Welcome to the age of expensive pixels...

Bambooza

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Sep 25, 2017
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MrBambooza
I can't even be mad. We (read: gamers as a whole) brought ourselves here. There's no changing it. There's no going back.


TLDR: The P2W argument is twisted and based on perception. Overpriced pixels aren't actually overpriced to a gamer by price per hour standards. Back in my day, games were uphill both ways in the snow...
It does amaze me that games have remained stagnant at 60 dollars for triple a titles for over a decade, given the amount of cost that goes into them plus inflation.

As for the pay to win argument, I do no know if there will ever be a correct answer, especially given how it impacts different genre of games. Where buying a 100+ sword of might that drops of a raid boss for 50 dollars on the game market (RPG PVE) would have less of an impact over buying the BFG 9000 auto target that can only be achieved from random loot boxes with a drop rate of 1 in a million (FPS PVP) for 50 dollars on the game market. It could simply be that PVE games have more tolerance towards it given it doesn't impact other players who have not bought in.

I know in EA's case they allow players to buy weapons that give them a significant advantage over players who had not for months if not years to come simply because of how the loot/rewards were structured in the game.
 

Michael

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Sep 27, 2016
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Pewbaca
I'm not disagreeing on your general opinion.

But I think the Argument $ per hours can be a fallacy. Just because there are games which can take you away for hundreds of hours it is not necessarely for every game and every scenario a true argument. Also you should ask yourself "How well do i feel entertained?". Do you reall want to compare a 200$ skydive with ~10 minutes of entertainment with a Computer game?
What about your holiday?

The next thing is Multiplayer where 50% of the time you spend in the game you're actually interacting with people and not the game. So are you playing the game or is it like talking too your neighbor (which costs almost nothing)?

Still i think YES gaming is cheap for probably 1-3$ per hour. You should add cost for food/drink too on your bill while playing and not going out or reduce those cost by the same amount for your "going out" scenario.

Alsi I think some of your examples are a little bit exaggerated.

The last point is no one will grind from base mission to the HH. I hope CR will not break his promises and we can earn a Connie in ~40 h of play.

Other examples of cheap entertainment:
take a walk
hiking
Visiti friends or get visited
play a card game
read a book
go to free events in your hometown

Its 5:25 here so my thoughts aren't pretty clear yet.
 
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Bruttle

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Aug 20, 2016
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As for the pay to win argument, I do no know if there will ever be a correct answer, especially given how it impacts different genre of games. Where buying a 100+ sword of might that drops of a raid boss for 50 dollars on the game market (RPG PVE) would have less of an impact over buying the BFG 9000 auto target that can only be achieved from random loot boxes with a drop rate of 1 in a million (FPS PVP) for 50 dollars on the game market. It could simply be that PVE games have more tolerance towards it given it doesn't impact other players who have not bought in.

I think this is key right here. I completely agree that there is no right or wrong answer to the P2W argument. I think that it is very much game specific. You hit on a very good point. Generally speaking there is far less salt in PVE games than PVP when it comes to buying advantage. That pill is so much easier to swallow when the purchaser is helping you instead of wiping the floor with you.

I think SC will be unique in this aspect. Yes, there will be PVP. I hope there is a ton of it actually. SC also allows you to bypass months of grinding with a simple swipe of some plastic. However, that's not the end of it. I think the key point is what you are buying with your swipe. You aren't swiping to superiority by purchasing an Anvil BFG1000 super fighter with unlimited ammo and shield capacity. You're swiping for an Idris, Hammerhead, Polaris, etc. Your superiority is entirely dependent on if you have enough friends to help you fly it. It is dependent on whether or not you have the infrastructure and resources to afford flying it. It requires that you be established in the game and have the requisite skills.

My concept of P2W involves an OP gun for RM rent in a FPS. It's an unbeatable gear set that can either be obtained in a 0.5% lootbox drop or by spending 2,000,000 hours grinding. Its allowing items to be upgraded to god like status by using a super rare resource, but then putting that resource in the cash shop. It becomes less competition and more a contest of who is wealthier or capable of the worst life decisions.

My beef isn't just with P2W though. It is with game mechanics that are either specifically designed to promote unhealthy habits (aka loot box gambling addictions), or intentionally block gameplay and content to coerce additional spending. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind spending money on what I enjoy. If your business model requires constant money flow, require a monthly sub. If you created additional content, go ahead and charge for it. MAKE A PRODUCT WORTH BUYING AND I WILL BUY IT. Just don't think for a second those cheap tactics go unnoticed. Don't advertise a whole game but then at the last minute chop it in half and charge a second time for the other 50%. Don't put a timer on gameplay. Don't hide essential features behind cash shops. Stop making it a choice between $5 or 20+ hours of grinding.

That's where most developers seem to be heading, because it works. It is far more effective for a company to cheat, coerce, lie, and even all out scam the player base than it is to sell it for what it's worth. When Activision/Blizzard pulled $4-fucking-billion dollars in loot boxes, microtransactions, and DLCs in a single year, the rest of the gaming developers took notice. Why scrub around and just pay the bills when there are billions to be made. There's no going back after that.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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Why scrub around and just pay the bills when there are billions to be made. There's no going back after that.
They opened Pandoras Loot Box: only this time, there doesn't seems to be any hope left in the bottom once all the evil has flown out of it.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Jun 3, 2016
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I completely agree that there is no right or wrong answer to the P2W argument.
I think it's worth keeping in mind that if "winning" involved being effective in whatever kind os scenario you might involve yourself, there are certainly arguments to make that only time in the verse will make you a winner. Someone who plays every day, whether he is grinding or flying his favorite, very expensive ship; is going to generally be more effective than someone who has to fight to game 3-4 hours/week. You just can't learn enough to be as good at most things in just a few hours, but you can have fun.

So really if you can only afford a few hours, and therefore don't want to be grinding, you probably will buy a nicer ship to start, but this won't make you "win".
 

Crymsan

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Mar 10, 2016
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Lets be honest here the P2w is a pvp argument that specifically revolves around some being able to buy a better combat ship. However you spin star citizen this is true. I do not however see any P2w in a for example reclaimer (well okay its tough and has good guns) but industrial ships generally wont affect pvp much. I am not trying to ignore pilot skill team work or anything else but you can buy better ships for pvp than the starter ships.
 

DarthMatter

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Jul 18, 2016
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IMO, SC gets away with it as I see it more as a toy box than a game you can "win".
You buy a toy and play with it. Your enjoyment is not necessarily linked to the expense of the toy.

Sure, you might see someone with a bigger and shinier toy than you, and you get jealous.
But with enough time just having fun and playing with the toy you already have, you could be able to afford the big one in the future.
And if people (assholes) keep you from having fun (repeatedly killing you along a trade route for example). The game will (probably) be big enough for you to be able to get away from them and continue having fun somewhere else.

Something I think helps with the last point is knowing that different ships do different things. Even military ship have different roles, especially when combining into fleets.
Everything is not gonna be a good 1v1 fighter, because not everything is meant to be. Different toys for different ways to play with them.

Personally, I would LOVE to be admiral of a big armada, sitting on a carrier and ordering the fleet(s) around. Sometimes.
Not for my gameplay in general. I want to explore and do a bit if fighting, but nothing that requires anything carrier sized.
And for when I want to scratch the itch of something bigger, I can take a look around TEST-friends and see if anyone wanna play together and maybe lend me their toy for a little bit.
 
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