Theory-crafting, the pros, the cons, and why we do it:

Lordgarrett99

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:o7: o7 all,

I've seen many fellow TEST members, including myself as a prominent example, take part in various discussions regarding possible implementations, scenarios, and methods of game mechanics, game activities, and numbers related to those in-game things, this is called Theory-Crafting.

One of these topics, ill use an example, is a simple thread I made asking about Org taxes, thread here: https://testsquadron.com/threads/what-is-yalls-opinions-on-org-taxes.19387/

After some feedback/discussion on the topic, Glorious leader @Montoya responded with the following quote as part of his post:


"Way to early to even try formulate an opinion about a mechanic we have no idea about and no grasp about the inputs and outputs." -Montoya


Now some may think he is "shutting discussion down", or "having too much oversight", and honestly i haven't seen anyone say such things, and if you do, in this case it is blatantly incorrect. What Montoya meant by such a comment is 2 things: 1. this topic should be saved for later, and 2. we need to wait and see until we have such a mechanic in game, it would be against Glorious Leaders nature to shut down productive discussion, as 100% of the discussion in my thread was constructive and productive, maybe jokes here and there but still was a good topic.

where is this going? the simple concept of the human nature regarding curiosity.

Curiosity is what brings us together, what allows us to socialize, and what keeps us entertained and productive. when we Theory-Craft, its part of being productive, it trains the brain to think of new ideas, perspectives and concepts. all of that in turn makes our community intellectually stronger and adventurous.

However...

There is such thing as "Unhealthy Obsession" when it comes to the idea of Theory-Crafting. to differ the healthy and unhealthy Theory-Crafting, ill leave this quote:

1641388378726.png


Some advice I've received from wise people like @Khallx and @CosmicTrader and have applied myself, is this:

-If you are going to Theory-Craft, that's great, but keep in mind times/courses change, and when that change happens, chance your ideas to accommodate them.
-Refrain from being totally set on one idea, have multiple possibilities, and adapt to what comes.
-[Star Citizen] is a long term project, and it is Chris Roberts dream, let the time pass and observe what happens, be aware, but dont decide immediately, and avoid burnout as much as you can.

These points, along with others, keep my mind at peace and still productive, always learning.

And now that ive went on for a bit about this subject, I hope I gave some interesting points and generated some good ideas, and gave some of you Theory-Crafters some ideological pointers from what ive gathered :) .

thank you for reading, The TL:DR is: Theory crafting is best as long as you keep it in moderation and always subject to change your ideas, we are best formulated when we adapt and improve!

:love: - Lordgarrett99
 

Shadow Reaper

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There's nothing wrong about theory crafting ideas years in advance. They get refined by the observations here in the forums and Montoya then has them in mind for the future. That should be enough.

And I will reiterate most strongly, all players should have handles they did not write, and Montoya's should be "Toys".
 

Vavrik

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And I will reiterate most strongly, all players should have handles they did not write, and Montoya's should be "Toys".
... I am glad I wasn't drinking a coffee when I read that, or I might have choked while I was laughing! Thanks @Shadow Reaper

-If you are going to Theory-Craft, that's great, but keep in mind times/courses change, and when that change happens, chance your ideas to accommodate them.
-Refrain from being totally set on one idea, have multiple possibilities, and adapt to what comes.
-[Star Citizen] is a long term project, and it is Chris Roberts dream, let the time pass and observe what happens, be aware, but dont decide immediately, and avoid burnout as much as you can.
But I also want to totally agree with the above. It can be fun to go down rabbit holes and see what comes out.

Also, and this might be something to keep in mind: If you apply that kind of thinking in your real life, you could leverage that in your career. That is how entrepreneurs are born.
 
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vahadar

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Imho, theory crafting keeps some people busy till the game is out.

Most of the time, and OP noted it, things will change, as the development has been going on for years, and is still years to be complete. So nothing is set in stone yet.

Theory crafting is a way to keep our community together, filling our forums with passionate threads ;)
 

Aramsolari

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Theory crafting is fun and all....

But just like anything that's fun, there ought to be moderation.

In my opinion there's been a bit too many theory crafting posts lately and that should be dialed back a bit. I also do believe folks here need to temper their expectations and passions. It really isn't healthy to lose your cool on stuff that may or may not come true. Theory craft to your hearts abandon but respect your fellow TESTies.

Remember the Axiom of MMOs.

"Everything is subject to change"

This applies to everything in Star Citizen...whether it's ship values, gameplay, concepts, everything.

I've been a backer since November 2012 (and spent enough on the game to buy a car) and IMHO, you need to adopt this approach to this project or you'll just drive yourself crazy and burn out.
 
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Mich Angel

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Theory crafting is fun and all....

But just like anything that's fun, there ought to be moderation.

In my opinion there's been a bit too many theory crafting posts lately and that should be dialed back a bit. I also do believe folks here need to temper their expectations and passions. It really isn't healthy to lose your cool stuff that may or may not come true. Theory craft to your hearts abandon but respect your fellow TESTies.

Remember the Axiom of MMOs.

"Everything is subject to change"

This applies to everything in Star Citizen...whether it's ship values, gameplay, concepts, everything.

I've been a backer since November 2012 (and spent enough on the game to buy a car) and IMHO, you need to adopt this approach to this project or you'll just drive yourself crazy and burn out.

:o7: o7 all,

I've seen many fellow TEST members, including myself as a prominent example, take part in various discussions regarding possible implementations, scenarios, and methods of game mechanics, game activities, and numbers related to those in-game things, this is called Theory-Crafting.

One of these topics, ill use an example, is a simple thread I made asking about Org taxes, thread here: https://testsquadron.com/threads/what-is-yalls-opinions-on-org-taxes.19387/

After some feedback/discussion on the topic, Glorious leader @Montoya responded with the following quote as part of his post:


"Way to early to even try formulate an opinion about a mechanic we have no idea about and no grasp about the inputs and outputs." -Montoya


Now some may think he is "shutting discussion down", or "having too much oversight", and honestly i haven't seen anyone say such things, and if you do, in this case it is blatantly incorrect. What Montoya meant by such a comment is 2 things: 1. this topic should be saved for later, and 2. we need to wait and see until we have such a mechanic in game, it would be against Glorious Leaders nature to shut down productive discussion, as 100% of the discussion in my thread was constructive and productive, maybe jokes here and there but still was a good topic.

where is this going? the simple concept of the human nature regarding curiosity.

Curiosity is what brings us together, what allows us to socialize, and what keeps us entertained and productive. when we Theory-Craft, its part of being productive, it trains the brain to think of new ideas, perspectives and concepts. all of that in turn makes our community intellectually stronger and adventurous.

However...

There is such thing as "Unhealthy Obsession" when it comes to the idea of Theory-Crafting. to differ the healthy and unhealthy Theory-Crafting, ill leave this quote:

View attachment 22266

Some advice I've received from wise people like @Khallx and @CosmicTrader and have applied myself, is this:

-If you are going to Theory-Craft, that's great, but keep in mind times/courses change, and when that change happens, chance your ideas to accommodate them.
-Refrain from being totally set on one idea, have multiple possibilities, and adapt to what comes.
-[Star Citizen] is a long term project, and it is Chris Roberts dream, let the time pass and observe what happens, be aware, but dont decide immediately, and avoid burnout as much as you can.

These points, along with others, keep my mind at peace and still productive, always learning.

And now that ive went on for a bit about this subject, I hope I gave some interesting points and generated some good ideas, and gave some of you Theory-Crafters some ideological pointers from what ive gathered :) .

thank you for reading, The TL:DR is: Theory crafting is best as long as you keep it in moderation and always subject to change your ideas, we are best formulated when we adapt and improve!

:love: - Lordgarrett99
Well said ... @Aramsolari and @Lordgarrett99 🍻 :like:

We are not to serious about much at this time as things can change overnight and anything we did, learned or talked about is just dust in the wind... the next day!
That said..! We can when needed be serious and forthcoming in any topic.. if the topic have a valid end goal that can be reach or else it's just words without a point.

Personally I try to stick by this sayings a lot, to avoid get entangled in that thing "Obsession is a negative passion.."

1st is ..
"" Experience comes from mistakes, and greatness comes from experience! "" ( meaning it's okay to fuck up as long as you learn from it )

2nd is
"" Get the info needed to have a opinion or the words you speak don't mean nothing. " ( don't need a explanation )

The 3d is a quote from a very historic wise man.. the kind you shut up and listen when he talk..
- - - - Opinions! - - - -
Owning the right as an individual to speak its view comes from respect, because to express its view is not difficult.
But to express it for the right reasons are few who succeed with.

- - - - - End - - - -

CHEERS! 🍻 🍻 🍻
 

maynard

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[RANT]
maybe I'm just obsessed with precise definitions

in science, it's not a theory until it's testable

is there a game mechanic that supports the idea under discussion?

if so we can theorycraft around it

best armor/armament/squad composition for FPS combat?

we can try various combinations in-game

best Org tax policy?

in-game org administration hasn't been implemented yet

so the best we can do ATM is brainstorm
[/RANT]
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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Theorycraft theorycrafting?! My greatest challenge ever!

[Theorycraft=Theorycrafting]

To my eye, to this discussion, in this moment, there are Four main modes of the Human species - Destroyers, Creators, Maintainers and Consumption Engines which drive the requirement for the other three. For the most part, you have a mix of all four in everyone but sometimes (often times for Consumption Engines) there is an imbalance which leans an individual more in the direction of one of them...

Examples leaning further in one direction, apologies for any overgeneralisation (there is) these are just examples not set in stone rules:

Creators:
Builders, Media makers (games, TV, music etc), Philosophers, Farmers depending on season, Factory Operatives, Women (Perpetuating the species).

Maintainers:
Health workers, Farmers, Office Admin, Janitor/Building Supervisors, Farmers depending on season, Politicians, Sewage Workers, Men (Hunter/Gatherer to support the family).

Destroyers:
Demolition Experts, Soldiers, Trolls, Miners, Crematorium Staff, Voters, Farmers depending on season, Children (the little a-holes).

Consumption Engine:
The fourth, Consumption Engine, is the thing that drives the Destroyers/Creators/Maintainers with their wide pool as Consumer/Witness/Participant. In its base form this is default to everyone from the consumption of food and water to the intake of information. It is worth mentioning more and more people in the wider world find their main trait is leaning in this direction.

So with all four of the above in balance you have... people. The human race is an industrious one and in balance we destroy stuff and use it to create stuff we deem useful to us. We Destroy wilderness to Create woodlands to Maintain to provide trees to Destroy to Create paper and furniture to consume. We Destroy woodlands to Create fields to Maintain to Create wheat plants to Destroy to Create bread to consume...

...But then here we have a computer game being built...

Nothing is specifically destroyed in the creation of a game. No tree is specifically cut down to create the code (trees might be consumed if the Dev likes to print stuff out or use notebooks but it doesn't need to specifically be, like you would have to to make furniture out of it). No Field is created specifically for the creation of the game, the devs would have consumed the produce of the fields whether they were working on the game or a 128bit Excel replacement. Nothing is actually destroyed. Energy is used, yes, but Energy is famous for not being able to be destroyed, only converted...

So, taking all of the above in to account, what is Theorycraft?

An imbalance toward the Creator trait with minimal Destroyer, Maintainer or even Consumption Engine trait with one important distinction: Where a Dev has the outlet of being able to actually create, the Theorycrafter can only state their thoughts. They have no skill to make it a reality. It is energy coverted with no outlet to exist in...

...before the web it was pretty much limited to "Flights of fantasy" and Fan Fiction, however now we have the "Ideas Economy" fast becoming a new layer which sits on top of the tertiary service industries and thoughts, theorycrafts and ideas have inheent value but no lightening rod to attract them to strike into value.

So you end up with bubos like me on the internet talking the above bollocks. Those with the Creator Streak but no resource to turn it into something. The Carpenter without wood, the Ironmonger with no metal, the writer with no ink. That is theorycraft - The produce of a Creator with no way to create.

[/Theorycraft]

That's todays theory. Ask me tomorrow and who knows it may well be different but today the above is what it feels like ;)
 

Lordgarrett99

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good morning my fellow TESTies, I love where this thread is going and i agree with all the wonderful takes on this subject and the very kind comments as well :)

i wanted to follow up on a few things ive heard on this thread and out of this thread:

1. THEORYCRAFTING SHOULD NEVER ALIENATE YOUR FELLOW TEST FAMILY! using your ideas as a platform to amplify a place to make it about you for you and object to every other idea/suggestion with any form of unkind gesture or explicit arguing is not cool, and goes against TEST Rule #1: "don't be an asshole".
im not a mod or a staff, but i feel i can say that out of good measure for the care and love of my fellow TEST family.

2. in the words of @maynard , "Its not a theory until its testable". These words stuck out to me, and he is 100% correct, when we come out with an idea or 2, if it doesn't make sense at this time, just wait and see, but keep in mind all possibilities, share with those who wish to listen, and keep a good grasp on the fact that change happens and you must be ready for it. besides, at a decent way through alpha, and multiple people saying "its gonna be a big year for star citizen", you best believe your ass that we are in for a wild 2022, so hold on to your horses and just ride it out!

3. avoid burnout, its not that simple, but try to avoid overthinking on it, its still a game in development after all!

love all of yall, and i hope this thread has been a good read + a good help :)

-Lordgarrett99
 

Mich Angel

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I think I share my take on "Theory crafting" as when is it functional or waste of time...
This is a old note I wrote down, it have come in handy some time.

Quote My Self:
- - - - - Theory crafting, when facts are missing. - - - - -
One can theorycraft indefinitely when one doesn't have all the facts relating to a subject
and as such don't succeed with anything more than wasting time.

And if I were to ask or to tell anyone to draw a line on a wall for an indefinite time would they?
Logic state they tell me to get lost or go F**K myself.


So why spend a lot of time trying to come to a conclusion that can't be reached no matter
how much one thinks or talks about it, when the facts needed for a conclusion are missing.

Isn’t it better to spend the time doing something more productive that one have more use
for, like research if there are facts to come to a conclusion.

Logic would state it will increase and give a larger chance for a success and more
productive time spent resolving the subject if one has all the facts.


- - - - - END - - - - - // Mich 2010 //

CHEERS! 🍻 🍻 🍻
 
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