CrashMan054
Commander
I love how you try to turn my statement around back to me. I'm not upset about any of this, I'm attempting to explain to you the downsides of your strategy. You seem to be the one getting defensive here.
This is why Killboards matter
- Thread starter Overlord
- Start date
Shar Treuse
Captain
The cancer in EVE wasn't the killboards, it was the corps whose leaders were shortsighted enough to not comprehend the value of what you, and people like you, were doing.
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Killboards don't matter. What matters is, plain and simple, skill at doing what you want to do in the game. If that is dogfighting, so be it. Practice will benefit you, even if they change the entire game so it barely resembles AC when it's released. But this goes far beyond what killboards measure, because they are a simplistic and flawed measure of competency.
What this has to do with controlling jump entry points is moot right now because we don't know what the game is going to be like in the end. Maybe it will be possible to use jump points to control a system, this could be a good thing if CIG can get it to work while still preventing ganking. After all, ganking happens in EVE because it works; it is a sound tactic for being an asshole, because even totally incompetent pilots can do it. If the tendency to abuse it means that we can't use jump points tactically in Star Citizen, because CIG wants to prevent abuse, so be it...there will be other tactics and people will find them.
Or you could find superior tactics that show everyone how pathetic the mechanics abusers are by defeating them repeatedly. I hope this is going to be possible, because it will prove that CR/CIG really know what they are doing and that it is possible to pwn at a game without adopting the "win at any cost, even if it means abusing game mechanics" strategy. Personally, I had a character in EVE that almost never killed an "enemy" pilot (player), unless of course they were stupid enough to try to take him out, but managed to amass a massive fortune and a huge fleet of ships by actually...playing the game as it was intended.
This is exactly what "using the same mechanics other corps are using" is going to cause. Follow the crowd or perish! Do as I do or you will lose! You're hurting your own argument.
Fair enough. But I have to laugh sometimes when people bring their moral codes to the PU. Say for example you are chasing a Banu merchant ship with a ton of valuable goods through a system and suddenly they log off and save themselves a mountain of heartache. Don't you think that is a pretty dickbag thing to do? I do. But EVE permits this and people do it all the time, at least when I played. But sure, maybe CIG won't allow this kind of behavior - I hope they don't allow it! But what would you do with a cargohold full of valuable goods in that situation - lose it because you wanted to be a stand up guy? lol. Sorry but people are always talking morality crap until they are faced with losing it all. Seen it so many times before and highly doubt the Star Citizen PU will be any different.
And as for these accusations that I would do anything to win, that is simply false and rather 'dickbagish' to say because there are lots of things I wouldn't do like suicide ganking, spying or afk-ing in system. So I urge people to read more carefully before trying to put words in my mouth. And I still believe that promoting Killboards and those who are active on it is good for the corp despite its flaws. The same way I believe that promoting mining or trade is good, or even single player Squadron 42 even though I don't believe in single player modes. To each their own. But I am not here to dictate or call people dickbags and put words in their mouths which I am seeing here.
CrashMan054
Commander
This is getting out of hand.
The fact of the matter remains that doing what you suggest will make others hate us and maybe even get us banned if CIG does what they've said they'll do to prevent this crap.
The fact of the matter remains that doing what you suggest will make others hate us and maybe even get us banned if CIG does what they've said they'll do to prevent this crap.
Shar Treuse
Captain
I'm sure CIG will be looking at every way EVE has been abused and finding some way to penalize such tactics, even the Logoffski's. Perhaps by making ships involved in an altercation persist after the player logs off, so that his ship is even more a target for being unmanned. Personally if I had my druthers, I'd also make sure the captain got a black mark in the rep system, making players less inclined to crew for him and npcs cost a lot more to hire.
Hopefully CIG will release some sort of manifesto clearly declaring what sorts of behaviours will be penalized and how, rendering the whole argument moot. Still, practicing in AC is going to do people good in the end, however Star Citizen turns out, even for crappy, decrepit, old pilots like me.
Hopefully CIG will release some sort of manifesto clearly declaring what sorts of behaviours will be penalized and how, rendering the whole argument moot. Still, practicing in AC is going to do people good in the end, however Star Citizen turns out, even for crappy, decrepit, old pilots like me.
I agree, it is getting out of hand because you are talking about getting banned in a game that doesn't exist and without knowing which mechanics are and are not permitted. And again you revert to hyperbole in the form of 'this crap' as if to make a point of some kind.
Yes, that would be nice. Personally I would like to see a game that doesn't allow questionable tactics - but if those questionable tactics are allowed in game then I will use them because I am going to assume they are part of the game. If CIG states that certain tactics are not permitted then of course I will not use said tactics. But if they are being used then I don't give a damn about people's idea of how SC should be played; and I certainly am not going to lose ships over someone else's concept of fair play.
I think the most fair way to handle this would be to make the AI take over if someone DC's. This way the logoffskis would not even be allowed to exist, but the people with bad net connections won't be overly penalized either.
CrashMan054
Commander
True, I don't know what the final game mechanics will be like. I'm going off of what I've heard from the forums and CIG. However, you aren't really justifying your point, you're pointing out the same thing over and over again.
I couldn't make my point any more clearer. Once again, I believe Killboards are beneficial and the corp would do well to recognize the efforts of those actively involved. And I believe we should utilized whatever mechanics are available to us if it is allowed by CIG. I can't make it any more simpler than that. Moreover, I don't see killing a ship that is going down in a free for all as a 'shitty, asshole or dickbag' thing to do. In fact it is common sense and something that should be strategically encouraged; nor am I going to stay logged on if my ship filled with yummy goods is under attack (should the mechanic exist) simply to satisfy someone else's concept of fair play. And I WILL log on with others in unison if CIG allows the mechanic. If what I am saying is such a bone of contention then I'm sorry. But that doesn't mean I think less of you or anyone for that matter. Personally I hope CIG creates mechanics and rules to stop this behavior unlike CCP! But they HAVE to enforce it or the rules are meaningless. Until such time however, I have no problem using mechanics or strategy that some would consider unsavory.
AntiSqueaker
Space Marshal
I think autopiloting to the nearest dock/station and then logging the ship off would be the best solution.
Sounds interesting but AI will be immensely inferior to human pilots so you could pretty well write off the ship and cargo.
To be fair to both you and whomever you are fighting, if you DC your ship should stay in the instance until all enemies/friendlies are no longer present. If your ship somehow survives the fight but you are not able to get back on the net, then it should log you out following the same log-out rules that would apply if you were still connected.
I see your point, and this probably makes the most sense. But if I am in the middle of a battle (not running) and I DC then I would prefer if the AI would go on attacking, as best it could until I am able to log back on.
It would suck if I am at the end of a battle that I am winning, but I lose my kill/loot, because I my net crapped for a few min and my prey was able to limp far enough away to log-out themselves.
This would be a much more complicated solution, but if it could be figured out it would be very cool.
edit: typo
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It will be interesting to see how CIG deals with this. It is a big problem and one that can be exploited if not done right. If I remember correctly, if you were targeted in EVE you could not log off until 5 minutes without being targeted. That way you have the option of logging off in space but not using it as an exploit if being attacked. But the biggest issue that I had with EVE are afk-ers: they cloak up in a system so you never know whether they are actually there or not, which for the most part shuts down the system for mining and what not. Now I would definitely classify that as dickbag exploit and I am really happy there will be no cloaking, although a 10 minute cloak would solve that problem.
At the end of the day, I do believe the leader boards matter. Good pilots work together. If someone managed to make their way to the top of the leader boards by team means, well, I suppose that's a great achievement on the teamwork level. What we need to be careful of is this leader board ranking. We do not want to askew our judgement or attitude in game over our skill in flight. We are a big organization, 2nd biggest so far. Maintaining a scratch-less reputation will be impossible, but, in the course and event where there is conflict, its best that you always be the better person so to speak. Setting our tolerance level and sportsmanship above the rest. This is how our rep gets out and our Org grows. Nobody is holding a gun to someone's head and saying don't use your own strategy, but at the end of the day, keep in mind how you communicate with others before, during, and after an encounter with a non Testie as you are representing more than yourself now. So if it takes a team for you to get to the top of the leader boards, go you. Anyone up there has the right to be proud of their achievement and hopefully it inspires others to try their best as well or invent new methods.
my opinion on KDR and leaderboards:
i personaly think KDR have no real meaning behind them. i played and still play BF3 and sure my KDR in a match might be over 1.5 or even higher but it doesn't say much about the way i played that match. i could have been on a good zerg spot in metro or i could have been the guy that really helped to keep a flag. one is beneficial for the team the other is just trying to end up on the first place in the leader board. by al means i don't say that playing AC and giving it your best is bad but i think its stupid to try to get others to do the same. my brother always tried and is still trying to get me to play WOW in a high pressure kind of way. i need to be the best and shit like that. this kind of pressure ruined pvp in WOW for me and i despise it (but loving BF3???o_O).... but i still loved to pve like raids and such (and i was realy good at it :D). just with an guild that was more casual :D... i play (and i think a lot of other TESTies will agree with me) because its fun.
i will play AC and give it my best but not to be the best cause that just takes the fun out for me.
EDIT: also someone can help the team without ever killing anybody like giving good intel or jaming the enemy or taking the role of the medik or engiee
i personaly think KDR have no real meaning behind them. i played and still play BF3 and sure my KDR in a match might be over 1.5 or even higher but it doesn't say much about the way i played that match. i could have been on a good zerg spot in metro or i could have been the guy that really helped to keep a flag. one is beneficial for the team the other is just trying to end up on the first place in the leader board. by al means i don't say that playing AC and giving it your best is bad but i think its stupid to try to get others to do the same. my brother always tried and is still trying to get me to play WOW in a high pressure kind of way. i need to be the best and shit like that. this kind of pressure ruined pvp in WOW for me and i despise it (but loving BF3???o_O).... but i still loved to pve like raids and such (and i was realy good at it :D). just with an guild that was more casual :D... i play (and i think a lot of other TESTies will agree with me) because its fun.
i will play AC and give it my best but not to be the best cause that just takes the fun out for me.
EDIT: also someone can help the team without ever killing anybody like giving good intel or jaming the enemy or taking the role of the medik or engiee
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