Tired of Pad Ramming? or Stream Sniping?

NaffNaffBobFace

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Thanks for bringing us this report.

There is a thin line between competitive game "PvP" and harassment, but it is a very distinct one:

I have seen many players defending pad-camping, spawn-camping, ganking and other surpressive actions as PvP when it is anything but - for PvP you need to have the other player to be verses against. Claiming suppressing other players from being able to PvP against you is PvP isn't Player Vs Player - it's PbP: Players Being Penises, because without the other player you may as well not be there in the first place.

For destroying ships on the pads in particular I wonder what would happen if they set up a pocket server for people doing this, which they are ported to without their knowledge and ships just continuously and automatically spawn to keep them busy. I'd like to know how long they do it for before they twig on that there is no one on the other end and if the appeal to continue remains or they get bored and go away?
 
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Bambooza

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Thanks for bringing us this report.

There is a thin line between competitive game "PvP" and harassment, but it is a very distinct one:

I have seen many players defending pad-camping, spawn-camping, ganking and other surpressive actions as PvP when it is anything but - for PvP you need to have the other player to be verses against. Claiming suppressing other players from being able to PvP against you is PvP isn't Player Vs Player - it's PbP: Players Being Penises, because without the other player you may as well not be there in the first place.

For destroying ships on the pads in particular I wonder what would happen if they set up a pocket server for people doing this, which they are ported to without their knowledge and ships just continuously and automatically spawn to keep them busy. I'd like to know how long they do it for before they twig on that there is no one on the other end and if the appeal to continue remains or they get bored and go away?

This is what the prison system hopes to accomplish as it really is a micro server for those whose actions were hostile towards others. The balance comes into play on the backside with the ability to avoid prison if you have the resources and support to stay away from bounty hunters and police. It's not going to stop the spawn penis from doing it once but because they typically don't put in the time and energy to have backup plans they will be sent off to prison for a long time. Harden Criminals are not going to spawn camp ships because it has no cash reward which they will need to continue to stay one step ahead of the law. This is not going to say you will not still call them assholes because they robbed you at gunpoint and you might not have lived.
 

Grimbli

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Was really hoping this post would've had a few solutions with me getting bored pad ramming and stream sniping people...


Disappointed. 1/5 stars.
 

Montoya

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I say that all ships within a armistice zone get a special bouncy shield boost from nanoparticles being emitted through tachyon transmitters, resulting in all ships being invulnerable.

Ram away, no damage... end of pad ramming.
 

Tei

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[...] for PvP you need to have the other player to be verses against [...]
While I get where you are coming from, I do not agree with that statement.
For PvP you need any player who is in PvP zone. It does not matter if he is willing or unwilling to engage in PvP.
Once you enter PvP, you are fair game. And since vast majority of areas in game are PvP, therefore expect to be attacked by others in those places (almost anywhere).

That said, it does not mean that I do approve PO missile camping or pad ramming. On contrary I think this is very bad bahaviour. Just wanted to say that if you play in game that is PvP zone, expect to being engaged at any time.


As for 'stream sniping'.... this is funny one, I saw some top streamers (other games) who every time when they lost game / got killed, they blamed that it must be stream sniping.... ;)
 

GriffinGamingRPG

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Was really hoping this post would've had a few solutions with me getting bored pad ramming and stream sniping people...

Grimbli,
Don't hesitate to jump into Discord and tell TESTIES you're being attacked. Usually there are some who will be happy to jump in and escort or destroy the idiot(s) attacking you.

GriffinGamingRPG

Disappointed. 1/5 stars.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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While I get where you are coming from, I do not agree with that statement.
For PvP you need any player who is in PvP zone. It does not matter if he is willing or unwilling to engage in PvP.
Once you enter PvP, you are fair game. And since vast majority of areas in game are PvP, therefore expect to be attacked by others in those places (almost anywhere).

That said, it does not mean that I do approve PO missile camping or pad ramming. On contrary I think this is very bad behavior. Just wanted to say that if you play in game that is PvP zone, expect to being engaged at any time.
Thank you for the interesting response - I would like to discuss this, however I am aware my response may come across as confrontational, please note before I say anything I do not intend to be confrontational 🙂

I appreciate you do not condone the use of dick moves such as pad camping, spawn camping, ganking etc, however do you accept that "suppression" of another players ability to PvP as I put it my previous post is a valid PvP tactic or do you think that is PbP?

For example, when GrimHex didn't have an armistice zone players regularly camped the pads and blew up the ships which spawned before the owners could even exit the airlock. Players would become trapped on the station unable to exit and play the game. Every time I played I made sure to swing by GH and fire a couple of shots at any assholes Pad-Campers in the area to clear them out. They never, ever, hung around to PvP - they always ran. Always. Suppression is not PvP. At this point they may as well be trolling NPC's with mirrored user names, because with suppression there is no game play for either side.

So, suppression: valid Player Vs Player (PvP) or is it Players Being Pricks (PbP)?
 
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Cugino83

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I say that all ships within a armistice zone get a special bouncy shield boost from nanoparticles being emitted through tachyon transmitters, resulting in all ships being invulnerable.

Ram away, no damage... end of pad ramming.
May I suggest a simpler one, since armistice zone will go away anyway?
S7 distortion weapon on station turret that actually work: they will disable even the bigger ship, the grifer will be sent to prison server and his ship impound and require a 20% of his value to being retrived.

Since this "players" usually use bigger ship for that I guss they finance will be gone in a really short time, so no more ramming...

Onother simple one? No more pad, only hangar: no ship to be rammmed anymore.... problem solved.

While I get where you are coming from, I do not agree with that statement.
For PvP you need any player who is in PvP zone. It does not matter if he is willing or unwilling to engage in PvP.
Once you enter PvP, you are fair game. And since vast majority of areas in game are PvP, therefore expect to be attacked by others in those places (almost anywhere).

That said, it does not mean that I do approve PO missile camping or pad ramming. On contrary I think this is very bad bahaviour. Just wanted to say that if you play in game that is PvP zone, expect to being engaged at any time.


As for 'stream sniping'.... this is funny one, I saw some top streamers (other games) who every time when they lost game / got killed, they blamed that it must be stream sniping.... ;)
I agree on that but as you say the other play have to be able too fight back in some sort, beeing it to just flee (ot attempt to) rather then actually pew pew you back.
Shooting on ship on pad is not a PVP action... robbing is.

For stream sniping this will always be an issue: now is just a sniping, tomorrow there will be robbery of that streamers try to smuggle a drug cargo or other valuable item from one system to another, you can't avoid it as unplesant as it is.
 

Tei

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Thank you for the interesting response - I would like to discuss this, however I am aware my response may come across as confrontational, please note before I say anything I do not intend to be confrontational 🙂
Of course, my response is not hostile as well, the way I see it we just exchange our views on that matter.

I appreciate you do not condone the use of dick moves such as pad camping, spawn camping, ganking etc, however do you accept that "suppression" of another players ability to PvP as I put it my previous post is a valid PvP tactic or do you think that is PbP?

For example, when GrimHex didn't have an armistice zone players regularly camped the pads and blew up the ships which spawned before the owners could even exit the airlock. Players would become trapped on the station unable to exit and play the game. Every time I played I made sure to swing by GH and fire a couple of shots at any assholes in the area to clear them out. They never, ever, hung around to PvP - they always ran. Always. Suppression is not PvP. At this point they may as well be trolling NPC's with mirrored user names, because with suppression there is no game play for either side.

So, suppression: valid Player Vs Player (PvP) or is it Players Being Pricks (PbP)?
You say pad and spawn camping is a dick move.
Then you say that you did exactly that at Grim Hex, calling your targets assholes (while not really knowing any of them and why they were there).
So help me understand something here, was it you in the past and you changed your view or you would still do that if there was no armistice zone in Grim Hex?

I am sure you realize that you do not need to be even a pirate to be at Grim Hex, not even having crime stat.
And in past you could get crime stat for anything trivial, like landing without permission, accidentally shooting your team member while on PvE mission or even when some asshole rammed you on PO pad. Now it's a bit better but you still can get unintended crime stat from time to time.

To answer your question, if by supression you mean pad ramming and camping Grim Hex, then yes I agree, it is dickhead move, no difference to PO or other pad camping.

As for PvP, be prepared to fight back or run away any time you are outside armistice zone.
Star Citizen is PvP game whether we like it or not, and it will remain this way, regardless how many people will cry.
CIG said it many times and they even said it in post linked in OP:

[...] We're not here to protect players from aggressors, pirates, and PVPers. A big part of Star Citizen is about that dichotomy. That epic clash that occurs when opposing forces meet and rally others to their cause. [...]
 

Bambooza

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Lots of passion and great ideas.

I just want to make sure everyone knows that armistice zones are a simple stop-gap put in place until the crime system was further along. That in time there will be nothing preventing you from pulling a gun or using your ship to blow up another anywhere. Even inside the spaceport of Hurston if I am fast enough I should be able to poke you full of hole steal your gear and make a clean break. That there will be no forced safe place just degrees of NPC police response based upon the location and the status of the comsat's.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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You say pad and spawn camping is a dick move.
Then you say that you did exactly that at Grim Hex, calling your targets assholes (while not really knowing any of them and why they were there).
So help me understand something here, was it you in the past and you changed your view or you would still do that if there was no armistice zone in Grim Hex?
I swung by GH to chase away Campers, not to shoot ships on the pad - I can see how that reads, I have edited my original post to make it read as intended. 🙂

To answer your question, if by supression you mean pad ramming and camping Grim Hex, then yes I agree, it is dickhead move, no difference to PO or other pad camping.

As for PvP, be prepared to fight back or run away any time you are outside armistice zone.
Star Citizen is PvP game whether we like it or not, and it will remain this way, regardless how many people will cry.
CIG said it many times and they even said it in post linked in OP:
Grim Hex used to be a PvP area but it was plagued with Suppression techniques, Pad camping being only one with others such as camping the airlocks, lifts and other things. I am not saying there should not be PvP in PvP areas, however camping a spawn site and killing anyone/destroying anything that spawns there is not PvP it's suppression and when a player logs on and can't even begin to play, what is the point of logging on?

Suppressions practical upshot is some players are not able to go play, even if they were PvPers they were not able to vP. I would say that even in a PvP area suppression of things like spawn points is a PbP move, but I am not typically a PvPer. I would be interested to know what someone who's game objective is to PvP thinks of strategies to take over and control, for example, a spawn area to the detriment of other players. (Taking and holding resource sites etc I obviously am all for as that's where legitimate conflict gameplay will come from as Jumptown became.)

I have spoken to many players who compare supression of others ability to play as a valid technique, sometimes comparing it to wartime maneuvers to destroy an airfields aircraft before they can take off. What is your take on suppression in a PvP area?
 
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Tei

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I swung by GH to chase away Campers, not to shoot ships on the pad - I can see how that reads, I have edited my original post to make it read as intended.
I see, yes, I did read your original post as if you did kill players on spawn, thanks for clarification on that.

[...]

What is your take on suppression in a PvP area?
I never did it and I doubt I would ever do. I would compare it to low blow in sport. No glory of winning something by preventing other to play.
 

Grimbli

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Thanks, but I was trying to make a joke about me being the pad rammer and wanting ideas to spice it up and not get bored doing it. 😄
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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I see, yes, I did read your original post as if you did kill players on spawn, thanks for clarification on that.



I never did it and I doubt I would ever do. I would compare it to low blow in sport. No glory of winning something by preventing other to play.
Thanks for your angle on it, that sports analogy is a good one :)
 

atpbx

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Pad ramming, sure ban them.

Stream sniping though?

Kill certain streamers not actively flagged on their stream for PvP just like you would any other player and they squeal about “stream sniping” or “griefing” you know, because they are such a high level internet celebrity and everything and they should just be allowed to toddle around effort free all day grifting and filling their Ebegging bars up.

You never see Myre bitching about stream sniping, or Vertigo, or Ryan, or Darklaw, amazing.
 
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