visual weapons chart

[Shadow Reaper]

I like that the weapons are arranged by size and DPS, with the absolute minimum stats one would have an interest in. This seems to support my continuing interest that if one can teach oneself to manage with the slower ammo weapons, there are huge advantages to them, especially if one can learn to fight from distance.

To date almost all the dog-fighting videos I have seen are at 0-2k "brawler" distances, and this is what Chris Roberts says he is looking to create "visceral feel" in. I see very little combat footage of players shooting habitually at 2-4k where they are in range because of their weapons choices, and their opponents are not. I have seen no footage of the sniping weapons--those that can hit beyond 4k, nor anything that shows how capable the zooming function is. I'd love to see some discussion of this, for surely players will choose to attack from beyond 2k just so they can snipe those using the short range weapons.

Although Chris said he is slowing the ships t half speed because he is looking to create a more visceral feel in the close in combat, it appears almost the opposite is true, in that slowing the ships actually affects the ability to hit them at greater range, more than at close range. The ships can now move half as much distance between when a weapon is fired and when it reaches target. This makes long range shooting MUCH easier.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/moonchilde#!/vizhome/SC2-5WpnStats/WeaponData

 

[Black Sunder]

Damn cool to see visually. Thank you!

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Okay so here is a specific question someone may be able to answer.

Using the zoom function, is it possible to target something as small as the S3, S4 and S5 turrets on a StarG from 7km? Is there a reason to use the Sledge II's at such great range, or is the usefulness lost in the inability to target with that much precision? Presume the StarG is dead in the sky and helpless. Can you hit a target like a turret?

 

[Printimus]

Pretty nifty chart!

I too have a spreadsheet tracking all the weapons and components, will share with the rest of Test when we have more data!

 

[Cherokeedog]

Well, I ain't got no idea how a Starfarer looks through the lens from 7km. I'd say that if you can distinguish the shape of the engines on it, you'll most likely hit them.

However, after an extensive and stubborn practice of bringin' a cow into a dogfight (Vanguard PVP), I can tell you something about all these long range weapons. So here it goes:

The longest ranges weapons are the ballistic ones. They also have the downside of havin' low projectile velocity, which generates a substantial lag of your aiming pip if you're in a...let's say 3 o'clock position of a moving target. Now, you'll notice that when the pip of your sniper weapon appears (which basically means you're in range), it's red, and it only gets green when your inside 1km from your target (actually, in 2.5 seems to be around 500m, but I think it's a bug). Green is optimal range, which means a high probability to hit, considering both range and bullet velocity. Red...is just a probability, one that highly depends on your target's speed and movement direction.

So, a red pip means that if your target stays there, you'll hit it. Unfortunately...targets have the bad habit of moving, so if you're in its 3 o'clock position (or 9 o'clock, if you want), you can be sure that by the time you bullet reaches that position, your opponent will be long gone and givin' you the finger.

This means that in order to actually make use of a long range weapon, you need to position yourself on your target's trajectory, be it 6 or 12 o'clock, otherwise you're just wasting ammo. You also need a bit of faith.

Now, the sledges do have the highest projectile velocity out of all current ballistic weapons, yet the long range generates the exact same problem I described. They also got a very lazy fire rate, so if you choose to use them, you'd better be a damn good marksman. I ain't.

I'll make a wild guess and assume this is likely the reason you don't see people actually shooting from the top range of their weapons.

As far as zoomin' counts, it may help you see the pimples on your target's arse, yet it doesn't overcome the issues above.

 

[Cherokeedog]

Oh and, by the way: that link is a treasure. It makes exactly the important information visible and it's really easy to compare weapons. I've been trying to find an optimal combo for a Super Hornet and I have to say this chart makes it a piece of cake.

So thanks!

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Awesome link, many thanks. Puts my 3x Mantis 1x Revenent in to perspective. Time to REC up some Panthers, me thinks...


When Stealth is put in long range sniping while hiding from radar in my Ghost will make a lot of sense :) Until then i'll keep being handed my arse by Sabres mixing it up close-range.

 

[marcsand2]

very nice stats

 

[Shadow Reaper]

As far as zoomin' counts, it may help you see the pimples on your target's arse, yet it doesn't overcome the issues above.

Agreed, and your analysis tackles the lion's share of situations. There really are very few reasons to mount the Sledges, so I don't expect to see them on other ships much. What that means is, if you have one, and your target is helpless, you could use it at max range to remove its defenses.

So for example, say you have a Sentinel and two Hoplites attacking a lone Star G. The 3 attackers pull down the shields on the tanker, the Sentinel launches its big S3 Arrestor III missiles and the StarG goes dead in the sky. Now the attackers are looking at those turrets. The ship is stopped and can't maneuver so you have all the time you need to aim and plink the turrets apart. Suppose you have Sledges mounted in the top turrets of each Vanguard. Can you actually see well enough with the zoom to hit the StarG turrets at max Sledge range and not kill the rest of the ship by mistake? That's the question.

I never see shooting vids where the player is sniping from long distance.

 

[marcsand2]

There really are very few reasons to mount the Sledges

I have seen somebody using the Sledges very effectively on a SuperHornet in close dogfight during the TEST Tournament ;)

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I have seen somebody using the Sledges very effectively on a SuperHornet in close dogfight during the TEST Tournament ;)

Was that before or after they were nerfed into the Sledge II? There was a time they were formidable. They are flat shooters, but their damage is about half what it was.

 

[marcsand2]

Was that before or after they were nerfed into the Sledge II? There was a time they were formidable. They are flat shooters, but their damage is about half what it was.

After, 3 weeks ago, TEST tournament was 2nd and 3rd weekend of September.

 

[DarthMunkee]

I frickin' love data like this. Makes me feel all tingly.

 

[Cherokeedog]

Can you actually see well enough with the zoom to hit the StarG turrets at max Sledge range and not kill the rest of the ship by mistake? That's the question.

I'd say there is an easy way to find out. If someone here has a Starfarer and is in mood to watch the fireworks, we can simply get together and try to strip it down plate by plate with whatever weapons we feel like.

I doubt you'll see vids of people using long range, 'cause Battle Royale is cramped little box that doesn't favor this approach. And when they fight in the universe, they're just doin' remakes of Arena Commander.

By the way - love the fact you introduced a Sentinel into that equation.

Now, this subject reminds me of a drill sergeant's speech in Mass Effect:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q1IaWLsyrQ

Never gets old!

 

[Shadow Reaper]

By the way - love the fact you introduced a Sentinel into that equation.

I can see great reason to fly all four Vanguard variants together. We don't know what is possible yet, but it may be that pilots and gunners forming a wing or squadron can each individually tie their respawn points to a single Warden in the mix, and if a player is killed during a boarding action they then respawn at the operation location. Certainly the Harbinger is worth having when going after those very big targets, just for access to the burly S5 missiles. I think though for most small actions, one Sentinel for each two Hoplites will be a good mix. Just three ships can take smaller, easier targets, and a full wing or six birds should be able to contend with larger targets, perhaps even Vanduul Void Bombers. A full squadron of 12 Vanguard should be enough to take on very large warships of all types, and it is worth noting the only things faster than Vanguard are short range fighters. It is doubtful even the Polaris will be as fast.

CIG intends the Vanguard to be the military strike weapon platform of choice for the UEE, and any privateering concern that intends to do long range strikes would do well to emulate UEE's approach. Vanguard rules!