now Tomato had a Podcats with the Guy, hear this out !!!
View: https://youtu.be/o6y-3PXx3Ps?si=4XoA2wS2vtOcnTJE&t=2611
The Theory of " FAT FURY "
- Thread starter Moon_Varcan
- Start date
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
It looks like a Guardian to me.
I never have may appraisal of the Guardian. So quickly comparing against the Sentinel.
Guardian is:
—Smaller target
— more agile
—shockingly worse pilot view
—twice the signature
—nearly identical dps (slightly more when you don’t count the Sentinel’s turret, slightly less when you do)
—identical missile load
—much nicer deck footprint
—less hull
—half the shields
—much less flexibility to mission once the BUKs come out
For me, the terrible +30 signature armor killed this. The ship has way too high a signature for me. The pilot view is about as bad as can be for fighting, and the hull and shields are underpowered. If you’re not taking advantage of the small deck footprint, one wonders why you would fly the Guardian.
I never have may appraisal of the Guardian. So quickly comparing against the Sentinel.
Guardian is:
—Smaller target
— more agile
—shockingly worse pilot view
—twice the signature
—nearly identical dps (slightly more when you don’t count the Sentinel’s turret, slightly less when you do)
—identical missile load
—much nicer deck footprint
—less hull
—half the shields
—much less flexibility to mission once the BUKs come out
For me, the terrible +30 signature armor killed this. The ship has way too high a signature for me. The pilot view is about as bad as can be for fighting, and the hull and shields are underpowered. If you’re not taking advantage of the small deck footprint, one wonders why you would fly the Guardian.
More and more Youtubers - or lets say Star Citizen Video Content Creators - talk about "New Guardian"/"Not The Guardian"/"Real Fat Fury" and so on...
- Im in love with every single ship that resemble one of Star Wars or is close enough to the one of that genere.
Guardian is one of Tie-Fighter Series fighter ship with many pluses and minuses, but You said that Pilot View is shockingly Worse if compare to Sentinel ?...
- OK, You have almost Triggered me - not gonna lie, BUT if You compare Guardian with Any fighter at all remember this - Guardian is approaching its target not like the usual fighter ship do
- it have faster reflexes while going Nose-Down than Nose Up, that's why the clear view is below your belt and MFD is over your head.
And almost every single player that uses Guardian makes the same small but very important mistake ;)
> As for its Maneuverability:
SCM SPEED 210 m/s
SCM BOOST SPEED FORWARD 460 m/s
SCM BOOST SPEED BACKWARD 223 m/s
NAV MAX SPEED 1 100 m/s
PITCH/YAW/ROLL 38 / 38 / 125 deg/s
BOOSTED 45 / 45 / 150 deg/s
As for its Cross Section Signature:
Sides: 6000
Front/Rear: 3333
Roof/Bottom: 9000
When only waiting with Dampener active: IR 6,2k // EM 7,9K
Without Dampener / Scouting / Looking for Trouble: IR 6,2K // EM 5,8K
but Fully battle Ready: gives 16,5K EM Stats, - as for 4.1 Live
That's for QI version, The Basic Guardian have P/Y +2/ +3 Boosted, and Roll +5/ +6 boosted
#DPSCalculator
Star Citizen tools for DPS, damage, power and cooling simulations including an up to date ships and components database
> If i Compare it with Sentinel then we have a...
SCM SPEED 210 m/s
SCM BOOST SPEED FORWARD 458 m/s
SCM BOOST SPEED BACKWARD 220 m/s
NAV MAX SPEED 1 075 m/s
PITCH/YAW/ROLL 40 / 36 / 126 deg/s
BOOSTED 48 / 43 / 151 deg/s
Its Cross Section Signature is the worst possible
Sides: 16444
Front/Rear: 3289
Roof/Bottom: 15751
- so i have no idea why You were saying "Twice The signature" because...
No matter if i made it as stealth as possible with EM and IR its Cross Section sells its twice much than Guardian
When only waiting with EMP to shoot: IR 5,2k // EM 3,1K
Without Dampener / Scouting / Looking for Trouble: IR 5,2K // EM 6,4K
Fully battle Ready: gives 14,6K EM Stats, - 4.1 Live
#DPSCalculator
Star Citizen tools for DPS, damage, power and cooling simulations including an up to date ships and components database
And for Bonus:
HULL HP:
- Guardian = 68 900
- Sentinel = 48 140
Of course there is as many opinions as players wandering around, and we never should compare both of them, the only threat to me is Advanced player inside other Guardian or Inferno/ION as both have got big buffs and now even ION hurts as much as possible, but i've never had a problem taking down Sentinel Solo, BUT we should never compare such ships, these are threat for bigger ships and one can do better with fire power from Sentinel as i can Hold the target and making it unable to escape, we should not even argue in that matter, just join forces and wipe them all togehter !!
But first, help me out with the Theory of the next "Fat Fury" cuz i think of this new, latest Sneak Picture as a roof Part from RSI Apollo series or part of the "new Guardian" Fins
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Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
The Guardian has an EM signature of 27k while the Sentinel has an EM of 6k. The Guardian is unstealthible because of its +30% armor. Nothing is ever going to make it into a stealth craft unless CIG allows us to replace armor. They committed years ago they would, so we’ll have to wait and see. With the Sabre’s armor (-40% EM), or the Prowler’s armor (-60% EM) this would be a completely different bird—insane hard to lock.
The Sentinel has a cross section of 16k and the Guardian is 9k, but that doesn’t much matter if you are not pinging and players don’t ping.
As to sight picture, the missile launcher struts obscure about 35% of the pilot’s view. It is worse than the Lancer. I’m hard pressed to think of a single ship with a worse view for the pilot. You may like the TIE Fighter design, but it is not one any real engineer would ever create, because it leaves the pilot blind two 2/3 of their view.
And of course the Guardian has half the shields of the Sentinel.
Fly what you like, but the <2% difference in maneuverability does not seem to me to justify the missing shield and when the wings come off a Vanguard, it fights on. That’s not what happens with the Guardian.
I could be a fan of the Guardian if it had <6k EM, but again, it has a 27k EM signature because of the +30% sig armor. It will be detected at 4.5X the distance. That’s not a good trade against 2% maneuverability advantage, IMHO.
The exceptions are: 1) if you are in a situation where you need a reduced deck footprint, the Guardian shines. It will for instance fit in the Polaris bay for refueling. The Vanguard will not. 2) You may not care about your signature. There are still a huge number of pilots who just don’t care. To this I would just say that heavy fighters have a hard time dodging missiles and the ability to lock the Guardian out past 20km is a serious problem. The Vanguard can land 64k damage with missiles before the Guardian can even see it.
The Sentinel has a cross section of 16k and the Guardian is 9k, but that doesn’t much matter if you are not pinging and players don’t ping.
As to sight picture, the missile launcher struts obscure about 35% of the pilot’s view. It is worse than the Lancer. I’m hard pressed to think of a single ship with a worse view for the pilot. You may like the TIE Fighter design, but it is not one any real engineer would ever create, because it leaves the pilot blind two 2/3 of their view.
And of course the Guardian has half the shields of the Sentinel.
Fly what you like, but the <2% difference in maneuverability does not seem to me to justify the missing shield and when the wings come off a Vanguard, it fights on. That’s not what happens with the Guardian.
I could be a fan of the Guardian if it had <6k EM, but again, it has a 27k EM signature because of the +30% sig armor. It will be detected at 4.5X the distance. That’s not a good trade against 2% maneuverability advantage, IMHO.
The exceptions are: 1) if you are in a situation where you need a reduced deck footprint, the Guardian shines. It will for instance fit in the Polaris bay for refueling. The Vanguard will not. 2) You may not care about your signature. There are still a huge number of pilots who just don’t care. To this I would just say that heavy fighters have a hard time dodging missiles and the ability to lock the Guardian out past 20km is a serious problem. The Vanguard can land 64k damage with missiles before the Guardian can even see it.
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Where did you get that data when I've showed you the truth 27k em? XD I think you rode the demo version of guardian... Or are you talking about stock components? And how you can make sentinel stealth when it's cross section is twice than guardian?
Sir... I gave you links, did you have a look?.
I'm driving guardian daily, as a support and anti capital, but you know when it fails? After 12 rocket direct hits from firebird, still alive but with 1 or 2 wings, that's it.
The other threat is ofcourse hornets and everything smaller like gladius, comet or arrow, but everything my size is as good as death and my detection is around 9k in Stanton, and less in pyro were you have IR and EM distortion/noice, and around stations like orbituary or Pyam ex hangars are these nebulas that covers your cross section...
Yesterday I had a 1 on 1 with Harbringer, inferno, Scorpius (that one died after 4 seconds lol), Gladiator and even 2 buccaneers once, but they could be just new in game cuz died like flys... Anyway it's going kinda oftopic ...
Sir... I gave you links, did you have a look?.
I'm driving guardian daily, as a support and anti capital, but you know when it fails? After 12 rocket direct hits from firebird, still alive but with 1 or 2 wings, that's it.
The other threat is ofcourse hornets and everything smaller like gladius, comet or arrow, but everything my size is as good as death and my detection is around 9k in Stanton, and less in pyro were you have IR and EM distortion/noice, and around stations like orbituary or Pyam ex hangars are these nebulas that covers your cross section...
Yesterday I had a 1 on 1 with Harbringer, inferno, Scorpius (that one died after 4 seconds lol), Gladiator and even 2 buccaneers once, but they could be just new in game cuz died like flys... Anyway it's going kinda oftopic ...
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
Did they change the armor on the Guardian or is it still +30% EM? Two months ago the EM was 27k and this is still what erkul says.
Cross Section does not matter unless you ping and most players don’t ping. The larger cross section will get hit more often, but the Vanguards fly in vacuum just fine missing their wings, and there are no weapons lost.
Techically, I do not consider the Sentinel a stealth ship. True stealth has an EM below 6k and thus requires an EM absorbing armor. The Sentinel has a 0% EM mitigation, which is not technically stealth. However, 6k EM and IR will allow it to easily get in missile range without detection, even with shields and weapons hot. So it has some stealth applications.
Anything below 12k EM allows you to loose Rattlers from 10km, which are 4X 16k damage. That is not quite enough to kill the Guardian, which does say a lot for its stamina. Most heavy fighters can’t take that kind of beating and fly home.
If you’re flying it and enjoying it, that is the key issue. If it really has the low EM you’re saying, I guess I should give it a go, but I am still put off by the pilot view. I will own that from its release, I have been impressed by the tiny deck footprint. I posted about that right away. It’s ahuge big deal that it will fit inside the Polaris for refueling, and has a bed. This means you can base as many as you like off a Polaris, which really boosts the Polaris ability to find targets. Recon really should be stealthy though, so you can attack with surprise. So if you have sigs under 6k, Imma have another look.
Cross Section does not matter unless you ping and most players don’t ping. The larger cross section will get hit more often, but the Vanguards fly in vacuum just fine missing their wings, and there are no weapons lost.
Techically, I do not consider the Sentinel a stealth ship. True stealth has an EM below 6k and thus requires an EM absorbing armor. The Sentinel has a 0% EM mitigation, which is not technically stealth. However, 6k EM and IR will allow it to easily get in missile range without detection, even with shields and weapons hot. So it has some stealth applications.
Anything below 12k EM allows you to loose Rattlers from 10km, which are 4X 16k damage. That is not quite enough to kill the Guardian, which does say a lot for its stamina. Most heavy fighters can’t take that kind of beating and fly home.
If you’re flying it and enjoying it, that is the key issue. If it really has the low EM you’re saying, I guess I should give it a go, but I am still put off by the pilot view. I will own that from its release, I have been impressed by the tiny deck footprint. I posted about that right away. It’s ahuge big deal that it will fit inside the Polaris for refueling, and has a bed. This means you can base as many as you like off a Polaris, which really boosts the Polaris ability to find targets. Recon really should be stealthy though, so you can attack with surprise. So if you have sigs under 6k, Imma have another look.
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Did they change the armor on the Guardian or is it still +30% EM? Two months ago the EM was 27k and this is still what erkul says.
Yes it do but that +30% is already shown above whenever you switch components or anything it is already counted with +30%, So if you go below 6K EM - it is solid 6K EM, you don't add extra 30% its already there, and yes, you can go even less than 6k with Guardian but its power management is hurt there so i du use a Mix of Competition and Stealth modules :)
Yes it do but that +30% is already shown above whenever you switch components or anything it is already counted with +30%, So if you go below 6K EM - it is solid 6K EM, you don't add extra 30% its already there, and yes, you can go even less than 6k with Guardian but its power management is hurt there so i du use a Mix of Competition and Stealth modules :)
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
Erkul is showing 27k EM stock.
So you’re talking about fitting it for stealth, leaving the shield and 1 reactor off? Lowest I can see is 7.2. That is much better than I thought. The guns are still useable but no shield at all.
The Sentinel numbers vary wildly but go down to 5.5 with shields, guns and EMP on. (You can’t turn the EMP off nor remove it in Erkul for a couple years now.). It is weird since they put 1S1 and 1S2 reactors in it. Not sure how that could happen by mistake but flying just the little reactor the thing is really hard to see. You can imagine charging both Umbras and the EMP, and then shutting down the S2 reactor until you’re using the engines, weapons and shields. Great design if this is what CIG intended. They switched it a few weeks ago. So your second reactor can be military which makes it very robust. One can only guess what numbers if gives with the EMP off, and of course once the BUKs come, there is no signature from the Harby package.
Just as an aside, erkul has never adjusted when shutting down a second or third reactor. That changed a few weeks ago. What it looks like to me is, they’re finally restoring the stealth to the Sentinel, and to the game; or at least trying.
So you’re talking about fitting it for stealth, leaving the shield and 1 reactor off? Lowest I can see is 7.2. That is much better than I thought. The guns are still useable but no shield at all.
The Sentinel numbers vary wildly but go down to 5.5 with shields, guns and EMP on. (You can’t turn the EMP off nor remove it in Erkul for a couple years now.). It is weird since they put 1S1 and 1S2 reactors in it. Not sure how that could happen by mistake but flying just the little reactor the thing is really hard to see. You can imagine charging both Umbras and the EMP, and then shutting down the S2 reactor until you’re using the engines, weapons and shields. Great design if this is what CIG intended. They switched it a few weeks ago. So your second reactor can be military which makes it very robust. One can only guess what numbers if gives with the EMP off, and of course once the BUKs come, there is no signature from the Harby package.
Just as an aside, erkul has never adjusted when shutting down a second or third reactor. That changed a few weeks ago. What it looks like to me is, they’re finally restoring the stealth to the Sentinel, and to the game; or at least trying.
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Hello everyone!
At first I wish you best and thank you for all the support You guys gave me here in Spectrum and Test Squadron forums, and I'm very Thankful for LYNX corp organization for it's all way long support, especially to Rybak and PinkTank that always pushed me forward in the right direction and always stood by my side while I was theory crafting about almost all the ships which we fly today, and the next one that has yet to come out SOON.
Many of these ships were introduced within CitCon2954, and one of them is the topic of this thread...
I'm Aware of the fact that most of You guys don't like the ton of text but it will be short this time !
- as I'm going to make a strict video about this theory, or let's say now "Accurate prediction of Real Fat Fury", as what I'm about to tell you might give you goosebumps as I have them right now while writing this text.
I can't say for sure if the theory is over, but the NEXT Guardian is announced to be STF!
Yes! Straight To Flyable!
And it's name is ...
GUARDIAN MX "Heavy Ordinance" Missile wariant!
- HOW FAT IS THAT?!
Ill try my best with digging all the info today and my Video will be in 2 Languages: for my Polish and English viewers !
Sit tight and fasten your belts! The truth is somewhere out there and we gonna quantum jump in the right direction again!
robertsspaceindustries.com
At first I wish you best and thank you for all the support You guys gave me here in Spectrum and Test Squadron forums, and I'm very Thankful for LYNX corp organization for it's all way long support, especially to Rybak and PinkTank that always pushed me forward in the right direction and always stood by my side while I was theory crafting about almost all the ships which we fly today, and the next one that has yet to come out SOON.
Many of these ships were introduced within CitCon2954, and one of them is the topic of this thread...
I'm Aware of the fact that most of You guys don't like the ton of text but it will be short this time !
- as I'm going to make a strict video about this theory, or let's say now "Accurate prediction of Real Fat Fury", as what I'm about to tell you might give you goosebumps as I have them right now while writing this text.
I can't say for sure if the theory is over, but the NEXT Guardian is announced to be STF!
Yes! Straight To Flyable!
And it's name is ...
GUARDIAN MX "Heavy Ordinance" Missile wariant!
- HOW FAT IS THAT?!
Ill try my best with digging all the info today and my Video will be in 2 Languages: for my Polish and English viewers !
Sit tight and fasten your belts! The truth is somewhere out there and we gonna quantum jump in the right direction again!
Spectrum - v7.40.2
RSI’s Spectrum is our integrated community and player interaction service, including chat, forums, game integration, and Player Organization facilities. Player Organizations (“Org”...
robertsspaceindustries.com
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Well that depends.
If the Guardian MX turns out like the Fury MX we'll get a Heavy fighter with an interior but NO staying power whatsoever.
Only rockets and no guns is only debatable if you got a base to return to asap.
If they give it 4x Repeaters in the wings and something like 2 size 9 torps where the big guns are in the base version I might be game though.
Thats the Question i will have to solve ASAP !!!
At Least im sure i were not crazy and the third Guardian was a thing !!! not just my imagination, or "CIG mistake" within Silhouettes hehe !!!
But i like Your thinking, a Mini Tali is always needed !!!
Come to think of it, CIG would place the Guardian MX as competition to the Vanguard Harbinger, right?
So maybe 2x6 Torps in comparision to the 3x 5 Size Tubes?
OOOOOOR.... They ditch the whole living quarters for a missile bay....
Imagine 2xS5 Guns and a couple of torpedos in that frame!
So maybe 2x6 Torps in comparision to the 3x 5 Size Tubes?
OOOOOOR.... They ditch the whole living quarters for a missile bay....
Imagine 2xS5 Guns and a couple of torpedos in that frame!
Now we are talking!Come to think of it, CIG would place the Guardian MX as competition to the Vanguard Harbinger, right?
So maybe 2x6 Torps in comparision to the 3x 5 Size Tubes?
OOOOOOR.... They ditch the whole living quarters for a missile bay....
Imagine 2xS5 Guns and a couple of torpedos in that frame!
Again thanks for all the support for all of the folks that believed in me saying about next guardian to come!
And my Answer for you Mudhawk won't be as easy for you to accept because:
Look at the silhouette of CC24 guardian
- it's "wings" are fat as f...
What if we place 1x S9 torpedo inside or 2x5? Can it fit?
Let's compare S9 torpedo with basic Guardian then
(Picture attached)
Torp length is ok to be easily fit
So if we use MX fat Wings as silo for torpedos and give it the basic missile rack for 4x S2 each wing and even top and bottom turret (the same we get with F7C-M super hornet MK2 that have 8xS1 between repeaters at the top turret)
Then we get a real deal and ultimate "Heavy Ordinance" Id say!
How about normal guns? If they leave 2xS5 it be OP as f... But it could have at least 2x S3 in case it's out of everything...
What do you think?
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Or maybe they simply turn the Gun/ Missile hardpoints on the head.
2 size 9 torps where the Size5 guns were.
4 Size3 guns where the missile racks were.
Super easy conversion i reckon.
With all power to engines this would be the kink of dumb-firing torpedos...
I like your thinking, byt why Fat wings then... I dunno... Help me finding out please !
Shadow Reaper
Space Marshal
Pretty sure S9 torps are too big for that frame and there are no S6 in game yet. The S7 torps are pretty gnarly, and so far as I know, no ships are carrying them. They’re just used on the Ballista. Would be cool to see them on a Guardian. They hit pretty hard and IIRC, they’re substantially faster than S9.
pretty sure You are Wrong as this frame of even Basic Guardian can fit 2 and a half S9 Torpedo...
Anyway the Theory thread of this Guardian Variant is soon to be closed, MX is Official and not only me are talking about its possibilites to be the biggest yet most anrored with many type of missles even torpedoes one Big ass FAT FURY !
starts in 6:40 i belive
and Picture for all of you if you ever thinks about if it can fit S9 torpedo...
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And at the current prices of missiles/torpedoes in game, it will become the most expensive 'fighter' in the game to use. Let it go mate, it's just another target for light fighters.
Dude, what are you drinking?
Could you link us to a reference confirming that the Guardian can use Size 9 torpedoes?
And how about that half of a torpedo? What is that exactly?
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im clean, thanks for asking...
let me ask You now - how many times do i have to provide the screen ? its here, how many times ?
Reference ?? ive already provided screens and even link to Info Runers latest video about it...