Theorycrafting the Carrack

[Shadow Reaper]

Has anyone else considered the landing bay on the Carrack seems too small for a fun variety of ships? Even though it has a bay rather than an attachment point like the Connie, this may make no difference. I would love it if the designers were to make it able to fit 16M beam ships like the Gladius, Avenger, 300 series and even a sideways Reliant. I don't suppose anyone here has the ear of the CIG designers?

Right now it looks to me we'll be lucky to get an Aurora in there.

 

[Adiran]

I have mentioned it before that I believe like every other ship out there when they get down to remaking it it ends up larger than it originally was suppose to be. I think this will be the case for the carrack. The only ship that can fit in it is a merlin with the wings folded as it is right now in the concept. Unless they plan on making its snub the same size (witch how the hell would it be any good for anything if it is) its a safe bet to say the bay will grow along with the carrack.

I used to be very active in the carrack forums on RSI about possible ideas for redesign but haven't had much time to get on as of late. There are a lot of good and bad ideas on the official forums tho.

As im paroozing the carrack discussion section it seems Stevetank and Riddick as well as a few other testies are still active on there.

 

[CosmicTrader]

Sorry, haven't heard anything.

 

[Xian-Luc Picard]

I wouldn't be surprised if it got bigger... we should find out soon(TM).

Did you call Montoya's theorycraft line? He has *all* of the answers!

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I would like to see it slightly bigger, but not much. The center section could be wider, but not the rest of the ship; so a 64M beam could fit say a 20M wide, 35M long hangar bay at least 10M high. That will not fit even medium sized ships and not more than a couple fighters, but it makes an exploration vessel more a centerpiece.

I'd also like to see 5 S5's, the additional atop the sterncastley-looking portion such that it can fire forward and back. All the turrets ought to be S5 manned and slaveable, IMHO. The ship is easily big enough for this already and there is too much target area for just 4 turrets. 4 S2X6 pylons, two rear firing, is about right for something this size but not a ship of the line.

I would not want it much bigger. The outer dimensions could all stay the same. They gave a large portion of the ship to engines and reactor and it ought to have nice power curves even if easy to spot.

 

[Thugari]

I would consider a small fleet of dragonfly's in the bay

 

[Gucci]

I hope they make it bigger but thats just because I own one and I'm being honest when I say that deep down, most people associate bigger with "better". (Thats what she said!) There, already done for you!

But honestly, growing in size wont mean love, and leaving a ship the same size or even shrinking it wont really mean indifference.....

There can be a larger hanger with no real growth in volume for one thing.

Lets be realistic, the internals need space but no one here(CIG included) is working with real equipment/reality....they could just come out of a meeting tomorrow and say "you know what, the engine room can be smaller now due to.....the flux capacitor....yea thats it!" and boom, less room needed and things stay the same in size etc.

That being said, I HOPE they grow it!

 

[Maxgerber5250]

yeah all multi crew ships in this game are like a pickle jar full of foreskins. just give them a little rub and they turn into a suitcase.

 

[Blind Owl]

I just want to see the bloody scout for it. And know what capabilities it has. The scout that is.

I believe it should be able to jump, so you can explore small jump points. Just a short range, jump through, take a look, come back sorta scout

 

[Gucci]

I just want to see the bloody scout for it. And know what capabilities it has. The scout that is.

I believe it should be able to jump, so you can explore small jump points. Just a short range, jump through, take a look, come back sorta scout

Exactly, doesnt need to be a "do everything" scout, just giving the large Carrack a way to explore small JPs!

 

[Phantomoftruth]

I'd be happy to see the "scout" ship be a drone, all sensor, fuel, J-Drive, and just enough maneuver to turn around.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Yes, but why should they design an entire scout for the Carrack? Wouldn't most owners prefer to select the ship they want as a tender from amongst a handful that will fit?

I would consider a small fleet of dragonfly's in the bay

The thing to remember is that in any conflict, the key limiting factor to force that can be applied is the number of players. Putting players in the tiniest toy ships with a single S1 gun could turn out to be the worst option.

 

[Blind Owl]

Yes, but why should they design an entire scout for the Carrack? Wouldn't most owners prefer to select the ship they want as a tender from amongst a handful that will fit?

It's not a matter of 'why should they'. They are. A scout comes with the Carrack. It's just a matter of what that Scout will be capable of.

 

[Thugari]

Yes, but why should they design an entire scout for the Carrack? Wouldn't most owners prefer to select the ship they want as a tender from amongst a handful that will fit?


The thing to remember is that in any conflict, the key limiting factor to force that can be applied is the number of players. Putting players in the tiniest toy ships with a single S1 gun could turn out to be the worst option.

my response on that was more of and affect, you have to admit a mess of dragon fly's popping out of a carrack like a bunch of angry hornets out of a nest looks intimidating.

the only thing missing is that "the ride of the Valkyrie's" cant be heard in space

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I think that would be cool, but I also think you would have a terrible time convincing a mess of players to stand around in a Carrack waiting to be attacked. If there are things to do in the Dragonflies, then by all means use the Carrack as a base and explore those ancient ruins by day, sleep over by night. In my experience however, what works is what pleases the players. Any plan really needs to take account of how they want to spend their time.

I can recall people learning this the hard way over at Star Wars Combine, when the Empire expected players to respond to being made Captain of their enormous Imperial Destroyers by flying them. That would last a month maybe until the player noted they were effectively cut off from playing, because they were babysitting someone else's ship. That is not a long term solution.

One hopes a Carrack is not easy to spot when sitting on the surface of a planet. If it does a scan and finds an interesting world, then really the only fighters that need to remain vigilant are whomever is flying cover in say a Ghost Hornet. It will not be easy to convince players to fly cover like that, since with no target they will feel like they are not playing during their playtime.

 

[marcsand2]

We have discord and we have multiple systems. If a ready-room is created per system, then it would be possible to setup quick response forces.
Fighters in space check in on their current systems ready-room. If anybody gets in trouble and needs assistance, then he or she just goes to the systems ready-room and requests assistance.
This kind of cover is not so effective as dedicated fighter cover, the ships have to holdout until fighters arrive, but fighters can do their own thing and when needed they still can react.

One thing would be very practical with this setup: multiple channel discord. An alternative would be: use a second device (phone, tablet) to check in on the ready-room. If anybody needs assistance, then the fighters can be allerted and can switch their main discord device to the ready-room.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

You sound very organized! I guess a lot of you came over from Eve together?

Are you using VOIP as well? In a hairy fur-ball I would generally prefer to talk to teammates rather than type notes.

I think though this misses the harder part of the issue. It is the long spans of time with nothing happening that can win or lose a battle. It is specifically because you can't get ten players to hang out on a Polaris or Carrack that these ships will make compelling boarding targets. One supposes most of the time, they will have one or two players aboard since the rest will be busy. . .well. . .playing! So we will all be relying upon NPC's for defense to some degree. And from what I've seen, real squad tactics will be very effective against NPC's that probably have but one weapon and at best can perform a pre-scripted defense. (Something like "shoot the bad guys" with no movement.) I think it will probably be much easier to take ships than defend them, given we can board them at all.

Lots of ships will hide by staying in hangar when they can. Carracks will be most vulnerable when in unexplored space while they're exploring. If a player with an EMP can knock that ship out and then have a boarding craft jump into the system very close, those boarding might find only NPC's to fight. That's what one would hope to find.

Consequently, I think what we'll see is a great deal of bluffing. People parking Hornets alongside Carrack's just to make it appear the bigger ship has an escort. That in turn makes it possible to call the bluff and take the unattended escorts.

The more one thinks about it, the more convoluted it becomes. . .which is what should make it so much fun!

 

[Blind Owl]

the only thing missing is that "the ride of the Valkyrie's" cant be heard in space

Yet. We will persevere.

One hopes a Carrack is not easy to spot when sitting on the surface of a planet. If it does a scan and finds an interesting world, then really the only fighters that need to remain vigilant are whomever is flying cover in say a Ghost Hornet. It will not be easy to convince players to fly cover like that, since with no target they will feel like they are not playing during their playtime.

Fuck it. Everyone to the surface, have fun exploring. I'd rather take the risk and have fun than doom some players to hours of boredom doing overwatch. Its a game, not RL. And it's my damn Carrack. I'll risk the shit out of it, haha.

This kind of cover is not so effective as dedicated fighter cover, the ships have to holdout until fighters arrive, but fighters can do their own thing and when needed they still can react.

I like this approach.

 

[NKato]

The Carrack is fine as-is. Don't count on it being able to deploy a fleet of snubfighters.

It's job is exploration, not a carrier.

 

[Mog_No_1]

I think @Shadow Reaper is on the money with the whole dragonfly thing, whether it be a Carrack or Caterpillar full of them. I'd get bored shitless sitting in a ships hold for hours waiting for action, then finially pop out with my mates against a reasonable sized ship. All of that to get my ass handed to me on a gold platter because the equiped weapons on those things would just be an irritation not a real threat to any sizable ship. I'd have thought it would just be a quick way of getting manpower over to the other ship for boarding action. Personally I think people are overselling how effective Dragonflies will actually be. 3 Dragonflies would still be outgunned by 1 Super hornet but you've lost 2 additional pilots in the initual lineup for the Flies.

As for communication in game, will certainly be key for sure, good idea of @marcsand2 with the tablet or whatever to keep track of things. +1 to you sir! :rolleyes: But we need to see what CIG will role out in game. Realistically if SC is done right we should have easy communication in game with other org members, be able to throw up a beacon so other org members know where things are at and can quickly jump there. Seen some youtube video about beacons somewhere, they plan on enabling you to mark ore deposits, salvage wrecks, possitions, targets, all sorts of things for yourself and other people. I'm hoping Discord will be totally unnessesary due to whatever systems SC put into the game to communicate your needs.

As for the Carracks pocket ship @Blind Owl, doubt it will have Jump drives, dont think it will be any different to what the Connies have. Will just give you another set of boots in the air or a basic scout. All the Business will be with the Carrack. God I want that ship, job for next week when my failed Carrack buy moneys are back in my account.