The Outside: The Philosophical Hyjack Thread

NaffNaffBobFace

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So many paradox. Just like Torricelli's trumpet, you can fill it with paint but you can never cover it with paint.
I was going to respond to this hours ago but the cat took a dump in its tray and it threw me right off. I still haven't recovered.

Now, is this Devine Intervention? Did the hand of fate, or a time traveller or something else with the power to make a cat drop a dookie at a specific time intervene to cease my direction of cognitive travel?
 

Talonsbane

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I was going to respond to this hours ago but the cat took a dump in its tray and it threw me right off. I still haven't recovered.

Now, is this Devine Intervention? Did the hand of fate, or a time traveller or something else with the power to make a cat drop a dookie at a specific time intervene to cease my direction of cognitive travel?
Perhaps Schrödinger's cat's litter box?
 

Mudhawk

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Hmm, interesting - At some point in the future someone will know the answer to this and like Donnie Darko become a multi-dimentional being able to see the progression of time not from within it, but from outside of it and pick and choose which point of it to drop in on at will.
Who knows?
If someone finally manages to haul their ass out from the confinements of time, who can say if they'll ever feel the desire to go back there?
Maybe the whole point of becoming a multi-dimensional being is to get the hell out of Dodge.
And what about the other multi-dimensional beings?
Will they welcome the newcomer?
Or will there be a choir of "Back in time vagrants!!"?
I'm German. I inherently do not trust folks that are beyond being punctual... :-P

At this point the question is why have they (or a culture or the entire species if they have evolved it) have not popped back and let us know where we are going and what's going to happen? This is where multi-timelines/dimensions can come in to play in that who is to say they haven't and we're just plodding the original timeline where they discover the secret the first time before it is eventually discovered.
Asuming that someone had the time and muse to delve into the secrets of time and space to that degree it's safe to say that however society turned out as, science as such is thriving.
So the scientists in question are probably pondering if they should risk the new golden age to prevent a 3000 years period of eradication, regress, famine and pestilence and general human stupidity.
Well, if everything culminated in World-Peace (TM), the Star-League (-Fleet/ -shiptroopers) and a sustainable cohabitationon planets with various lifeforms, why the heck would they risk what has been achieved just to flip an "I'm more technological advanced than you loosers" in the face of their unenlightened predesessors?
Don't fix it if it ain't broken.
And if it's broken, who has the time to worry about time?
Well maybe Loki would.
One of the Lokis anyhow.
Probably the alligtor...
 
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Mudhawk

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Much like as it was mentioned, 'if you know everything you can know the future'. Maybe an answer a little less complicated than the ultimate equation to life.
Dunno, "42" seems staightforward enough for me.
Apart from that: "If you know everything, you CAN already know the future."
Everything, like infinity, allows for no strays or exceptions.

 

NaffNaffBobFace

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Who knows?
If someone finally manages to haul their ass out from the confinements of time, who can say if they'll ever feel the desire to go back there?
Maybe the whole point of becoming a multi-dimensional being is to get the hell out of Dodge.
And what about the other multi-dimensional beings?the extra set of dimen
Will they welcome the newcomer?
Or will there be a choir of "Back in time vagrants!!"?
I'm German. I inherently do not trust folks that are beyond being punctual... :-P
Someone's always got to be first... someone's always got to be last... at least on our limited set of dimensions. Would the definition of there "already" being inhabitants of the extra set of dimensions mean nothing if there is no concept of linear time...?

For example migration on Earth says you are moving from one place to another but take one step back to the continental or global level and you are not moving anywhere - you're still on earth.

As linier time would be a minor part of that level of reality, just as 2D artifacts like images are a minor part of our 3D world, which can no more be inhabited by us than perhaps a 4D time-spanning being would be able to interact or inhabit our 3D level of reality... once transitioned to extra-dimentionality... would they be able to come back and interact with us...?

Assuming that someone had the time and muse to delve into the secrets of time and space to that degree it's safe to say that however society turned out as, science as such is thriving.
So the scientists in question are probably pondering if they should risk the new golden age to prevent a 3000 years period of eradication, regress, famine and pestilence and general human stupidity.
Well, if everything culminated in World-Peace (TM), the Star-League (-Fleet/ -shiptroopers) and a sustainable cohabitationon planets with various lifeforms, why the heck would they risk what has been achieved just to flip an "I'm more technological advanced than you loosers" in the face of their unenlightened predesessors?
Don't fix it if it ain't broken.
And if it's broken, who has the time to worry about time?
Well maybe Loki would.
One of the Lokis anyhow.
Probably the alligtor...
And here we have the issue of personal Agenda. You loose the lottery because the numbers are not pre-determined. It's only possible to know the result after the point it happened. Jump in your time machine the moment the draw has happed, travel back to a legitimate time to place your bet, and just wait for time to catch up with you and for the draw to deliver you your wealth. So that with anything a person could want for, avoid a mess-up at work by travelling back and warning yourself of the impending disaster etc, and that's not to mention ideologies, or the simple lust for anarchy which resides inside some people etc etc etc there are plenty of reasons why people may want to disrupt what happened to influence what will happen.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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So with all this time travel talk it does bring one to question the galactic speed limit: the speed of light. Why can it go no faster even when speed is added to it?

As famously depicted In the Movie Superman 1, there is a theory is that if you can travel faster than light you can travel back in time. The Man of Steel flew so fast around the world he flew faster than the passage of time and returned to a point in time before he left and thus was able to save his friends who had previously perished.

Apparently, to our understanding to this point though, If you try to send something faster than light that additional energy converts to mass instead of additional speed. Superman would have just become heavier at the Speed of Light barrier, not gone past it... Is the speed of light itself the speed of time passing and it can go no faster because there is no additional time for it to go faster in? If speed = distance over time, and there is enough distance and speed to allow that faster state the only limit I can see in that formula... is the speed time passes itself...?

If time is a fixed arbitrary amount we observe as being the speed of light at 299,792,458m/s is it possible that amount was different in the past and the speed of light was faster or slower than the 299,792,458m/s we know today? And if it was, can this help explain the expansion of the universe? If the light which sets off from distant starts started off when the speed of light was slower, it would look like those stars are further away because the light took longer to get here due to its universal constant speed being lower when it set off... which then asks the question does light keep the universal constant which is the speed of light it was forged under or does it become subject to the speed of light under the current universal constant speed which is present today, which could manifest itself in Red/Blue-Shift where the wavelength is stretched/compressed to accommodate the new conditions it is under? We have cameras today which are so fast we are able to record a passing light ray on its traversal thus making its speed recordable. Has anyone to this point looked at a billion year old light ray arriving from one of the further away stars and checked that ray is actually moving at 299,792,458m/s...? Perhaps cameras are not that good yet for light that dim... but it's only a matter of (heh) time until they are.

Or, another way to think about it, is In SC top speed is limited by the Servers. 2000m/s is the fastest speed there is, I went this fast in a death tumble in a 350R over Crusader (engines off) and it turns out 2000m/s is the Server Speed Limit as confirmed by other players who'd also reached that speed due to bugs and other oddities. If existence is a simulation, is 299,792,458m/s the Server Speed limit... and does this mean the 'Verse is currently 0.0006% replication of reality and the server speed cap can be used as a reliable measure against our ability to make an accurate simulated recreation of reality itself in the first place?

And this brings us back to our talk about time-travel: Once we have a simulation which can accurately recreate reality we need not do time travel at all - we can just fast-forward or rewind the simulation like it was a VHS tape and take a look at what really happened in history like we were really there and what will happen in the future to a reliable margin of error, at which point we can learn the simulations future knowledge and recreate its advanced technologies without fear as they would basically have been invented by the simulation, not by physical lived history itself... there can be no paradox or damage to a timeline which has not been traversed... you just need a simulation accurate enough and a computer fast enough to be able to outpace real life to look forward and simulate future discoveries yet to be made.
 
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Mudhawk

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Yepp, all of this.
And then I feel the urge to take a dump and empty a bottle of Lhagavulin 16y to apeace my raging thoughts.
Next thing I'll probaly do some Zen meditation to clear the cache and reboot my brain.
At that point I will most likely come to the realisation that in order to increase velocity first you reduce balast.
Or you reduce friction.
Ideally you reduce both.
Find the Superconductor of the Space-Time structure so you can reach any point of the network with zero energy spent.
Once you can do that you'll find that the place you are at is actually any possible place that ever existed.
And when that realizations hits, you better hope there's another bottle of Lhagavulin 16y at hand.
Can even be the one you already downed.
It's all the same anyway.
Guess the trick is to accept that the hen sits on the egg that gave birth to it.
Or you look into a mirror and go Darth Vader on yourself:
"I'm your father"
"Nooooooo!!!"

PS: So this is philosophy? Because I sure as hell don't know the math to back up my ramblings.
 
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Talonsbane

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My best concept of "time travel" is a bit more simplistic. When I'm bored, time seems to move more slowly, when I'm entertained or happy, it moves more quickly & when I fall asleep, it seems to have changed a reasonably random amount when I wake up. I say random amount, because sometimes it'll feel like I've slept for a short time, but 8+ hours have passed, other times, it feels like I've spent a lifetime in my dreams, only to wake up an hour or so later. *shrugs* Go figure, but such is life sometimes.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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My best concept of "time travel" is a bit more simplistic. When I'm bored, time seems to move more slowly, when I'm entertained or happy, it moves more quickly & when I fall asleep, it seems to have changed a reasonably random amount when I wake up. I say random amount, because sometimes it'll feel like I've slept for a short time, but 8+ hours have passed, other times, it feels like I've spent a lifetime in my dreams, only to wake up an hour or so later. *shrugs* Go figure, but such is life sometimes.
That's a bit like Eisenstein and Relativity, but with other aspects outside of relative speed etc.

The question I have is if one got so bored doing something would they essentially be, relatively, immortal in that every second would last a lifetime? And if the perfect time-dragging boredom to time-speeding interest ratio be found could you get someone to get double the amount of shit done in half the time it takes everyone else to do it?

'y know when you get in to Flowe hyperfocus and everything you are doing becomes effortless like it's second-nature? Kind of like that but with the passage of time rather than attention.
 
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Talonsbane

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That's a bit like Eisenstein and Relativity, but with other aspects outside of relative speed etc.

The question I have is if one got so bored doing something would they essentially be, relatively, immortal in that every second would last a lifetime? And if the perfect time-dragging boredom to time-speeding interest ratio be found could you get someone to get double the amount of shit done in half the time it takes everyone else to do it?

'y know when you get in to Flowe hyperfocus and everything you are doing becomes effortless like it's second-nature? Kind of like that but with the passage of time rather than attention.
When I get bored enough, my mind starts to wander & evaluate all sorts of random things. I once got so bored that my mind zoned out & it was as though I was watching over my own shoulder, zooming out from 1st person, then to 3rd, then further & further until I was eventually watching the Milky Way galaxy ever so slowly spinning. When I was snapped out of that state physically, my adrenaline had spiked so much everything was in an almost bullet-time sort of state. I picked up the ringing phone & a friend was needing a ride home, so I went to pick her up, not realizing that everything was in ultra slow mode until she & her friend were screaming at me to slow down. I was in an old 1984 Buick Skylark & was somehow flying through the evening traffic at over 90 mph with the speedometer needle pegged. All the while, everything had seemed calm & tranquil to me as we chatted about things like we were driving down a residential street. So I'd definitely believe that your questions might have plausible answers, if the conditions were able to achieve them.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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When I get bored enough, my mind starts to wander & evaluate all sorts of random things. I once got so bored that my mind zoned out & it was as though I was watching over my own shoulder, zooming out from 1st person, then to 3rd, then further & further until I was eventually watching the Milky Way galaxy ever so slowly spinning. When I was snapped out of that state physically, my adrenaline had spiked so much everything was in an almost bullet-time sort of state. I picked up the ringing phone & a friend was needing a ride home, so I went to pick her up, not realizing that everything was in ultra slow mode until she & her friend were screaming at me to slow down. I was in an old 1984 Buick Skylark & was somehow flying through the evening traffic at over 90 mph with the speedometer needle pegged. All the while, everything had seemed calm & tranquil to me as we chatted about things like we were driving down a residential street. So I'd definitely believe that your questions might have plausible answers, if the conditions were able to achieve them.
The mind and how it interprets existence is in an incredibly powerful - and complex - thing, isn't it?
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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Oooh, I responded to one of my posts on TEST Spectrum (I'm one of the only ones who posts there so it's mostly me I have to talk to over there) and came up with this:


"Remember, it's not ignorance if it's wilful - it's denial".

The question I have is.... is that correct?
 
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Talonsbane

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Oooh, I responded to one of my posts on TEST Spectrum (I'm one of the only ones who posts there so it's mostly me I have to talk to over there) and came up with this:


"Remember, it's not ignorance if it's wilful - it's denial".

The question I have is.... is that correct?
Depending on the situation or scenario, I'd guess it could be either yes or no. If all else fails, we'll TESTify the answer, call it #42 BEER
 
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Drowez

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When I get bored enough, my mind starts to wander & evaluate all sorts of random things. I once got so bored that my mind zoned out & it was as though I was watching over my own shoulder, zooming out from 1st person, then to 3rd, then further & further until I was eventually watching the Milky Way galaxy ever so slowly spinning. When I was snapped out of that state physically, my adrenaline had spiked so much everything was in an almost bullet-time sort of state. I picked up the ringing phone & a friend was needing a ride home, so I went to pick her up, not realizing that everything was in ultra slow mode until she & her friend were screaming at me to slow down. I was in an old 1984 Buick Skylark & was somehow flying through the evening traffic at over 90 mph with the speedometer needle pegged. All the while, everything had seemed calm & tranquil to me as we chatted about things like we were driving down a residential street. So I'd definitely believe that your questions might have plausible answers, if the conditions were able to achieve them.
That sounds like a good trip....Shrooms or doses? :glorious:
 
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Talonsbane

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That sounds like a good trip....Shrooms or doses? :glorious:
Fully sober actually. Though, if you're looking for a bizarre psychedelically experience, when I was 16 I had 1 by staying awake for 12 days straight. Yes, I was sober for that as well, I just had a LOT going on & couldn't get to sleep.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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Aloha and salutations my most GLORIOUS Testies, I've seen an interesting aside in a thread and thought it would make good mental floss for The Outside:

Discussion on players being kicked for using exploits and how that could be argued to just be the state of the game and could have been foreseen:


sort-of-hyjack - Certain cultures/backgrounds tolerate/accept/pursue such conduct more actively than others:

Is this an overgeneralisation? Or are there certain cultures that really will pursue exploits in games more than other cultures? I know plenty of Anglo-Saxon heritage people who pursue the same gratifications but as that background makes up the majority of the servers I'm on it gets diluted a bit, however if all of them were booted from out local servers and had to go over to Antepodean servers to carry on their exploits would it not look like the majority of Anglo-Sax heritage persons were tolerant/accept/pursue such conduct?
 
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