Vanguard Warden Distortion Loadout

Cugino83

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Hey lads, what is the secret to mouse and keyboard fighting? If I recall, there's a key combo you can hit that helps with you r mouse looking? Gaaaa, I'm trying to get back into this but Jesus, controlling the ship in combat is a pain in the ass. The reticle moves, but the ship takes a while to follow it, which makes it freaking annoying trying to center on an enemy and shoot.

Any quick tips? I thought there was a shift + something that help[s with the auto-gimble and aiming, or something of the like, but I can't for the life of me remember, lol. Too much beer I reckon.
Well first thing first: if you arre using the wanguard with a fixed S5 weapon you don't have gimble assist... since you don't have gimble weapons.
If you are using an S4 gimble weapon... just drop it for a S5...

With that out of the way if I understand what you are looking for the keybind is "Z" for free look that allow you to look around freely with the mouse...
For gimble weapon I think is "R"... but after two years using a HOTS I totally forgot some keyboard commands... anyway you can quicly check them in-game by ESC->Option-> Keybinds there is the compleat keybord standard mapping.

Another way to find the command (and eventually re-bind him) is to hold "F" and "RMB": this will open the interaction wheel with ALL the action you can do... just don't use it while in combat becouse is not that quick too navigate.

Finally, get an HOTAS or a dual Joystic setup that way is way way more easy to pilot a ship.
 
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wmk

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Hey lads, what is the secret to mouse and keyboard fighting? If I recall, there's a key combo you can hit that helps with you r mouse looking? Gaaaa, I'm trying to get back into this but Jesus, controlling the ship in combat is a pain in the ass. The reticle moves, but the ship takes a while to follow it, which makes it freaking annoying trying to center on an enemy and shoot.

Any quick tips? I thought there was a shift + something that help[s with the auto-gimble and aiming, or something of the like, but I can't for the life of me remember, lol. Too much beer I reckon.
You have probably hit "\" by mistake, Owl : ) That's the "mouse relative mode" toggle.

ZLi6SVp.jpg

@Blind Owl
 
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wmk

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All right, NPC AI testing phase completed -- ATVS works great.
Four size 2 distortion repeaters are shredding shields literally in seconds, no matter if it's Gladius, Avenger, Eclipse or Connie /NPC ships with default components/.

Please don't mind operator's errors; I've never been using distortion weapons before, so I didn't know how effective they are -- that's why you can see me still firing them even when the target's shield is already down ; ) I realized that after few dogfights and stopped wasting guns' health.


Link to the loadout --
 
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Blind Owl

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Well first thing first: if you arre using the wanguard with a fixed S5 weapon you don't have gimble assist... since you don't have gimble weapons.
If you are using an S4 gimble weapon... just drop it for a S5...

With that out of the way if I understand what you are looking for the keybind is "Z" for free look that allow you to look around freely with the mouse...
For gimble weapon I think is "R"... but after two years using a HOTS I totally forgot some keyboard commands... anyway you can quicly check them in-game by ESC->Option-> Keybinds there is the compleat keybord standard mapping.

Another way to find the command (and eventually re-bind him) is to hold "F" and "RMB": this will open the interaction wheel with ALL the action you can do... just don't use it while in combat becouse is not that quick too navigate.

Finally, get an HOTAS or a dual Joystic setup that way is way way more easy to pilot a ship.
I'll get back to my HOSAS soon enough. Every time I get back into the game they've changed the keybinds and I have to re-setup everything. It gets frustrating as fuck after a while. Add to that the fact that combat with sticks was so broken for so long that it was useless even trying to use them. If they're good now, I'll set them up again.

As for the gimble thing: I thought there was an aim assist that was added some time ago that gave even fixed weapons a slight gimbal? And I *think* the thing I'm trying to figure out is called look ahead. I dunno. I just know that when I move the mouse, a reticle moves all over the screen, and the ship slowly follows it.
I don't know why the game can't be setup to play when you launch, rather than having to change 42 things right after launch, lol.

Thanks for the info eh!

You have probably hit "\" by mistake, Owl : ) That's the "mouse relative mode" toggle.

View attachment 20532

@Blind Owl
This may be it! I shall TEST! Thank you.
 
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Cugino83

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@wmk nice video testing... from your evidence I'm even more convinced that 4 ATVS are an overkill against the presented target: you are able to shread the target shields in seconds but then, for larger target (like the Conny), you lack the firepower to take them down quickly.
Form your video the TTK of the Conny feels way more longer then mine with 4 laser repeater + M7A... to be clear, is a feeling I don't have actual chrono times...

@Blind Owl
my dear fellow TESTie if you go to the "advanced control customization" there is an option to save the keybing maps. The config file will be saved into

...\LIVE\USER\Controls\Mappings

so be aware to save then before deleting the USER folder and return them to that location afterward.
With that file you can restore the entire configuration (joysticks, keyboard, mouse etc...) in one click... eventually you'll have to configure only the new command.
Be aware this save file DO NOT include game setting, like the ranged zero for ship weapons, "look ahead" camera angles etc... but it will save you a lot of time at every patch.
 

wmk

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@wmk nice video testing... from your evidence I'm even more convinced that 4 ATVS are an overkill against the presented target: you are able to shread the target shields in seconds but then, for larger target (like the Conny), you lack the firepower to take them down quickly.
Form your video the TTK of the Conny feels way more longer then mine with 4 laser repeater + M7A... to be clear, is a feeling I don't have actual chrono times...
Yep; as you can see I had to use missiles /a single missile, to be precise/ to finish two of them, as it was taking too long to shot them down; but missiles cost a lot...
Taking shields down is my highest priority. Once they're down, I don't mind spending some time on finishing the target; or taking its engines down.

I tried M7A on Warden some time ago and I didn't like it, mainly due to slow rate of fire.
 
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Cugino83

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Yep; as you can see I had to use missiles /a single missile, to be precise/ to finish two of them, as it was taking too long to shot them down; but missiles cost a lot...
Taking shields down is my highest priority. Once they're down, I don't mind spending some time on finishing the target; or taking its engines down.

I tried M7A on Warden some time ago and I didn't like it, mainly due to slow rate of fire.
True, the fact is, in my opinion, that right now distortion weapons are only damaging shileds (even if in a very effective way) and not ship's components, while a "normal" weapon can do damage to both shileds and hulls... from the video it seams to me that a full distortion repeater build is a bit to unbalance toward taking down shiled and let a bit too much on the ground for actually dealing damage.
This will deefenetly change once the components damage will be a thing, in that case a full 4x distoriotn repeater will be able to fry the entire ship's elettronics in seconds... probably.

Agree on the M7A: it's defenetlly a slow firing weapon (and I consider too slow even the S% laser repeater...) but I feel it compensate it with the really long range and the hight damage: if you engage at distance by the time a ship like a Conny came into the S2 range it alrady lost a full shiled or is close to...
Of course you need to be accurate enoought fto ba able to land those few shot in target, compared to a laser repeater is a far less forgivin weapon in term on missing shots.
 
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Blind Owl

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my dear fellow TESTie if you go to the "advanced control customization" there is an option to save the keybing maps. The config file will be saved into
Oh I have been saving my keybinds since . . .2.0 maybe? Lol. They have changed everything enough in the times between when I play that my old keybinds are completely useless. Its my own fault for going 1-2 years between playing, haha.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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I usually use a S5 ballistic cannon for the hull penetration. Does the Attrition-5 work better though?
once shields are down, energy weapons melt armour like a knife through butter. Ballistics bypass the shields a bit but have to deal with the armour.

The distortions strip the shields fast and the energy weapon can work its magic unimpeded.
 
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Blind Owl

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It's always going to be hard to connect S2 weapons velocities with S5. It's key to note the S2 Gattling connects with the S5 Laser Canon velocity and pips.

Go 4 X S2 Gattlings on the nose with the chin mount S5 S7A laser. Same pips! One pip to find them all and one pip to kill them. Every platform lament, and die against the mighty Vanguard.

Two stage trigger--first stage unleashes the mighty laser cannon for sniping. Squeeze a little more and the second stage unleashes 4 S2 Gattlings at 2.2 km range.

Kill things and take their treasure.
This setup is pretty awesome. I tried it out in pirate swarm and was devastating pretty much everything. And I am a rookie at the moment.
All right, NPC AI testing phase completed -- ATVS works great.
Four size 2 distortion repeaters are shredding shields literally in seconds, no matter if it's Gladius, Avenger, Eclipse or Connie /NPC ships with default components/.

Please don't mind operator's errors; I've never been using distortion weapons before, so I didn't know how effective they are -- that's why you can see me still firing them even when the target's shield is already down ; ) I realized that after few dogfights and stopped wasting guns' health.


Link to the loadout --
Yeah, I road thrown vanduul swarm with the stock sentinel loadout and didn't die once. Those distortion cannons and the attrition 4 are pretty freaking awesome together.
once shields are down, energy weapons melt armour like a knife through butter. Ballistics bypass the shields a bit but have to deal with the armour.

The distortions strip the shields fast and the energy weapon can work its magic unimpeded.
Wait wut?! I thought ballistics did hull damage and energy did shield? I'm so out of the loop, lol. I do know that with distortion cannons though, I would certainly want my chin gun to have a bit more of a fire rate then the M7. Although the M7 pairs beautifully with the BVRS ballistic gats.
 

Blind Owl

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Now, question of the decade (or two):
What has happened to chafe and flare? I try to cycle with "J" but instead I launch "noise"? And "H" launches "decoy"? What are these things? We used to have to match the chafe/flare to the missile type, no?
And how in gods name to I lock missiles? I only managed to get one freaking lock. The middle mouse button (or my keybind on my joystick) do nothing. Is there some fancy new targeting feature I'm missing?
 

Cugino83

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Now, question of the decade (or two):
What has happened to chafe and flare? I try to cycle with "J" but instead I launch "noise"? And "H" launches "decoy"? What are these things? We used to have to match the chafe/flare to the missile type, no?
And how in gods name to I lock missiles? I only managed to get one freaking lock. The middle mouse button (or my keybind on my joystick) do nothing. Is there some fancy new targeting feature I'm missing?
Well... things have changed a bit...

Now "decoy" contermesure (the one with the higter ammo count... sorry I can't remember if is this one ore the other...) are besically an all-in-one chaff and flares and work on EVERY type of missile be they IR, EM or CR.

"Noise" contermesure (the one with few ammo count) istead create a bubble of interference that mess up with ANY loking signal, so both missilles AND ship traking systems, that cross this bubble making you, for all the senseor that "see" you trought this bubble, more "stealth" and, as a conseguence, probbabily brake the lock on your ship, from, again, both missile and ships radar.

Not only but with the new contermesure system "noise" will affect all the missile flying to you, BUT it will depepend on missiles distance, the amount of CM you fire AND your ship signature.
Basically for breaking a lock on a missile you need to fire as much CM to overcome your ship signal and force the missile to re-lock on the new, stronger signal.

Since you are in process to re-map all of you command, take notice that right now you have t3 additional keybind:
- increase fired contermesure
- deccrese fired contermessure
- panic button

Ok the first two are self explanatoory, they set the number of CM that will be fired ina single selvo (default is 1), the second one is a bit triky since it fire 25% of the remaining CM... is basiccally the button of the "oh shit, oh shit they are firing missile on me what can I do!!!" situation...
 
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Mastersan

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Great TESTing.

There are some important things to consider. It's probably enough to have 1 distortion cannon to drop the shields faster, and leave other damaging weapons to do damage.

Also, NPC ships are much weaker when compared to a top loadout ship operated by a player. For example, those Eclipses in the beginning of your video, if equipped with A-grade stealth components and allowed to cool down (which a player would likely do) would likely break away and disappear form your radar somewhere at 2.0 - 2.2 km, and then take you down while being invisible, Argos IX torpedoes lock from 1km and others from 2.6km. You will have trouble finding the Eclipses, as they would break distance and be stealthy, but they will see you, as your signatures are quite high.

Moreover, the strength of Vanguard is its durability, so that it can take punishment and dish out more. When dealing with the same type of targets, as in your TEST video, a Super Hornet with 6 gimbaled Ballistic Gatlings does a much faster job at taking targets down, because it keeps the fire on the target thanks to gimbals, and goes through shields thanks to ballistics. The same Super Hornet with 6 gimbaled Attrition repeaters still does a much better job at taking down the same targets than the loadout demonstrated in the video.

In addition, IMHO, a fixed loadout helps to fight with larger and tougher ships, which you can outmaneuver, rather than smaller agile ones. the same Super Hornet, as above, can do Very High Risk Target missions fighting Valkyries with 6 energy or ballistic gimbaled guns, but it tends to do this better with 4 higher size fixed guns, which can be used effectively, since the targets (Valkyries) are much less nimble than the Super Hornet, so it's not an issue to keep the guns on the target.

I keep talking about a Super Hornet, as I've TESTed it here, just didn't post a video. As far as I'm aware, a Vanguard has less gun firepower than the Super Hornet, but it's much more durable. 🍻
 
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wmk

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Great TESTing.

There are some important things to consider. It's probably enough to have 1 distortion cannon to drop the shields faster, and leave other damaging weapons to do damage.

Also, NPC ships are much weaker when compared to a top loadout ship operated by a player. For example, those Eclipses in the beginning of your video, if equipped with A-grade stealth components and allowed to cool down (which a player would likely do) would likely break away and disappear form your radar somewhere at 2.0 - 2.2 km, and then take you down while being invisible, Argos IX torpedoes lock from 1km and others from 2.6km. You will have trouble finding the Eclipses, as they would break distance and be stealthy, but they will see you, as your signatures are quite high /.../
Totally agree; a skilled Eclipse pilot wouldn't let me lock on that ship. And I wouldn't probably even try to shot any Eclipse in a 1 on 1 situation, unless I knew it has no torpedoes left.

The reason I'm experimenting with a custom Warden loadout is that I was never impressed nor satisfied with the default armament. So far I love those distortion repeaters; they allows me to take the shields down very quickly and then either finish the enemy ship, or attempt to stop it, by taking engines out.

And it looks cool ; )

ScreenShot3979.jpg
 

Blind Owl

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"Death Of A Space Man" the PU's Permadeath mechanic once it comes along. If dying is as inconvenient as it's supposed to be, as in a penalty for putting yourself in a position to be killed, even if the players I'm up against are asshats, I'm not out to ruin peoples game accounts and progress by killing them.
Right! I remember the original post on that, so many years ago. Thank you.
Well... things have changed a bit...

Now "decoy" contermesure (the one with the higter ammo count... sorry I can't remember if is this one ore the other...) are besically an all-in-one chaff and flares and work on EVERY type of missile be they IR, EM or CR.

"Noise" contermesure (the one with few ammo count) istead create a bubble of interference that mess up with ANY loking signal, so both missilles AND ship traking systems, that cross this bubble making you, for all the senseor that "see" you trought this bubble, more "stealth" and, as a conseguence, probbabily brake the lock on your ship, from, again, both missile and ships radar.

Not only but with the new contermesure system "noise" will affect all the missile flying to you, BUT it will depepend on missiles distance, the amount of CM you fire AND your ship signature.
Basically for breaking a lock on a missile you need to fire as much CM to overcome your ship signal and force the missile to re-lock on the new, stronger signal.

Since you are in process to re-map all of you command, take notice that right now you have t3 additional keybind:
- increase fired contermesure
- deccrese fired contermessure
- panic button

Ok the first two are self explanatoory, they set the number of CM that will be fired ina single selvo (default is 1), the second one is a bit triky since it fire 25% of the remaining CM... is basiccally the button of the "oh shit, oh shit they are firing missile on me what can I do!!!" situation...
Excellent! Thanks for the update. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Great TESTing.

There are some important things to consider. It's probably enough to have 1 distortion cannon to drop the shields faster, and leave other damaging weapons to do damage.

Also, NPC ships are much weaker when compared to a top loadout ship operated by a player. For example, those Eclipses in the beginning of your video, if equipped with A-grade stealth components and allowed to cool down (which a player would likely do) would likely break away and disappear form your radar somewhere at 2.0 - 2.2 km, and then take you down while being invisible, Argos IX torpedoes lock from 1km and others from 2.6km. You will have trouble finding the Eclipses, as they would break distance and be stealthy, but they will see you, as your signatures are quite high.

Moreover, the strength of Vanguard is its durability, so that it can take punishment and dish out more. When dealing with the same type of targets, as in your TEST video, a Super Hornet with 6 gimbaled Ballistic Gatlings does a much faster job at taking targets down, because it keeps the fire on the target thanks to gimbals, and goes through shields thanks to ballistics. The same Super Hornet with 6 gimbaled Attrition repeaters still does a much better job at taking down the same targets than the loadout demonstrated in the video.

In addition, IMHO, a fixed loadout helps to fight with larger and tougher ships, which you can outmaneuver, rather than smaller agile ones. the same Super Hornet, as above, can do Very High Risk Target missions fighting Valkyries with 6 energy or ballistic gimbaled guns, but it tends to do this better with 4 higher size fixed guns, which can be used effectively, since the targets (Valkyries) are much less nimble than the Super Hornet, so it's not an issue to keep the guns on the target.

I keep talking about a Super Hornet, as I've TESTed it here, just didn't post a video. As far as I'm aware, a Vanguard has less gun firepower than the Super Hornet, but it's much more durable. 🍻
So in the case of the Sentinel, or any Vanguard, with those 4x fixed size 2 on the nose, it there any recommendation to overcome the innate awesomeness of gimbaled? I'm currently rocking the BVRS ballistic repeaters. I have the m7 for matching pips, but I'm willing to experiment.
 
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Cugino83

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...
So in the case of the Sentinel, or any Vanguard, with those 4x fixed size 2 on the nose, it there any recommendation to overcome the innate awesomeness of gimbaled? I'm currently rocking the BVRS ballistic repeaters. I have the m7 for matching pips, but I'm willing to experiment.
Hmm not rally... the new aim system for fixed weapons kinda mitigate the difference since right now you are not required to be pixel-precise to use a fixed weapon, but the autogimble will always in advance when it comes to target traking and bullet on target.
The difference I'll expect will be "external" to the weapons themself: like ECM system that prevent weapons form locking into ships signals or the stealth gameplay itself... plus of course damage contol (if you computer system is fried hasta la vista autogimble...).

One thing, rith now, will be more efficient with fixed weapons: hight speed combat.
With the new flight and combat model autogimble is really efficient only while flying under SCM speed, while you pass that "limit" autotraking will degradate preatty quicly and became useless... fixed weapons of course doesn't have this problem and keep they accuracy unalterded at every speed you fly.
 
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Blind Owl

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Hmm not rally... the new aim system for fixed weapons kinda mitigate the difference since right now you are not required to be pixel-precise to use a fixed weapon, but the autogimble will always in advance when it comes to target traking and bullet on target.
The difference I'll expect will be "external" to the weapons themself: like ECM system that prevent weapons form locking into ships signals or the stealth gameplay itself... plus of course damage contol (if you computer system is fried hasta la vista autogimble...).

One thing, rith now, will be more efficient with fixed weapons: hight speed combat.
With the new flight and combat model autogimble is really efficient only while flying under SCM speed, while you pass that "limit" autotraking will degradate preatty quicly and became useless... fixed weapons of course doesn't have this problem and keep they accuracy unalterded at every speed you fly.
Awesome. Thank you!!
 

Shadow Reaper

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To the original question, though I keep hearing the ATSV melts shields and then the ship comes down, the times to kill seem very long to me. Way past ten seconds minimum.

I think ballistics have got to be killing much faster.
 
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