/sa and TIE/LN ships could outstrip even the Falcon in sublight speed or atmo speed. Since Kylo had destroyed the Resistance cruisers fighter bay, it should have been relatively easy pickings for a wing of bombers to blow the ship to smithereens.

 

[Dorian Grey]

I came out of the theater excite and with a case of Blue Balls.... Odd feeling indeed....