This video struck a cord with me. The author is not a hater... he is trying to give an objective view.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4mlspjuNqA
Will SC ever be released - out of Alpha or Beta?
- Thread starter ColdDog
- Start date
I think I watched this last month, nothing new, same old complaints about taking long.
Nobody is going argue that 10yrs is not long. But also:
Nobody is going argue that 10yrs is not long. But also:
I backed around 2015/16 so I'm lucky that I was never under any other impression that this was going to be a long haul or that it may indeed not finish ever at all...
I sympathize with those who joined earlier who were under the impression that there would be alternate timelines, however they also were under no false impression that it would not happen. It's part of the kickstarter, it's part of crowd funding, drop your dough but be aware this is one hole that may never be filled and never be finished.
For anyone who joined around the same time as me/after me, you walked in eyes open - the fact the project is still running should give us all hope as the potential for a KickStarter is that it can fail and not deliver.
And don't forget, we're building two games, one of which is off the radar and from what we have been told almost on the doorstep of an S42 Beta.
Do I think it's taken too long? I'd have wanted a finished product when I first backed. I'd actually have wanted it to have been finished and out for 3 years before I backed. But I'd rather it take "too long" and have access to play it during that time rather than it fail and not happen at all.
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While typing the above, I imagined if Duke Nukeum Forever had been crowd funded with Backers, who would have had to have waited for 14 years before it finally arrived as a product out of its time... DNF, if it had arrived when it was originally intended to have in the late 90's in the form it arrived 14 years later, it would have blown everyone away but when it did get to us it was an also-ran without the advantage of its uniqueness...
That is something I don't want for SC.
For all the innovation SC is doing, for all the talent and expansion of abilities and potentials, we do not exist in a vacuum... the competition has had nearly 10 years of open development and communication to come up with competing engines etc which we may not know of yet, which CIG may not know of yet. I don't want us get to 6 months from release and suddenly have another new or established game property with an existing player base come out of nowhere with similar capabilities and overshadow what has been years of effort and wait.
Do I think that's possible that is going to happen? I don't know, but it's a risk that grows greater the longer it takes for our game to come to fruition. We'll just have to sit back and see how it goes.
I sympathize with those who joined earlier who were under the impression that there would be alternate timelines, however they also were under no false impression that it would not happen. It's part of the kickstarter, it's part of crowd funding, drop your dough but be aware this is one hole that may never be filled and never be finished.
For anyone who joined around the same time as me/after me, you walked in eyes open - the fact the project is still running should give us all hope as the potential for a KickStarter is that it can fail and not deliver.
And don't forget, we're building two games, one of which is off the radar and from what we have been told almost on the doorstep of an S42 Beta.
Do I think it's taken too long? I'd have wanted a finished product when I first backed. I'd actually have wanted it to have been finished and out for 3 years before I backed. But I'd rather it take "too long" and have access to play it during that time rather than it fail and not happen at all.
---
While typing the above, I imagined if Duke Nukeum Forever had been crowd funded with Backers, who would have had to have waited for 14 years before it finally arrived as a product out of its time... DNF, if it had arrived when it was originally intended to have in the late 90's in the form it arrived 14 years later, it would have blown everyone away but when it did get to us it was an also-ran without the advantage of its uniqueness...
That is something I don't want for SC.
For all the innovation SC is doing, for all the talent and expansion of abilities and potentials, we do not exist in a vacuum... the competition has had nearly 10 years of open development and communication to come up with competing engines etc which we may not know of yet, which CIG may not know of yet. I don't want us get to 6 months from release and suddenly have another new or established game property with an existing player base come out of nowhere with similar capabilities and overshadow what has been years of effort and wait.
Do I think that's possible that is going to happen? I don't know, but it's a risk that grows greater the longer it takes for our game to come to fruition. We'll just have to sit back and see how it goes.
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Waiting since 2012 here. Yes the game was promised to be released like 2 years after (as per campaign goal) but now we are far from that.
I backed Elite Dangerous that year too, so when i want a space sim fix, other than Star Citizen alpha, i jump to Elite.
But the scope of SC is so big that i can wait another 4-5 years without getting annoyed :) There are plenty of great games released since 2012, and many more to come!
I backed Elite Dangerous that year too, so when i want a space sim fix, other than Star Citizen alpha, i jump to Elite.
But the scope of SC is so big that i can wait another 4-5 years without getting annoyed :) There are plenty of great games released since 2012, and many more to come!
I am a bit worried/dissapointed because it seems there is no "final and accurate aim" for when release would be and exactly what that release would entail, it's just a continuously increasing amount of features and targets and new technology with seemingly no end.
Every time they make 2% progress another feature is added that will need 3% more progress to be made.
I personally think this is gonna be in beta for another 5 years.
Every time they make 2% progress another feature is added that will need 3% more progress to be made.
I personally think this is gonna be in beta for another 5 years.
It will be released when ship purchases dry up (yes, I am cynical)
I don't think you're cynical, that's what they said at one point (In an interview when they took the $45 million for 10%)
While sales are providing lots of R&D money they'd continue to R&D, but when that drops below a threshold that'll freeze and the game will be completed with what has been achieved to that point.
I'm fairly sure with the recent announcement of opening a specialist System Dev department in Canada that might have changed though.
Nah, you are just accurate.
I do believe that they want to finish the game mechanics and asetts they start, the devs are just the devs, they want to make it work and make it all be fun and bug free. As long as they get payed something, they will keep doing it.
But there's always fresh money, and fresh ideas to spend it on. As long as it keeps rolling in, with ship sales or when SQ42 goes retail in a couple of years hopefully, they will keep adding, changing and iterating. Once the money starts drying up, there will be a frantic push to get as many things into a roughly playable state as possible, meanwhile with more and more greedy ship and stuff sales going on to keep at least some money flowing so they can release it in as good a state as money allows.
I believe we will see a release one day. It will be a long long time from now, and whether it will be in any better state than Cyberpunk was, no one can tell at this point.
If we look at it realistically, nothing, literally nothing in the game works a 100% / bug-free at this point. Which is fine, they have their reasons not fixing stuff this "early".this has been explained countless times and it is okay!
But with the size of the game, the amount of things that needs to be fixed " sometimes later", is enormous! Getting things fixed up will take an extra year at least imo, more likely two. So after like 5 more years of adding stuff like game mechanics, damage types, ships, planets, Ai pets, and whatever, add another 2 years of bug fixing and "Beta testing", at least.
Question is, will the money keep flowing for 7-10 more years with this seemingly slow and endless progress?
I dunno.
Everyone keeps saying the game is dead, then I look at the real numbers and they get more money year over year. So it looks like we will be "enjoying" alpha testing for quiet a long time still.
Regardless... bad behavior is rewarded. Wait... Wait... Wait... its ok... don't worry... it will be worth it... lol. SC has really become joke but yet we still buy into all the BS because there. Maybe its time I cancel my imperator because I am beginning to think I am complicit with SCs I don't give a shit attitude. Next time your at a restaurant and you've been sitting two hours waiting for your food and the cook says its done when it will be done with no eta... remember this.
Really, its missing major components such as an economy, crafting, building, exploration, and generic content that adds meaning and flavor to the environment. After 10 years, all they have is great graphics with no substance.
Really, its missing major components such as an economy, crafting, building, exploration, and generic content that adds meaning and flavor to the environment. After 10 years, all they have is great graphics with no substance.
It gets frustrating bud, I know. Can't really disagree with you, but I think peoples perspective of the game is polarized and its clear why. You either approach with optimism or pessimism and neither is unreasonable. Personally I try to ride the fence, critical and frustrated enough that I understand the criticism, but optimistic enough to be satisfied with the progress. After years of waiting, it really tests a persons patience.
Jolly, I am just pointing out facts... if your happy with SC great, but there has to be a breaking point... is that 10 years from now or two months that the majority of backers throw in the towel and write off the project as an overall loss, accepting their gamble did not pay off. At some point we just have to say its a loss or a win, right now from my perspective it appears to be moving to the loss category. That's why it is crowd funded - no start or end dates and no real accountability.
The game is not horrible, but it is definitely not great after 10 years and 300 million in funding. My backing remains, sink or swim - i dont have a choice, I trusted SC mgt to make better decisions.
The game is not horrible, but it is definitely not great after 10 years and 300 million in funding. My backing remains, sink or swim - i dont have a choice, I trusted SC mgt to make better decisions.
[RANT]
how far away is the first iteration of server meshing?
and object persistence?
when those are ready we could go live, with incremental additions of systems, gear, and PVE content down the road
we will have to accept limits on players per shard, and CIG will have to incorporate those limits into the game's design
as the numbers go up, tracking and syncing everything grows exponentially more difficult
CCP hit the concurrency wall in Eve Online years ago and haven't progressed since
if there was a ready-made solution, CIG would have bought the rights to it
CIG are exploring virgin territory without a map
they need to release an imperfect game and pray their present architecture works with the solution that eventually gets developed
[/RANT]
how far away is the first iteration of server meshing?
and object persistence?
when those are ready we could go live, with incremental additions of systems, gear, and PVE content down the road
we will have to accept limits on players per shard, and CIG will have to incorporate those limits into the game's design
as the numbers go up, tracking and syncing everything grows exponentially more difficult
CCP hit the concurrency wall in Eve Online years ago and haven't progressed since
if there was a ready-made solution, CIG would have bought the rights to it
CIG are exploring virgin territory without a map
they need to release an imperfect game and pray their present architecture works with the solution that eventually gets developed
[/RANT]
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Not knowing how much content that CIG has created and has working for Squadron 42 makes it difficult to gauge the accuracy of 'its taking too long' complaints.
The question might be: Taking too long for ... what? For creating game content? Or do they actually have content they are holding back, and taking it slow for other reasons.
For all we know, SQ42 has working star systems, space ports, NPCs, economy nodes, and more that can be reused to quickly expand the Star Citizen world once the SQ42 reveal occurs.
One needs to pause and ask: Why would Chris Roberts want to tackle two herculean games like this at the same time?
Maybe because he could build the assets for two games together at the same time? Are SQ42 details being hidden from us only for the storyline, or something more?
What is the something more. Hmmm...
The question might be: Taking too long for ... what? For creating game content? Or do they actually have content they are holding back, and taking it slow for other reasons.
For all we know, SQ42 has working star systems, space ports, NPCs, economy nodes, and more that can be reused to quickly expand the Star Citizen world once the SQ42 reveal occurs.
One needs to pause and ask: Why would Chris Roberts want to tackle two herculean games like this at the same time?
Maybe because he could build the assets for two games together at the same time? Are SQ42 details being hidden from us only for the storyline, or something more?
What is the something more. Hmmm...
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Then please tell me when its going to be done... without speculating?
10 more years. Though maybe not because of lack of game content creation?
Maybe because CIG can generate $47M per year selling concept space ship pixels even before they launch a game, a practice that may draw less revenue and more ire after a game is launched?
Its a brilliant business model. Sell 'limited' game content pixels to hungry 'collectors' before ever launching the game. Why not run with that gravy train longer when its only growing?
If we stop buying concept ships and playing the CCU trade up game, revenue will slow, causing CIG to have to launch the game to get subscription revenues instead. Then we will know.
Cloud Imperium Financials for 2019 - Cloud Imperium Games
Maybe because CIG can generate $47M per year selling concept space ship pixels even before they launch a game, a practice that may draw less revenue and more ire after a game is launched?
Its a brilliant business model. Sell 'limited' game content pixels to hungry 'collectors' before ever launching the game. Why not run with that gravy train longer when its only growing?
If we stop buying concept ships and playing the CCU trade up game, revenue will slow, causing CIG to have to launch the game to get subscription revenues instead. Then we will know.
Cloud Imperium Financials for 2019 - Cloud Imperium Games
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I've been playing for a while now. My most memorable play sessions were in patches 2.4/2.5/2.6.
To my knowledge I was the first player ever to fly round the Broken Moon of Taranis 2 in a glitched session of AC where I got past the barrier wall and in the same glitch flew down to the planets surface over a year before that was a thing in the game, the below happened in 2016, moon/planet surfaces came in December 2017:
I took on a group of players holding Security Port Kareah single handed, and after dying six times in a row on the seventh I dove right at the station, ejecting at the last moment. While I was EVAing to the station they all bundled inside and blow their ships up with self destruct... all but one. I stole that ship and one by one they reappeared in their ships, having respawned and come at me from Olisar. It was Glorious, using their own ship to take them on.
I had a drag race between my 350R and another player in the then newly released Herald, I was faster off the line but over the 10km drag strip we set out in space he had the legs to overtake me and take the finish line.
In later patches I've hung out with Montoya and the gang on a maneuver to take Jump Town. In a patch later than that I picked up a stranded player in Outer Space and took them to a port and it turned out they were streaming to a live audience, my wife jumped on to the stream and helpfully let me know that the Streamer looked to have gotten lost in my Starfarer.
Have I already had more than my monies worth? If I'd only paid $45 for an Aurora Starter Package, I'd say hell yeah, but as you've seen above I have a 350R and a Starfarer so the jury is still out on that... But I can say I've had some satisfying play sessions.
It's not all been smooth sailing - Yes, I've also had more 30k's than I can count losing me vast sums in cargo. Yes, I've also been locked out of an entire patch as it would just not let me log in. Yes I've had more missions bug out than actually complete successfully... But if the whole thing wound up tomorrow, I'd certainly be disappointed and I'd also regret not having been able to fly my Endeavor (if it ever turns up!) but I'd also be able to look back on the above glories and say I'd had my share of fun in the game.
So I am fortunate to have been able to have such unique experiences already, and what's more they are vivid memories of parts of a past that is almost unrecognizable from what the game offers now. In this regard I am very fortunate indeed as I perhaps am afforded a very reassuring sense of perspective because of it.
So, what memories of past glories do you have, @ColdDog ? I'd love to hear some of your tales if you'd be kind enough to share them
There is no reason to believe they have stuff built for squadron that would be necessary and beneficial to make the PU what it is supposed to be. Rather I think they are waiting on tech from the PU to make Squadron work the same way, which it shouldn't have to.
The short version is that sq42 doesn't (at least shouldn't) require 90% of the systems that would make the PU work, like server-anything and game mechanics like salvage. They will share assets and asset creation tools (like clouds and planet creation tools), flight model, visual stuff (like comms), maybe some parts of the AI, FPS combat, obviously the backbone system of the physics grid, and that's about it. This is stuff we already have, and had for years.
The rest that's required by the PU, like server meshing and i-cache, we don't. Squadron should not require any of those, as it's a single player scripted game, and should be made as such.
What I think the problem is, that after mostly mocking up the traditional single player game, they went absolutely crazy and instead of making a single player scripted space shooter (with fps), they are now trying to make the whole thing work on the PU backbone, which is lacking tons of tech to pull this off, thus the delay. This is actually a great long-time investment, but a terrible delay for now, cos that long-time is taking 10+ years.
And yeah, 10 years sounds about right, if the funding dies down by year 6-7, I guess they will go for a "release" cos they have to cos funding and shit... You are absolutely on the money with that I think!
@ColdDog
Just for some non speculation: it has been stated by CiG some years ago that they do have the money to finish both games to a state that is playable and ready for release, even if they get 0 income from tomorrow on. It has also been said that both games would be lacking in scope and content, obviously. How long this finishing would take, has not been stated.
So yes, you should still see a released squadron and PU, someday, although accidents and disease and shit, or simply old-age might intervene.
You do you mate. If I interpret what you written correctly, you had enough of this going seemingly nowhere, and it's a perfectly logical look at the state of things.
I sure as hell cut my CiG sub a long ass time ago, the online content they've been putting out doesn't justify any spending and hasn't done so for years now.
I had a similar feeling when this years roadmap popped up, mostly empty of actual substance, instead littered with more guns and armor and meaningless shite they can sell us. Assets. Assets are NOT substance. It's just more pixels to sell.
But as the roadmap usually doesn't mean anything until stuff is released, I just ignore it by now.
Who knows, maybe Kevin from the cleaning department accidentally bumps a keyboards and solves all the server meshing code one night, and we get Pyro and salvage and repair mechanics released in 2 weeks...
For your question of "when", no one will be able to give a correct answer. I highly doubt even CR has any realistic idea about it at this point...
For me it became a question of "how much fun am I having along the way", instead of "how much fun will it be someday". Sometimes it gets better, sometimes worse. Sometimes I get into it, and then feel that it's all bullshit. Sometimes I love it and tell all about my journeys around the verse to all who would listen.
I still shout about both here on Test cos you ppl read my ramblings, so why not?
Even though I care much less with every passing year, as it gets more clear that there is a longer road still ahead than behind us.
I have my 150ish dollars spent, 70-80ish for me, the rest spent on 2 extra accounts for friends/family. I got 3 ships and that's it. That's the amount I was willing to throw away over like 5 years, and got rewarded with enough fun playtime to call it even by now. I think the wife's account is also original LTI, so it might be worth something someday at least lol.... Anyways, I spent way more on games I enjoyed less over the decades, so it doesn't bother me. For those who spent thousands upon thousands on this "vision"... well, it's your money, your fun, and also your problem. Meh, what do I care...
I totally agree. Which is why I see Star Citizen as a retirement program. Invest in ships for the next 10 years while I still have an income (I hope!), to have fun during the rest!
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I agree, this game is not for everyone and I do think it has its problems, notably the management and how they prioritize stuff. My concern is not the game, it is the lack of game. If they would have set aside some of the ship building and focused on game play more maybe we'd all be happier campers.
It almost seems like they came out with FPS... gave us star marine and stopped. The economy should have been one of the first things done but still in 2021 were sitting here. Maybe this game is progressing so slow that what other AAA games do in a year takes CIG 10 years to do. Who knows, but I do think they are trying to add content. I would suggest to CIG implement a building system so we can make bases... some other org attacks our base and walla we have our own content. Now we have to build/protect and project power. That kind of game play was created by simply implementing a building system... which could lead to months of fun. The same could be said with an economy, we create our own content, flying goods around and dodging rivals and pirates by creating our own shipping lanes.
The short of it, CIG did not give us the proper tools to entertain ourselves. My opinion. Again, I am not saying the game is bad, I am just saying there really isn't much to it.