Warden turning into Sentinel

[wmk]

I took a short break from the Real World yesterday and I upgraded my Warden to Sentinel

I've been getting my Warden's butt kicked by pirate Sentinels so many times in PVP that I decided to check why they're able to outmaneuver me in most of the cases, and why my shields are dropping so fast. I had no idea Sentinel is more agile than Warden and I didn't know its EMP has the longest range among all flyable Electronic Warfare ships...

The only thing I didn't like was the default paint -- but hey, there was a timberline skin available in RSI store. An hour later I was testing Sentinel in PU. I equipped it with Galdereen Repeater I've been using on Warden for many years. After quick dry run I grouped distortion guns with EMP, and left CF-557 in another. I noticed some short EMP discharge delay and confirmed it in Erkul; it looks like 1-1.5 sec.

It works great. I managed to kill NPC Gladius very quickly by stripping its shields and then finishing it with the laser repeater. Then I disabled Warlock in atmosphere -- that was something new! Watching enemy ship spinning out of control and then crashing into Hurston hills was priceless.

I have few questions to Sentinel Experts though -- Paging @vahadar

1. I assume EMP would get dedicated buttons or keys at some stage (or maybe it would be moved to the missile operator?). Am I doing this right by grouping S2 distortion guns with EMP?
   
   I really don't want to fire both laser repater and distortion guns at the same time; it doesn't make any sense. However, when EMP is enabled, I'm firing single salvo of distortion guns when charging and discharging EMP. Also, when I don't have time to power EMP off (there is no key, correct me if I'm wrong), I'm constantly cycling EMP when I have to use distortion guns.
   
   
2. Maybe there is no need to use distortion guns at all? -- all-laser weapons solves above problem.
   
   Once NPC gunners are implemented in game I would simply mount distortion guns on a turret and put a bot into it.
   
   
3. How overlocking affects EMP? -- Does it increase the range or anything?
   
   
4. I noticed higher hydrogen and quantum fuel consumption than on Warden -- Does it make sense to use non-stealth components to improve this? -- If yes, which ones?

 

[vahadar]

I'm no Sentinel expert I prefer the Raven for playing with EMP. DPS is almost the same (2700 Raven vs 2750 Sentinel) but with Raven's charge time and cool down it is much more faster than the charge rate of the Sentinel EMP (you can fire 3 EMP bursts with the Raven in the same time it will take to fire a single Sentinel EMP and have it ready for another charge).

Btw I love the screenshot you made :)

But for :

1) If you assign both the EMP and a group of gun to the same group, as you do, yes you are forced to press the trigger once to start firing and charging at same time. You can keep pressing the trigger as long as needed to shoot, it wont affect the EMP. And then you need to release the trigger and press the trigger again to release the EMP when its charged.

This is something you need to get used to the first times as you sometime need sustained fire from that weapon and might need to release/repress the trigger because of lasers ammo recharge, which can sometime affect slightly your dps because of the time it takes and might also lead to unwanted EMP release when not fully charged, or if you left the EMP powered on, with a 40s cooldown to wait :)

The solution like you mention is to power off the EMP when you dont use it, and have it associated with some guns in a group and power it on when needed. And yes there is no quick button to power on EMP unfortunately. So its not user friendly at all to manage, but some ppl probably have some macros for that?

But it leaves you during the charging of the Sentinel EMP with a 20 seconds window where you are forced to keep pressing the trigger to take advantage of DPS of the weapon associated to your EMP, or the contrary NOT keeping the trigger pressed because not in weapon range, but also not using the weapon for 20s because of the charging EMP. Then release the trigger to both cooldown the weapon (if needed) and to get ready for the EMP burst firing, and to press it again when unleashing EMP, which is less effective for controlling when you want to fire your guns on target, especially if you are just firing not at the target to only charge then release the EMP.

Personnaly as I'm no Sentinel pro, and I'm lazy ^^ I put all weapons on the same group as I'm going for max DPS at any time regardless of managing the EMP. And I assign the other group for EMP. This is the easy way to go, not the most effective one maybe but it does not require any coordination unlike above when shooting/releasing trigger and powering on/off the EMP, not easy thing to do during a fight.


2) That is really up to everyone's personnal preference here. EMP has max effectiveness on components if shields are down, so it only matters how fast you can down those shields before firing the EMP.
I use a mix of distortion (usually at least 1 gun) and lasers, as the EMP is not always enough in a Sentinel to disable a ship, and since the cooldown is so long (40 seconds, plus 20s charge time), distortion can be handy to keep the target incapacited.


3) It seems it has no effect. I did a few tests with @marcsand2 like a week ago, with a Raven/Hawk, both of us playing with the power triangle. Me going full weapon on the triangle seems to have no effect on his shields compared to default triangle or if full boost or full shield recharge. On the other hand, Marcsand being full weapon/boost recharge made him more vulnerable to the EMP, compared to when he was with default triangle, or even when he was full shield recharge (because of the shield HP bonus then). We did the tests with him being full shield dodging and me releasing the EMP, both of us simulating a dogfight to not be sitting ducks and make EMP release timer realistic.

Distance DO matter as we found out (more like as we confirmed in this patch, as it was always like that in previous patches). All EMP (Raven, Warlock, Hawk, Sentinel) all have a 750 meters max range for the max radius (according to erkul). To be honest I did not test ingame if the range are matching erkul's data. It seems also, still according to erkul that the min range for max EMP damage for a S2 EMP on Raven and Hawk is better (shorter) than for the S4 on Warlock and Sentinel. If the ennemy is on the further edge of the burst, the damage done is weaker, you need to time the release according to the vector and speed of the ennemy, your vector and speed, and the unleash timer (1.5 second on a Sentinel) to have maximum efficiency with burst at point blank (250 meters on a Sentinel).


4) Right now the stealth / non-stealth components dont matter, EM/IR wont change if you put stealth or full military. Stats are all the same for now. I do not know if it affects fuel consumption tbh.

 

[Lemming]

One thing to keep in mind, the sentinel isn't supposed to keep its EMP, it's supposed to have EMP missiles eventually. So if that's the top feature for you, an exit strategy may be good to have.

 

[vahadar]

One thing to keep in mind, the sentinel isn't supposed to keep its EMP, it's supposed to have EMP missiles eventually. So if that's the top feature for you, an exit strategy may be good to have.

This. Sentinel will be ewar ship. EMP is a temporay feature.

 

[wmk]

Even better. Electromagnetic Warfare spacecraft should avoid approaching its targets, the same as Electronic Attack aircraft in real World.

Distance DO matter as we found out (more like as we confirmed in this patch, as it was always like that in previous patches). All EMP (Raven, Warlock, Hawk, Sentinel) all have a 750 meters max range for the max radius (according to erkul).

I have a feeling that it's 1,000m but I may be wrong. We should test it ; )

 

[vahadar]

Even better. Electromagnetic Warfare spacecraft should avoid approaching its targets, the same as Electronic Attack aircraft in real World.



I have a feeling that it's 1,000m but I may be wrong. We should test it ; )

In previous patch before the weapon overhaul of last year, the EMP was affecting shield face further than its max range, so it might still be the case yes. Indeed need some testing :) But the further you are, the weaker the burst is anyway.

 

[White Lando]

I took a short break from the Real World yesterday and I upgraded my Warden to Sentinel

I've been getting my Warden's butt kicked by pirate Sentinels so many times in PVP that I decided to check why they're able to outmaneuver me in most of the cases, and why my shields are dropping so fast. I had no idea Sentinel is more agile than Warden and I didn't know its EMP has the longest range among all flyable Electronic Warfare ships...

The only thing I didn't like was the default paint -- but hey, there was a timberline skin available in RSI store. An hour later I was testing Sentinel in PU. I equipped it with Galdereen Repeater I've been using on Warden for many years. After quick dry run I grouped distortion guns with EMP, and left CF-557 in another. I noticed some short EMP discharge delay and confirmed it in Erkul; it looks like 1-1.5 sec.

It works great. I managed to kill NPC Gladius very quickly by stripping its shields and then finishing it with the laser repeater. Then I disabled Warlock in atmosphere -- that was something new! Watching enemy ship spinning out of control and then crashing into Hurston hills was priceless.

I have few questions to Sentinel Experts though -- Paging @vahadar

1. I assume EMP would get dedicated buttons or keys at some stage (or maybe it would be moved to the missile operator?). Am I doing this right by grouping S2 distortion guns with EMP?
   
   I really don't want to fire both laser repater and distortion guns at the same time; it doesn't make any sense. However, when EMP is enabled, I'm firing single salvo of distortion guns when charging and discharging EMP. Also, when I don't have time to power EMP off (there is no key, correct me if I'm wrong), I'm constantly cycling EMP when I have to use distortion guns.
   
   
2. Maybe there is no need to use distortion guns at all? -- all-laser weapons solves above problem.
   
   Once NPC gunners are implemented in game I would simply mount distortion guns on a turret and put a bot into it.
   
   
3. How overlocking affects EMP? -- Does it increase the range or anything?
   
   
4. I noticed higher hydrogen and quantum fuel consumption than on Warden -- Does it make sense to use non-stealth components to improve this? -- If yes, which ones?

View attachment 22560

Probably the biggest difference in their handling is the Gs of thrust the Sentinel can produce. I believe it's over 10? The Warden is 8 maybe? That's probably where the increased fuel consumption is coming from.

I love my Sentinel!

 

[Dirtbag_Leader]

I'm a PvE Sentinel guy and not much of a PvP guy, but here's what I can offer to this thread:
- Erkul lies, Sentinel handles WAY better than the Warden, despite Erkul saying they have the same accelerations. Always has.
- Though it sounds too late for you, best to pledge a Warden, hold the Sentinel upgrade, and buy the Sentinel in game since it's still such a stupid good deal at 2M aUEC, and then you can save the pledge-decision until the inevitable 'rework' of whatever in the fuck 'E-War' will mean in the 'future.'
- I believe current weapons meta is MVSA laser cannons (and/or some mix of distortion cannons) for the nose guns, and then either a ballistic or laser S5 cannon for the chin, for the following reasons:
- Size 5 > 4 since you need to line up the fixed nose guns anyway, so the gimbal is pretty useless.
- Size 5 repeater shots have slower projectiles than nose repeaters, so going cannons on both keeps the pip the same, and then chin cannon > repeater for more Alpha dmg.
- Ballistic cannon gives you more capacitor energy for the nose guns so is probably better for good trigger discipline, but I still run an M7A 'cause I hate disengaging to reload.
- Keeping the pips the same lets you keep everything on 1 fire group, leaving the 2nd free for the EMP.

Lastly, screw you, I love that stock dark blue/gold paint job!

 

[Richard Bong]

One thing to keep in mind, the sentinel isn't supposed to keep its EMP, it's supposed to have EMP missiles eventually. So if that's the top feature for you, an exit strategy may be good to have.

It says EMP charges not missiles. The difference between charges, the devices currently in use and missiles has never been defined, by CIG.

 

[wmk]

I'm a PvE Sentinel guy and not much of a PvP guy, but here's what I can offer to this thread:
- Erkul lies, Sentinel handles WAY better than the Warden, despite Erkul saying they have the same accelerations. Always has.
- Though it sounds too late for you, best to pledge a Warden, hold the Sentinel upgrade, and buy the Sentinel in game since it's still such a stupid good deal at 2M aUEC, and then you can save the pledge-decision until the inevitable 'rework' of whatever in the fuck 'E-War' will mean in the 'future.'
- I believe current weapons meta is MVSA laser cannons (and/or some mix of distortion cannons) for the nose guns, and then either a ballistic or laser S5 cannon for the chin, for the following reasons:
- Size 5 > 4 since you need to line up the fixed nose guns anyway, so the gimbal is pretty useless.
- Size 5 repeater shots have slower projectiles than nose repeaters, so going cannons on both keeps the pip the same, and then chin cannon > repeater for more Alpha dmg.
- Ballistic cannon gives you more capacitor energy for the nose guns so is probably better for good trigger discipline, but I still run an M7A 'cause I hate disengaging to reload.
- Keeping the pips the same lets you keep everything on 1 fire group, leaving the 2nd free for the EMP.

Lastly, screw you, I love that stock dark blue/gold paint job!

hhaha ; )

I'm playing with my SC ships like with LEGO sets -- I've been upgrading some ships multiple times, then melting and upgrading them again; this Sentinel used to be The Brave Little Aurora, then Titan, then Freelancer, then <insert_randomly_selected_ship_here>, then Warden. So, don't worry, it's not too late; I can revert it just like that.

Thanks for the projectile speed info -- I didn't know repeater projectiles are slower than those damn nose repeaters. I'll have to test cannon + cannon combo then; I've been using S5 laser repeater on Warden as that ship is too slow for the laser cannons with slow fire rate, but since Sentinel is a little more agile, I will give cannon a try.

I'm using energy-only weapon loadouts on all my ships, as I prefer mission range and combat endurance over fire power; obviously, sooner or later I have to visit some station, but ballistic ammo runs out faster than fuel.

----
Especially for you, @Dirtbag_Leader:

 

[Richard Bong]

My Warden is loaded with MVSA in the Nose and a Deadbolt V under the nose. I don't have issues with ammo speed and the burst DPS is insane.

Most missions use about 5-10 rounds out of 70. But The Deadbolt is on trigger 2.

 

[Lemming]

Man that timberline paint looks sharp.

 

[BUTUZ]

As someone who is saving for a vanguard in game - interesting stuff!

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I didn't know repeater projectiles are slower than those damn nose repeaters.

It's not ballistics v slower lasers. It's S1-4 are 1,400 m/s and S5 are 700 m/s. Total FUBAR. Lets all hope they'll go back to more reasonable and divergent stats on the weapons.

 

[Richard Bong]

It's not ballistics v slower lasers. It's S1-4 are 1,400 m/s and S5 are 700 m/s. Total FUBAR. Lets all hope they'll go back to more reasonable and divergent stats on the weapons.

Repeaters (Ballistic or Laser) S1-4 are 1400 m/s. Everything else is 700m/s, to include the MVSA. :)