Would you pay more for TEST Products in SC

[NaffNaffBobFace]

@Montoya selling a $10 t-shirt... I think you should have a bartering link to offer other stuff. What if we were able to use UAE credits to buy shirts... could be like our crypto currency.

"Could be like out crypto currency" The UEC or the shirts?

I like the idea of buying things with TEST shirts. A good meal out? That'll be 3 TEST t-shirts. A new GPU? Well you can have a 1050ti for 17 t-shirts.

And if it goes like Bitcoin a TEST t-shirt could become worth £10,000 and you'd have to pay in thirds of an inch of cloth. I'd have a new car for the cost of a sleave of a TEST shirt in that future world.

 

[ColdDog]

And if it goes like Bitcoin a TEST t-shirt could become worth £10,000 and you'd have to pay in thirds of an inch of cloth. I'd have a new car for the cost of a sleave of a TEST shirt in that future world.

Exactly, that is my point! Glad someone got it... we know @Montoya didn't :)

 

[DirectorGunner]

If someone is looking for a special benefit to offer TEST brothers and sisters...

I like friendships with benefits.... ;D

 

[Sraika]

It's not unreasonable to sell things to org members at a discounted price, as long as it's the same (or not too much more) than what you got them at. You already see something similar right now with people selling ships to org members, although there are admittedly some differences with that.
As far as buying things that cost more, simply because they came from TEST, that really depends. If i have to go out of my way to do that, or if they're selling it right next to someone else who's selling it cheaper, then no way. But if it's easier for me to buy TEST stuff, then I wouldn't mind a price increase. Well, a price increase proportionate to how much time/effort/whatever I save by getting it in-org, obviously. If you're just tacking on an extra 20 uec per unit 'cause you're in the same org, though, don't expect anyone to go for that.

 

[maynard]

there's more to pricing than what the goods are

I will sell you my unrefined ore cheaper if you pick it up at the mine and save me the time and expense of getting it to market

the markup on minerals I refine at my mining site will reflect more than the added refining cost - I will capture the value added by reducing shipping costs

TESTes, by forming our own mining, manufacturing and trade hubs, will be able to exploit the advantages proximity provides without having to discount prices

 

[Grimm_Reaper]

Other than Jpegs I have really avoided physical stuff till the game came out and I have a chance to play and interact with the group in the verse. That being said I'm a big fan of discounts and a good quality product at a cheaper price is always good in my books.

This being said if two sellers were offering the product for around the same price and one was a Testie, I'd go with Testie is the Bestie. Ofcourse with 12k+ members I would need the following

- Motoyas special dance of approval
- Testies secret handshake
- And the most important question. Will a Testie share his Beer?

 

[Thalstan]

one other caveat to my earlier saying about finding a reasonable deal that benefits both parties. It's been my observation that if one person wants a sweet deal on an a resource, then turns around and either resells or does some manufacturing and resells that for huge profits, it creates a huge amount of resentment in an org.

examples So we capture a ship from pirates worth 2 billion credits on the open market. Now, player XYZ asks if he can have it since he has "always wanted one" instead of selling it for guild funds or funds to split, they just agree if he covers the costs of the mission (20 million) 5 days later you find he sold for 2 Billion credits because it "wasn't what he thought it was."

*DELETED PORTION, THIS WAS AN INCORRECT ANALOGY I am posting something better in a later post*

In the above instance, people can feel like they are being taken advantage of even if that is not the intent.

 

[Edgewise]

9 times in 10, I will buy what is convenient. So if you sell something more expensively but I'm right there, I'll buy it unless it's so much more expensive that's it's worth the effort to go elsewhere. As for selling, it's the same. I'll sell cheaper if I can sell it here and now than if I have to take it someplace else.

 

[Sethious]

I know this has been stated, but org materials will be cheaper and more profitable for org members. Think about the overall transactions. On a paid exchange they will charge a cut, but if you just make a trade with an org member it will be much less.

 

[Xist]

To those of you who think it's a good idea to discount your goods, let's consider an example:

Player A mines 1000 UEC worth of minerals.

Player A sells minerals at 10% discount to Player B.

Player B manufactures 2000 UEC worth of widgets using the minerals.

Player B sells the widgets at 10% discount to Player C.

So, who wins and who loses?

Player A, the miner, gets fucked. He lost 10% of the value he should have earned. -100 UEC.

Player B, the industrialist, only loses 5%. He saved 10% on his cost but lost 10% of his larger sale amount. -100 UEC.

Player C comes out the only winner, having saved 10% of the finished product. He basically took money from the miner and the industrialist. +200 UEC.

This is fundamentally fucked up.

The key is NOT giving discounts to your org mates. It's working together to save EVERYONE money. Save on hauling fees, escort fees, market fees. Don't discount prices though, that's just stealing from the people who actually do the hard work.

Outsiders want to do business with us? Their costs are much higher so they make less than we do.

I like where most of your heads are at - help out org mates. That is to be commended.

However, giving discounts is a misguided way to try to do that and it only ends up hurting the very people you're trying to help.

 

[rogesh]

To those of you who think it's a good idea to discount your goods, let's consider an example:

Player A mines 1000 UEC worth of minerals.

Player A sells minerals at 10% discount to Player B.

Player B manufactures 2000 UEC worth of widgets using the minerals.

Player B sells the widgets at 10% discount to Player C.

So, who wins and who loses?

Player A, the miner, gets fucked. He lost 10% of the value he should have earned. -100 UEC.

Player B, the industrialist, only loses 5%. He saved 10% on his cost but lost 10% of his larger sale amount. -100 UEC.

Player C comes out the only winner, having saved 10% of the finished product. He basically took money from the miner and the industrialist. +200 UEC.

This is fundamentally fucked up.

The key is NOT giving discounts to your org mates. It's working together to save EVERYONE money. Save on hauling fees, escort fees, market fees. Don't discount prices though, that's just stealing from the people who actually do the hard work.

Outsiders want to do business with us? Their costs are much higher so they make less than we do.

I like where most of your heads are at - help out org mates. That is to be commended.

However, giving discounts is a misguided way to try to do that and it only ends up hurting the very people you're trying to help.

Unless. player a saves on time and transport costs since player b pickes it up himself. More time to mine more ore can benefit player a.

Then player b would need to strike a similar deal or since he sells on spot he would only have the inital transport cost. Also he would benefit if it was a guarantee sell to player c. He wouldn't need to worry if he can sell all widgets. (having that stuff in a warehouse costs money to)

And player c would benefit since he got that 10% discount.
So it all depends on the circumstances. By all means I would sell at normal prices to if it wouldn't benefit me or would cut in my earnings but a TESTie might get a better deal out of me than an outsider. Doesn't mean that this has to be standard operation for TEST.
I wouldn't want to buy cheaper stuff if it means hurting another TESTie. The opposite also stands true.

 

[Xist]

I think we're ultimately saying the same thing @rogesh

We're just looking at it slightly differently. I'm looking at the market price as THE price. If you have to transport goods to market and defend them during that transport, those are additional costs you incur when selling to outsiders.

When selling to Corp mates, no such additional costs are needed and therefore you profit more.

The person buying from you also profits more because they don't have to transport the goods back from market.

Reducing the price further is wholly unnecessary and only hurts the producers of the goods to the benefit of the consumers.

 

[SullyQuindarius]

I'd probably pay a bit more to help out fellow TEST members, or sell at a lower price. But I mean like ships. Minerals and other commodities with fluctuating prices, probably not.

 

[Vavrik]

I have participated in virtual micro-economies for over 10 years, and made several discount decisions for groups. The idea is you're a member of a community, and you're giving back in the way you can. Nobody suggests you do so under duress. These virtual economies are free markets at their best.

The example above is a straw man, because the assumption is player A is fucked because he lost 10%? How did he lose? Is mining that mineral running on a 10% margin over costs? You don't lose anything by discounting profit, so depending on what his costs were he might actually have been the big winner in this transaction.

 

[Xist]

I have participated in virtual micro-economies for over 10 years, and made several discount decisions for groups. The idea is you're a member of a community, and you're giving back in the way you can. Nobody suggests you do so under duress. These virtual economies are free markets at their best.

The example above is a straw man, because the assumption is player A is fucked because he lost 10%? How did he lose? Is mining that mineral running on a 10% margin over costs? You don't lose anything by discounting profit, so depending on what his costs were he might actually have been the big winner in this transaction.

Clearly the consumer was the only winner. The other 2 lost UEC on the transaction compared to if they had just sold it on the open market.

I'm not sure how you can see the data in any other way.

 

[rogesh]

I think we're ultimately saying the same thing @rogesh

We're just looking at it slightly differently. I'm looking at the market price as THE price. If you have to transport goods to market and defend them during that transport, those are additional costs you incur when selling to outsiders.

When selling to Corp mates, no such additional costs are needed and therefore you profit more.

The person buying from you also profits more because they don't have to transport the goods back from market.

Reducing the price further is wholly unnecessary and only hurts the producers of the goods to the benefit of the consumers.

Nah I don't think so. I tried to give a contra example or a deeper insight in your example trying to show that it might have been legitimate to give that 10%. If you would only look in tje transactions you might be right but you don't know the background. For example the miner would need 20-30 minutes to go from his site to somewhere he can sell his stuff. While if he had continued to mine could colect lets say another 200-300 worth of ore. So he even would have made plus on the deal with the 10% discount on his wares. Since hauling it back would cost time and fuel which would have cut in his earnings.

 

[Vavrik]

You only lose money by selling at a loss, not just by selling below market value.

It works like this. Cost of mining (Fuel, amortized cost of the ship, transportation costs, everyone's time) for arguments sake lets say it totals 750 UEC. this is an arbitrary number, an estimate - because if the cost of mining the mineral was 1000 UEC, the and the market price was 1000 - then what's the point of mining it?

Then you sell the minerals for 900 UEC instead of market value (1000). You made 150 UEC, instead of 250. That is not a loss, you're still ahead. You have 150 more UEC in your account than you would have had by sitting on your duff, how is that a loss?

 

[Montoya]

I like where most of your heads are at - help out org mates. That is to be commended.

However, giving discounts is a misguided way to try to do that and it only ends up hurting the very people you're trying to help.

Yep.

I like where you guys are going, but the profits we will be making will not come from selling things to ourselves at cheaper prices.

The profits come when an asteroid made of pure gold is discovered in dangerous Vanduul space. Only an active org with 200 mining ships ready to deploy, and 28 Javelins to protect them can do and quickly grab that chunk of rock before anybody else can mobilize.

How we make our money will depend on how we utilize our assets to our greatest advantage.

Jack selling to Bob at a 5% discount is not how money is made! Think bigger! Not smaller!

 

[Vavrik]

Yep.

I like where you guys are going, but the profits we will be making will not come from selling things to ourselves at cheaper prices.

The profits come when an asteroid made of pure gold is discovered in dangerous Vanduul space. Only an active org with 200 mining ships ready to deploy, and 28 Javelins to protect them can do and quickly grab that chunk of rock before anybody else can mobilize.

How we make our money will depend on how we utilize our assets to our greatest advantage.

Jack selling to Bob at a 5% discount is not how money is made! Think bigger! Not smaller!

Am I allowed to wack our Glorious Leader over the head with a wet noodle?

What if Jack is able to sell to Abe, Bob, Charlie, Denise, [skip a few], Yasmine, and Zach because he offers a discount, and Henry sells next to nothing, because he doesn't offer a discount?

Problem with the asteroid made of gold is that it's gonna cost a lot to maintain that fleet of Javelins. Dang things. But I like that they're going to be there - enough that I'd feel compelled to help pay for them to be there, in which case I want to be Jack in MY example, who leverages the tools of business to make himself into the WalMart of Mining.

 

[Doggen]

You pay full price! FULL PRICE!