[Video] - Youtuber says Star Citizen backers are manipulated!

Heartwood

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This org is so big, you can easily do a survey and as soon as you hit 1000 votes, it is officially representative. 10.000 would be even more impressive. That is basic statistics and would actually be viable to be used as argument.

For example:
--> Do you feel attached to a) the ships, b) the project, c) both or d) beer (0 - 2 answeres allowed, no answer = not feeling attached)?
--> Do you want montoya to grow a full grown beard colored in black and yellow?
 

Crymsan

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Hmm well CIG has a sales team and they use sales tactics which is definitely manipulation, that is what sales do (spend your money here not there). There have been some sensible suggestions about getting rid of the silliness that is LTI from Forum commentators. If you buy a ship in game with in game money you have to then buy insurance which if its reasonable (no claims cheap lots of claims not) will add up.

Any ship bought with real money before release should have LTI. Sadly to encourage cash sales the dependency on making LTI worth having is daft.

People are employed to get in as much cash as they can and so yes they use manipulation. The question is why should CIG be different to any other product?
 

Rear_Intruder

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He seems very 'attached' to his you-tube channel. Maybe he has lost some objectivity in pursuit of it, or maybe his business model is to make money by being negative.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U__AAseVblM
---Is it about the money ?, his income dropped by 41%.

I do not mind people being negative, I just wish they would get their facts correct. When we give negative reviews about a product, we are impacting on peoples jobs and livelihoods. I bought something on amazon recently, I was the first to post a review, my review was 1 star and was justified by facts. That will harm sales of that product, It may even cause that product to cease production and may cost a few Chinese people their jobs.

He needs a new script writer to assist him with his video titles.
"Souls: A Great & Terrible Franchise"
"Battlefield: A Great & Terrible Franchise"
"Total War: A Great & Terrible Franchise"
"Assassin's Creed - A Great & Terrible Franchise"
"Far Cry: A Great & Terrible Franchise"
 

Arcturos

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Fact of the matter remains - YouTubers that know nothing of this game and haven't even followed it's development close jump on the HateStarCitizen bandwagon to gain more views and a few more subscribers and line their pockets at the expense of others.

I would think that if you are going to make a video on a subject you should at least research it a bit before posting said video. I know, what a shocker. He kept saying "I don't know this" and "I don't know that" - well, why don't you familiarize yourself with the subject JUST a TINY bit and then make a video.

I'm all for constructive feedback and calling CIG on some of the bullshit they pull off but just blindly firing shots at the thing because it's an easy target is stupid.

I also feel attached to Montoyas hat. He keeps wearing it, I keep seeing it. I'm getting manipulated by it. I want one.
 

Crymsan

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Anyone have some JPEGs they can spare?
CIG viciously held me down to inject me with one of their JPEGs last year giving me an instant addiction.
I fear that if I don't get more JPEGs soon I'll go into withdrawal.

Those bastards!
Deroth you cannot be following the game your JPEGS are in development hell and will take years to come out.
 

Xist

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I mostly completely disagree with the ignoramus in the video you highlighted @Montoya.

One place where he is (probably accidentally) on track is with people who have put too much money into this game. Meaning, this is a video game. People should only be putting in money they really don't care about.

In general it seems that everyone who has done a good job of spending within their limits has a reasonable outlook on the game.

The problem is that there are people, and surprisingly many people, who have spent way too much. They've put so much money into the game that they start to obsess over it and think that they're owed this and that, and when they don't get it exactly the way they want it they start freaking out.

Nevermind that there are like 1m people who have put money in, and it's literally impossible to get 1m people to agree on anything. These people who did a terrible job managing their own money think they should control the project, and to hell with all the other people who failed to manage their money as well.

These are the people who are super upset. They are the ones who bitch and moan and whine and cry.

So yes, there is a problem with Star Citizen -- it's all the people who can't manage their own money, and rather than take responsibility for that, they blame Star Citizen. Then ignorant people who don't know any better, like the YouTuber that you highlighted, make stupid videos about the lies those backers tell themselves (and anyone else who will listen).
 

Bambooza

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I saw that recently with a guy who wants a refund because he thinks they game will have too much pvp.
To much? Damn now I am triggered... I want a refunded because I am afraid its not going to have enough PVP, blood splatter needs to be everywhere much like a god of war game.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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Thank you, Glorious Leader!

Nice analysis.

Usually after one of these videos I would watch the original analyse it, picking out the parts where due-diligence was skipped and the video maker has damaged the credibility of their own channel... but this time I don't have to.

Yeah, it was a long video but there was a lot to analyse.

Just to pick up on one of DT's points highlighted in Montoyas video:

"I do not like the practices of promises and dreams..."

I think the original video maker was a backer at one point. They may have been engaged in the begining, they may have watched every ATV and read every ship brochure and backed more and more, always accepting what was true at the time it was said in videos and literature, getting hyped and always ticking that Terms Of Service box - but always ignoring the part in those TOS where it says, to paraphrase, "Things are subject to change."

Some backers may find that what they dreamed of when something was planned melts away when that dream reaches the light of day, as things may have had to change in development to make it work.

But many more backers were not asleep when they pledged and accepted the terms presented to them: Everything is subject to change. The Cutlass owners had a fighting freighter that in reality just didn't work. Now they have a bigger, better ship, a dream that while bitter to loose was replaced by an even better reality.

I feel sorry for the guy, as I fear he may be talking from his own personal experience - and prejudice - rather than from any point of fact or authority.
 
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Frad in'Ryth

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You know while driving my daughter home from preschool I had a horrifying realization. Every time someone comes out with a shit post article or vlog, people say I'm going to go buy the new concept ship just to show them.
What if that's CIG's plan all along!
What if all these trolls are on the take from CIG!
Are we all manipulated and attached sheeple?

I was going to assuage these fears with a Legatus pack but I noticed it didn't come with a divorce attorney which would be required if I spent 27k on anything short of a house, car, or sailboat my wife can live on after she gets it in the divorce.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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You know while driving my daughter home from preschool I had a horrifying realization. Every time someone comes out with a shit post article or vlog, people say I'm going to go buy the new concept ship just to show them.
What if that's CIG's plan all along!
What if all these trolls are on the take from CIG!
Are we all manipulated and attached sheeple?

I was going to assuage these fears with a Legatus pack but I noticed it didn't come with a divorce attorney which would be required if I spent 27k on anything short of a house, car, or sailboat my wife can live on after she gets it in the divorce.
*Rubs credit card on computer screen*

Erm...

*Pauses*

You may have a point.

*Resumes rubbing credit card on computer screen*
 

Bruttle

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Downward Thrust said:
I do not like the practice of promises and dreams. I like the practice of reality, which is a day 1 quality video game
If that's the case, why is the video about Star Citizen and not No Man's Sky? How about the latest installment of Mass Effect? How about almost every single AAA release in the last 5 years? How did those "day 1 quality video games" work out? How about other games that realize their promises and dreams, but cut the content out at the last minute. Then they place that content behind a second paywall.

The current industry is a F2P, P2W, microtransaction filled, paywall blocked, half finished, early access mess. The exceptions to this are very few (Farcry 5 gives me hope for the future) and far between. When you take the large developer mindset and combine it with the chronic impatience of the gaming majority, it's what you get. It was only ever going to end this way. The gaming community creates the shape of the gaming industry and this is what was molded with our purchases. Hooray for us.

Star Citizen isn't part of that world though. It is a project of passion that is free from the usual constraints. That's the way crowdfunding works. It provides a method in which an artist can create their art. Yes. This includes copious amounts of promises and dreams. However, that's why we all backed this in the first place. We all dream of what this game could be, right along side Chris Roberts. Not only do we dream of a better game, but we are willing to fund it.

That's what it comes down to. We are funding this grand experiment. Nobody coerced us into funding it. Nobody scammed us into it. We all knew exactly what we were spending money on. We are spending money on the chance. We are embracing the opportunity to try for something amazing. We are gladly attempting to prove that the gaming industry isn't just trash and manipulation.

So when someone comes out with a video claiming that Star Citizen is a scam, I get confused. Where they see manipulation and coersion, I see the most transparent development process that I have ever seen. Where they see mishandled money, I wonder how they are able to have that many employees on that LITTLE amount of money. Where they see perpetually failed deadlines, I find myself astounded by the fully fleshed out and constantly updated road map.

So maybe Star Citizen works out, and maybe it fails miserably. I know either is still a real possibility. It could end up the biggest flop in the history of gaming. I knew that was a possibility from day one. However, with that risk in mind, I am fully happy with the funding I have given to date. I would do it all over again. I gladly spent and will continue to spend based on the chance that this works out.

I took Star Citizen as both an opportunity and a critisizm. It is an opportunity to help a dream game in it's creation. However, it is also a flaming "fuck you" to the typical development cycle as it has become. It is the chance to show developers that the current issues don't lay with the gamer's reluctance to spend, but rather that they don't want to spend on the garbage we are handed. There is a better way and this is our chance to prove it.
 

BUTUZ

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There is a better way and this is our chance to prove it.
Christ on a bike that's exactly right! That's exactly why I backed - I backed a paradigm shift in the gaming industry, not just a game. And boy think it's gonna work out!
 

Bambooza

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In time... Of course your great great grand kids might be the lucky ones who get a fully functional version of Star Citizen they can play when not piloting their own rocket ships.
 
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ColdDog

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Montoya, I think this game is just different than what this youtuber is use to. Like people, who said the world was flat and then someone said, wait it is round... the horizon changes the further you get out to sea. SC started as a go fund me - crowd supported project. The first of its kind in the AAA game world - SC committed to showing us, the world how the sausage was made early on 2012-2013 and I do not think it computes with this person. He seems to be more of a "world is flat" type person... that's ok. Like if we were to watch him edit his youtube video step by step... I am sure we'd be calling him a dumb ass for all the little mistakes he made during his production... but his final product came out ok. Reality is the world is not flat... we actually live in the matrix... and aliens come from another dimension. Just kidding... it is his perception, reality... we have the same problem when we discuss politics here in the test family. Skepticism and being cynical is a human trait and is normal at a (subjective) healthy level.
 
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Bruttle

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In time... Of course your great great grand kids might be the lucky ones who get a fully functional version of Star Citizen they can play when not piloting their own rocket ships.
I know it seems that way, but looking at the current roadmap, we might see the game landing in 2020. That would be about right. Six years for a video game of this scope is pretty quick.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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If that's the case, why is the video about Star Citizen and not No Man's Sky? How about the latest installment of Mass Effect? How about almost every single AAA release in the last 5 years? How did those "day 1 quality video games" work out?
Oh when I think back on some of the disasters of Day One releases from those who should have known better.

Remember 2013's Sim City - Online only, the game on launch day couldn't connect to servers. It was literally unplayable on launch day... not just launch day, it took nearly a week to fix.

Sonic Boom, Fallout: New Vagas, Skyrim, Diablo III another game crippled by servers on release, Batman: Arkham Knight - so riddled with issues it was pulled from sale until it could be fixed and it is reported to still have issues to this day.

Some of these games, once fixed, went on to become blockbusters and one or two became blockbusters still with issues... none of them are minor IPs and one or two of them did very real and lasting damage to their franchise, Sim City in particular allowing Skyline a foothold in the City Simulator market.

It could be argued that with the breath and diversity in modern open-world video games, where a charicter can do the same action but in a thousand combinations of clothes, weapons and skins it is actually impossible for all elements of a game to be Quality Checked now.

Maybe we have the way? Maybe SC allowing Alpha access uncovers bugs and issues that would not be identified by a traditional QC department structure?
 
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