The Real Reason Star Citizen May Fail.

[Shadow Reaper]

I also believe that there should be character based progression, such as learning skills, or some type of pseudo-leveling mechanic.

I think you misunderstand the basic premise the game is predicated upon. There is skill progression, but these are real world player skills, not character skills. You don't earn a stat that makes you more able to use a scanner. You learn how to use a scanner yourself. That is the entire premise, and it is near revolutionary.

I hope you can understand and sympathize, adults all around the world are fed up playing online against kids with no adult responsibilities, who dominate cyber worlds becasue they play so many hours in a week. This isn't just the sign of poor decision making and bad parenting, its the sad fact that ruins games. Children run the online gaming world, and most of the most successful players are about 13 years old. That necessarily delivers an unsatisfying experience, where the leaders lack maturity and discipline, lack wisdom and gravitate toward instant gratification and cheezy melodrama. Gaming online mostly sucks, because children ruin the games for adults. IMHO.

SC was designed from the start to change that, by moving progressioin from the character to the player. You actually do better as you point that turret better. You can use EM warfare becasue you take the initiative to understand and use the proper game mechanics. This should in the long run be vastly more satisfying than having a character earn skills. It's the player who has or does not have the skills for any particular task.

If Star Citizen fails it will be for lack of conflict drivers.

Agreed. It's not just providing conflict, but the right kinds of conflict, that really will make or break the game, and we are still a long way from seeing enough of the game delvered to guess whether CIG will hit the mark here.

 

[Heartwood]

The Issue: The reason I believe Star Citizen will fail is simple. Progression, or rather a lack there of

Hi there!
In case the point has already been made, i am sorry. I did not read every post as i just jumped in to write a quick answer.

I love sandbox games and building up a character. This lead to the same train of thought for SC with the following outcome based on current information which may be out of date or simply not yet fully shaped:

- 1 - Progression through reputation

Job offers and some ships will only come with a certain reputation. This is pretty much progression towards a faction's standing with "rewards" based on your time and skill put in

- 2 - Progression through travel

I may want to play as a farmer. For that, i need materials and locations. Looking at possible solar systems and dangers that come with them (or not), i do believe we are in for different levels of difficulties in regards to open "world" experience.

What i mean by that is, that there may be a system with very rare materials (soils, minerals ...), which are difficult to get because there may be natural barriers (storms, radiation ...) or political tensions.

Going there may result in loss of ship and life. So to balance risk vs. reward, i need to have enough credit left in case i die. As i will need many trips to that system, i trade valuables for experience which i consider progressing through travel aka learning the game and getting better at it, so that my own risk vs. reward - balance can increase.

- 3 - Progression through story / hidden reputation

The game will highly likely offer NPC story elements that can be tracked and experienced. Like, you visitng a new town and seeing a cool NPC with a couple of chain quests. After you did all of those, he/she/it may send you off to another source and after hours or days, you just unlocked an entry into a hidden society = faction game play unlocked by your curiousity of a random encounter, which was story driven and resultet in a whole chapter of your SC career.

--> While this may sound a little feeble, it actually has unlimited potential based on your own creativity and desires. So if you only like to get better in combat with one ship, you will hit that mark rather soon. The only things to consider would be a) components best in slot for your play style and b) combat experience. When both are saturated, you wll perform at the highest and best level and may have achieved your goal.

Thats why orgs and org activities are so important; they create opportunities for testing out different areas and can inspire that way.

Hope that helps! :)

 

[Montoya]

- 1 - Progression through reputation

Interesting idea, I never considered that,

If you do enough mercenary missions, do you get to the point where you could be landing massive contracts with huge payoffs and buy yourself your third 980J ?

 

[Heartwood]

Interesting idea

Montoya, you know that this is actually already in the game in form of mission unlocks :D? If i remember correctly, they told us that contracts will get better paid with more standing. So we start off mining on small contracts and work our way up to bigger ones.

 

[Vavrik]

SC was designed from the start to change that, by moving progressioin from the character to the player. You actually do better as you point that turret better. You can use EM warfare becasue you take the initiative to understand and use the proper game mechanics. This should in the long run be vastly more satisfying than having a character earn skills. It's the player who has or does not have the skills for any particular task.

Well said. This encapsulates exactly how I feel about it. Thank you!

Agreed. It's not just providing conflict, but the right kinds of conflict, that really will make or break the game, and we are still a long way from seeing enough of the game delvered to guess whether CIG will hit the mark here.

That is correct, and right now a lot of what we currently see are placeholders for what will ultimately be delivered. One of the things I like about SC is the potential for a player driven economy, and how it can drive emergent gameplay.

That means CIG might ultimately need to step back from parts of the game, like raw materials and resources, trade, and manufacturing, so that they become part of the player experience. It also gives a reason for ambulance, hospital, repair and salvage, exploration and construction operations. That does not mean that every player will have to do these activities at all. Those things mean that some players can help to drive the reason for doing other things like exploration and combat. It can be a connected circle. You have an objective, driven by some need, and other players help you to do it, or try to fight against you. They can fight you by providing goods and services at a lower price, more accessible locations, or by trying to take what's yours. That isn't just piracy and policing, that's also invasion and defence.

Or. CIG can provide all of this themselves, and we can go along for the ride. Sounds like a game that would keep me interested for 3 or 4 months.

 

[Talonsbane]

Why not try playing with your fellow TESTies?

I agree, playing with your fellow TESTies, is always better than playing with yourself. (Phrasing)

 

[Montoya]

Montoya, you know that this is actually already in the game in form of mission unlocks :D?

Im not talking about pro contracts, Im talking about next level.. getting paid 950,000,000 UEC for a single mission!

 

[Vavrik]

I agree, playing with your fellow TESTies, is always better than playing with yourself. (Phrasing)

I agree too. Playing with your TESTies is better than Phreesing.
Edit: I read the last word wrong but screw it, what I said stands as true.

 

[Gr33nh0use]

Im not talking about pro contracts, Im talking about next level.. getting paid 950,000,000 UEC for a single mission!

Sounds like GTA!

 

[Duhb]

I think you misunderstand the basic premise the game is predicated upon. There is skill progression, but these are real world player skills, not character skills. You don't earn a stat that makes you more able to use a scanner. You learn how to use a scanner yourself. That is the entire premise, and it is near revolutionary.

I hope you can understand and sympathize, adults all around the world are fed up playing online against kids with no adult responsibilities, who dominate cyber worlds becasue they play so many hours in a week. This isn't just the sign of poor decision making and bad parenting, its the sad fact that ruins games. Children run the online gaming world, and most of the most successful players are about 13 years old. That necessarily delivers an unsatisfying experience, where the leaders lack maturity and discipline, lack wisdom and gravitate toward instant gratification and cheezy melodrama. Gaming online mostly sucks, because children ruin the games for adults. IMHO.

SC was designed from the start to change that, by moving progressioin from the character to the player. You actually do better as you point that turret better. You can use EM warfare becasue you take the initiative to understand and use the proper game mechanics. This should in the long run be vastly more satisfying than having a character earn skills. It's the player who has or does not have the skills for any particular task.

Agreed. It's not just providing conflict, but the right kinds of conflict, that really will make or break the game, and we are still a long way from seeing enough of the game delvered to guess whether CIG will hit the mark here.

Conflict is a core part of the game. I remember when Wingman was still around there was a hint at the eventual splitting of the UEE. With Earth on one side and Terra on the other. Then they had this idea that the Vandul would possibly invade and even get as deep as some of the core worlds. This was all going to be driven by player actions. I’m hopeful this is still in the works. The thought of a potential civil war in the UEE would give players who side with one or the other. Big disasters were also talked about, like oh arccorp got hit by a meteor because nobody stopped it, so there are massive supply runs, and refugees to move around. I think they have had great ideas for massive game loops that would involve everyone, it’s just to early in the development to get those running.

 

[Heartwood]

Im not talking about pro contracts, Im talking about next level.. getting paid 950,000,000 UEC for a single mission!

I see! You are pushing into master level! Maybe even have a system like Chronicles of Elyria is doing = the game allows for a certain % of players to become highest rank in one lifetime (game life), could work for SC, too with another factor other than lifetime . Like top 10 players with most missions done + quality of work (mission time etc.) will become highest rank with that NPC/faction and are allowed to run the $$$$ mission :)

 

[Montoya]

I see! You are pushing into master level! Maybe even have a system like Chronicles of Elyria is doing = the game allows for a certain % of players to become highest rank in one lifetime (game life), could work for SC, too with another factor other than lifetime . Like top 10 players with most missions done + quality of work (mission time etc.) will become highest rank with that NPC/faction and are allowed to run the $$$$ mission :)

Exactly.

Im thinking that not every player will be able to reach the highest ranks. It will have to be something that the hardcore players strive towards.

 

[glockjs]

I disagree. I usually quit games after I get max level and max gear because there's really not much beyond doing after that.

Moba's are a good example of games you can play just for fluff but keep playing just for the game. Game play matters way more than mindless grind for numbers imo.

 

[Aramsolari]

I'm all about sandbox and player driven games. Give us the tools to create our own content. Let us run the economies, start the wars, and make our own alliances. Don't pigeon hole us into their
''themepark'.

Coming from EVE, I believe that's something CIG can learn from. Those guys (CCP) don't do many things right but they certainly got the sandbox part down.

I don't believe 'character progression' in the form of levels does much for gameplay. Take at World of Warcraft for example. People rush to get to level 80 or whatever it is these days just so they can experience endgame content like raiding. Ultimately I believe that 'end game' content is communal by nature and I'm fine with that. I mean I'll like to experience that with other gamers. MMOs are all about the multiplayer experience after all.

 

[Radegast74]

Interesting idea, I never considered that,

If you do enough mercenary missions, do you get to the point where you could be landing massive contracts with huge payoffs and buy yourself your third 980J ?

CONFIRMED! New Origin 980J , sale to begin immediately after 890J is live, just we make those owners look like plebs!

 

[Printimus]

Stuff with things, soon.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I remember in Freelancer the progression came from two distinct areas - one was moving across the map following the story arc. The other was trading in your ship for the next model up as you went along, as in each new faction controlled area of space the ships they sold were stronger until you found the Corsairs base and grabbed a centurion...

But that wasn't the end of it. There were the lost Prototype Weapons equipped to wrecks drifting in space. I recall using the Diamondbacks and Onyx, but even beyond the search for overpowered kit from wrecks, there were the Nomads.

CONFIRMED! New Origin 980J , sale to begin immediately after 890J is live, just we make those owners look like plebs!

The 908J is two 890's welded together. The 980J is three welded together.

 

[Warhead64]

kids with no adult responsibilities, who dominate cyber worlds becasue they play so many hours in a week.

I am sure they will do fine with 5-20 minute QT travel times.

 

[SoloFlyer]

I don't know, for me personally I don't have much in the way of expectations other than to have a viable alternative to being forced to engage in PvP as the primary goal, that I can do plenty of other things and still feel like I'm getting enjoyment out of the game. I've also done the sandbox thing before and I'm ok with it as long as there is some sort of groundwork in place to build your own story off of. Plus, I don't need to know that I'm doing better than the next player as far as content experienced or stuff accumulated, it's enough to be able to log into the game and definitively say I'm doing better than I was yesterday or a week ago or whatever. For me that can come from seeing my UEC grow or knowing that I've crossed X location off of my list of places to see or getting that one part that will increase my enjoyment and usability of my ship.

 

[Montoya]

CONFIRMED! New Origin 980J , sale to begin immediately after 890J is live, just we make those owners look like plebs!

OOPS!

I was not supposed to talk about he 980J... its a straight upgrade from the 890 in every way, but was supposed to be a secret.