Face tracking, my worries and issues.

[marcsand2]

And I don't think that the designers who workout the faceanimation stuff have much else to do at this state of the game. (Correct me if I'm wrong here)

The faceanimation also is necessary for Squadron 42 movie clips and for NPC face animations. The movie clips can be edited afterwards to look better, but the NPC face animation has to be done during game or only has a fixed amount of sentences. Making it flexible and rendered in real time is the difference between fixed movie clips for missions or real time missions.
It also minimizes game data to an unlimited sentence and scripted face animation sequence instead of a limited shitload of NPC mission movie clips.
I don't think that CIG wasted resources for a gimmick, they need it to make the NPCs more realistic and it is only a small step extra to use this too on player characters.

 

[Mich Angel]

The faceanimation also is necessary for Squadron 42 movie clips and for NPC face animations. The movie clips can be edited afterwards to look better, but the NPC face animation has to be done during game or only has a fixed amount of sentences. Making it flexible and rendered in real time is the difference between fixed movie clips for missions or real time missions.
It also minimizes game data to an unlimited sentence and scripted face animation sequence instead of a limited shitload of NPC mission movie clips.
I don't think that CIG wasted resources for a gimmick, they need it to make the NPCs more realistic and it is only a small step extra to use this too on player characters.

Yeah! they connect the dots.. and voila you got a panda bear! instead of a lot of dots here and there :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
Not to much work in that :smile:

 

[sum1]

USE PEPPERMINT MARKER ON SCREEN FOR BEST RESULTS!!!

 

[Mich Angel]

USE PEPPERMINT MARKER ON SCREEN FOR BEST RESULTS!!!

AWESOME HA HA HA!!! You could bet some one would actually go for that ha ha....

 

[BluePilote]

My sentiments exactly.

Same here, but since the game will be ready by 2022. New tech will appear

 

[Printimus]

In the end, I think CIG has the right business mind and mentality to make the game not good, but great for us. Although some features may not be enjoyed by some, I believe the overall experience will build up into something great and very much enjoyable. Getting a game out to the consumers sooner is not always better. Let them take their time and implement features as they see fit as it is their vision we are following.

 

[Zull Reicher]

I just hope that citizen con shows us something worthwhile. Gamescon looked like a rehash of last year's CitizenCon with more crashing. Seems like they have taken 2 steps forward and 3 steps back implementing new tech.

 

[Printimus]

I just hope that citizen con shows us something worthwhile. Gamescon looked like a rehash of last year's CitizenCon with more crashing. Seems like they have taken 2 steps forward and 3 steps back implementing new tech.

You must not have been paying much attention to the demo then.

:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

 

[Blind Owl]

You must not have been paying much attention to the demo then.

:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Haha, no kidding. It was freaking amazing.

 

[Zull Reicher]

 

[maynard]

View attachment 7408

opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one

 

[Stevetank]

opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one

Can I get a second opinion?

 

[Printimus]

Can I get a second opinion?

Dammit man, I'm a doctor not a theorycraftist!

 

[Bruttle]

Yeah! they connect the dots.. and voila you got a panda bear! instead of a lot of dots here and there :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
Not to much work in that :smile:

As loathed as I am to quote the man (I am allergic to apple products), Steve Jobs was still pretty smart and had some intelligent things to say from time to time. For instance:

"Of course it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backward 10 years later.
Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backward. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something — your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all the difference in my life." Steve Jobs, 2005 Stanford Commencement Speech.

Like you were talking about with the panda bear, innovation is nothing more than connecting the dots. As you learn new things, you are essentially placing dots on a piece of paper. In my professional life that's a collection of tools, materials, physical properties, processes, etc. The more dots you accumulate, the more variety you have in both complexity and adaptability when you are trying to create something new or solving a truly original problem.

I have had a lifelong obsession with collecting dots, even before I started looking at them like a giant game of connect-the-dots. If you have collected enough of them, the only limitations are those of your imagination. Fortunately for us, it looks like CIG has no shortage of either dots or imagination. They also have the financial freedom to chase these dots and the time to connect them. It's a fairly unique situation in the game developer world.

Sometimes it's frustrating though. I admit I was frustrated when I first saw the FOIP system. My first impression was that they got sidetracked. I initially thought that this had taken it's toll on the overall game progress and things like this would push back the release date. It got me worrying that things like this would consistently show up and our final version would just keep moving out into the future.

Since then, I have seen it for what it is. Like others in here have pointed out, they have already done a large amount of work towards this while they have been working on other things. They have been collecting dots. While they were making their "panda bear", someone noticed that if they add one more dot here... and another dot here... they could make a elephant using the same dots they already had. They only needed to add a couple more dots.

Now I can see this for what it can bring to the game. I can see the potential for immersion. I can see the head tracking as a very valuable addition to flight mechanics. I can see the potential for communication and other, more subtle possibilities. I can even see FOIP tying into other systems like the job description of the Herald. They still need to generate purpose and reasons for a hacking profession. So basically, this FOIP isn't just a product of connect the dots. It's also a new dot that can be used in the future to connect even more dots in a completely new picture.

 

[Blind Owl]

As loathed as I am to quote the man (I am allergic to apple products), Steve Jobs was still pretty smart and had some intelligent things to say from time to time. For instance:

"Of course it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backward 10 years later.
Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backward. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something — your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all the difference in my life." Steve Jobs, 2005 Stanford Commencement Speech.

Like you were talking about with the panda bear, innovation is nothing more than connecting the dots. As you learn new things, you are essentially placing dots on a piece of paper. In my professional life that's a collection of tools, materials, physical properties, processes, etc. The more dots you accumulate, the more variety you have in both complexity and adaptability when you are trying to create something new or solving a truly original problem.

I have had a lifelong obsession with collecting dots, even before I started looking at them like a giant game of connect-the-dots. If you have collected enough of them, the only limitations are those of your imagination. Fortunately for us, it looks like CIG has no shortage of either dots or imagination. They also have the financial freedom to chase these dots and the time to connect them. It's a fairly unique situation in the game developer world.

Sometimes it's frustrating though. I admit I was frustrated when I first saw the FOIP system. My first impression was that they got sidetracked. I initially thought that this had taken it's toll on the overall game progress and things like this would push back the release date. It got me worrying that things like this would consistently show up and our final version would just keep moving out into the future.

Since then, I have seen it for what it is. Like others in here have pointed out, they have already done a large amount of work towards this while they have been working on other things. They have been collecting dots. While they were making their "panda bear", someone noticed that if they add one more dot here... and another dot here... they could make a elephant using the same dots they already had. They only needed to add a couple more dots.

Now I can see this for what it can bring to the game. I can see the potential for immersion. I can see the head tracking as a very valuable addition to flight mechanics. I can see the potential for communication and other, more subtle possibilities. I can even see FOIP tying into other systems like the job description of the Herald. They still need to generate purpose and reasons for a hacking profession. So basically, this FOIP isn't just a product of connect the dots. It's also a new dot that can be used in the future to connect even more dots in a completely new picture.

Well said my friend. I concur to the nth degree.

 

[Gauna]

Well... I'm all in for photobombing the citizens while making a grimace like this:

 

[Han Burgundy]

Anyone worried about the allocation of resources "wasted" on this to get us 3.0 must have completely missed the fact that this is 3rd party Tech. A completely separate company has been dedicating itself to making this cool so CIG didn't have to. These partnerships are gong to be crucial for Star Citizen as we push forward. It SAVES us a lot of money to pair up with these companies and what they can provide us is cutting edge tech seen nowhere else in exchange for CIG R&D money and exposure. It's a good thing.

/$0.02

 

[Zull Reicher]

First of all, let me state that I love this game and have high hopes for it. If I didn't I would not have invested so heavily. I cannot wait to step onto the bridge of my Idris Frigate and give the command to jump. I also look forward to watching my elite janitorial squad (think Roger Wilco from Space Quest... "To boldly go where no man has swept the floors) eliminating problems and taking out defiant players... Clean up in turret 2...)

Secondly, my disagreement with any above stated opinions should not be viewed as an attack on your beliefs or personal perception of what this game should be. My thoughts should be strictly viewed as my thoughts. Some folks here seem to have problems with those who do not agree with them, and I pity them. Freedom of thought and opinion is a privilege that everyone on this planet does not posses. I revel in my freedom. We posses the freedom to back this game and I highly doubt that most backers would have invested the amount they have without the transparency CR and CIG has so graciously provided. However, transparency does not alleviate them of their responsibility to provide the backers with the promised content. Scope and feature creep is all well and good, but not if it prevents movement forward.

Again, I will restate the fact that I love this game and hope they deliver all that they have promised, or I would not have invested so heavily.

That being said, I really just want something playable at this point. 2.0 was launched in December of 2015.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15106-Star-Citizen-Alpha-20-Available

DEC 11, 2015:
"Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 is here! Today, we are proud to make the next major step in Star Citizen’s evolution available to all players. This major update to Star Citizen is available now in your launcher. With Alpha 2.0, we introduce a wide swath of features, including large world maps, multi-crew ships, seamless first person combat, missions and much more. In short: this is the biggest update to Star Citizen yet!" (from the link above)

It was fun, but that was 1.75 years ago. It only got worse with the pad campers and ship thieves. (see drama thread for references).

I am sorry if I do not believe in the infallibility of CIG and CR. I do not embrace whatever they do simply because they do it.

FOIP is great, but...
unless this will work with VR it is like putting lipstick on a pig. In the next 3 or 4 (hopefully) years when this game finally launches, the cost of VR headsets will (hopefully) have dropped dramatically ( we have seen dramitic $200 price drops on both the oculus - $599 to $399 to and the HTC Vive - $899 to $599) while their functionality increases. I currently own the Oculus Rift and use it in Elite Dangerous. The first time I flew in VR was incredible. Looking left and right while viewing the entire cockpit in a 1:1 ratio was absolutely amazing. It is hard to describe. Asteroids on my 2k monitor looked tiny, but asteroids in VR looked like real honest to goodness asteroids. They were massive pieces of space rocks that really made me feel like I was really flying a space ship (god-rays and pixelation disappear once you are immersed). How much more amazing and immersive will that be in Star Citizen when I can actually walk around my ship? If my ship is under attack I can see myself reaching for virtual bulkheads and rails to grab onto. This is why I see the face tracking to be a minor gimmick.

Also, in regards to VR. I introduced my sister and her husband to VR (they are not gamers and have little interest in games) and they were blown away by the immersion. I currently have a warthog hotas and a t16000m flight stick. Playing the game with dual joysticks and a throttle are much more immersive than the keyboard ever was. Coupled with the VR, immersion is awesome.

With this new control scheme (looking down and using the mouse to control shields, weapons, and opening door and such) they are taking away from the immersion. Hopefully these commands wiil have keybindings so I can bind them to the switches on my warthog throttle or the the g13 lefthand pad.

CIG has to figure a lot of shit out before I will take a sip of that Kool-Aid.

 

[Mich Angel]

As loathed as I am to quote the man (I am allergic to apple products), Steve Jobs was still pretty smart and had some intelligent things to say from time to time. For instance:

"Of course it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backward 10 years later.
Again, you can’t connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backward. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something — your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all the difference in my life." Steve Jobs, 2005 Stanford Commencement Speech.

Like you were talking about with the panda bear, innovation is nothing more than connecting the dots. As you learn new things, you are essentially placing dots on a piece of paper. In my professional life that's a collection of tools, materials, physical properties, processes, etc. The more dots you accumulate, the more variety you have in both complexity and adaptability when you are trying to create something new or solving a truly original problem.

I have had a lifelong obsession with collecting dots, even before I started looking at them like a giant game of connect-the-dots. If you have collected enough of them, the only limitations are those of your imagination. Fortunately for us, it looks like CIG has no shortage of either dots or imagination. They also have the financial freedom to chase these dots and the time to connect them. It's a fairly unique situation in the game developer world.

Sometimes it's frustrating though. I admit I was frustrated when I first saw the FOIP system. My first impression was that they got sidetracked. I initially thought that this had taken it's toll on the overall game progress and things like this would push back the release date. It got me worrying that things like this would consistently show up and our final version would just keep moving out into the future.

Since then, I have seen it for what it is. Like others in here have pointed out, they have already done a large amount of work towards this while they have been working on other things. They have been collecting dots. While they were making their "panda bear", someone noticed that if they add one more dot here... and another dot here... they could make a elephant using the same dots they already had. They only needed to add a couple more dots.

Now I can see this for what it can bring to the game. I can see the potential for immersion. I can see the head tracking as a very valuable addition to flight mechanics. I can see the potential for communication and other, more subtle possibilities. I can even see FOIP tying into other systems like the job description of the Herald. They still need to generate purpose and reasons for a hacking profession. So basically, this FOIP isn't just a product of connect the dots. It's also a new dot that can be used in the future to connect even more dots in a completely new picture.

ooOOHRAAAA! Well spoken exactly spot on :beer: :beers:

Anyone worried about the allocation of resources "wasted" on this to get us 3.0 must have completely missed the fact that this is 3rd party Tech. A completely separate company has been dedicating itself to making this cool so CIG didn't have to. These partnerships are gong to be crucial for Star Citizen as we push forward. It SAVES us a lot of money to pair up with these companies and what they can provide us is cutting edge tech seen nowhere else in exchange for CIG R&D money and exposure. It's a good thing.

/$0.02

High five on that :beers: :beers:

First of all, let me state that I love this game and have high hopes for it. If I didn't I would not have invested so heavily. I cannot wait to step onto the bridge of my Idris Frigate and give the command to jump. I also look forward to watching my elite janitorial squad (think Roger Wilco from Space Quest... "To boldly go where no man has swept the floors) eliminating problems and taking out defiant players... Clean up in turret 2...)

Secondly, my disagreement with any above stated opinions should not be viewed as an attack on your beliefs or personal perception of what this game should be. My thoughts should be strictly viewed as my thoughts. Some folks here seem to have problems with those who do not agree with them, and I pity them. Freedom of thought and opinion is a privilege that everyone on this planet does not posses. I revel in my freedom. We posses the freedom to back this game and I highly doubt that most backers would have invested the amount they have without the transparency CR and CIG has so graciously provided. However, transparency does not alleviate them of their responsibility to provide the backers with the promised content. Scope and feature creep is all well and good, but not if it prevents movement forward.

Again, I will restate the fact that I love this game and hope they deliver all that they have promised, or I would not have invested so heavily.

That being said, I really just want something playable at this point. 2.0 was launched in December of 2015.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15106-Star-Citizen-Alpha-20-Available

DEC 11, 2015:
"Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 is here! Today, we are proud to make the next major step in Star Citizen’s evolution available to all players. This major update to Star Citizen is available now in your launcher. With Alpha 2.0, we introduce a wide swath of features, including large world maps, multi-crew ships, seamless first person combat, missions and much more. In short: this is the biggest update to Star Citizen yet!" (from the link above)

It was fun, but that was 1.75 years ago. It only got worse with the pad campers and ship thieves. (see drama thread for references).

I am sorry if I do not believe in the infallibility of CIG and CR. I do not embrace whatever they do simply because they do it.

FOIP is great, but...
unless this will work with VR it is like putting lipstick on a pig. In the next 3 or 4 (hopefully) years when this game finally launches, the cost of VR headsets will (hopefully) have dropped dramatically ( we have seen dramitic $200 price drops on both the oculus - $599 to $399 to and the HTC Vive - $899 to $599) while their functionality increases. I currently own the Oculus Rift and use it in Elite Dangerous. The first time I flew in VR was incredible. Looking left and right while viewing the entire cockpit in a 1:1 ratio was absolutely amazing. It is hard to describe. Asteroids on my 2k monitor looked tiny, but asteroids in VR looked like real honest to goodness asteroids. They were massive pieces of space rocks that really made me feel like I was really flying a space ship (god-rays and pixelation disappear once you are immersed). How much more amazing and immersive will that be in Star Citizen when I can actually walk around my ship? If my ship is under attack I can see myself reaching for virtual bulkheads and rails to grab onto. This is why I see the face tracking to be a minor gimmick.

Also, in regards to VR. I introduced my sister and her husband to VR (they are not gamers and have little interest in games) and they were blown away by the immersion. I currently have a warthog hotas and a t16000m flight stick. Playing the game with dual joysticks and a throttle are much more immersive than the keyboard ever was. Coupled with the VR, immersion is awesome.

With this new control scheme (looking down and using the mouse to control shields, weapons, and opening door and such) they are taking away from the immersion. Hopefully these commands wiil have keybindings so I can bind them to the switches on my warthog throttle or the the g13 lefthand pad.

CIG has to figure a lot of shit out before I will take a sip of that Kool-Aid.

I agree all thoughts and input is important as long as they are presented in a constructive manner both negative and positive we are different individuals we have different value on things you don't have to like it but that need to be respected IMO.

And for the VR to be able to track your eyes and face movement well then you have to have a camera inside your VR goggles and one on the outside that can ignore the fact that you are wearing a big goggles tracking your head... ??

That would be over doing it think it'll be as it is now either you go for VR goggles and be good with that or you use the cam with and FOIP head tracking, personally I do not like VR I do like the immersion it give but not what I loses from peripheral view of my room as if I need to take a drink eat a snack I need to keep removing the VR gear and I know that would eventually stay off and collecting dust some where.

Head tracking for me is giving ME same immersion and if that was connected to a FOIP and VOIP inside a game oh! WOW give it to me..
So you see there are as you so well put it different thoughts and likes about things and how and what works best.
For you VR have blown your mind away for me it was overpriced piece of crap in current state and function, shore maybe it will evolve and get a lot better in the future I did like how VR really put you inside a game that is amazing but then the wow stopped for me and things started to be frustrating and annoying that when I chat I had to lift the goggles doing that every 2-5-10 minute to see the keyboard or drinking a sip of coffee eventually the VR head goggles stayed off. VR in current state and function IMO is not made for players who are doing 5-10 hour gaming session VR function best work with showcasing stuff in short periods or shorter gaming sessions but this is how I see VR my opinion.

So for me the new tech in SC with VOIP and FOIP is great welcomed and needed and I have not yet wasted money on a VR set so I don't have to go on the defensive and protecting my choices to buy IMO a overpriced product as of today have very short usability..
But shore if VR at some time in the future get to a normal price where it should be and a lot better and the usefulness of it get expanded I can see my self buying one too, for it is a pretty f*king cool hardware.

:smile: :beer: :beers:

 

[Bruttle]

That would be over doing it think it'll be as it is now either you go for VR goggles and be good with that or you use the cam with and FOIP head tracking, personally I do not like VR I do like the immersion it give but not what I loses from peripheral view of my room as if I need to take a drink eat a snack I need to keep removing the VR gear and I know that would eventually stay off and collecting dust some where.

I'm the same way. I picked up a Rift the second they became available. It was something I dreamed about since I was a kid. When it finally arrived, it was everything I ever wanted. Well, at least for the first entry into VR. It works and it's amazing.

The problem is, I'm not a kid any more. I have a family and responsibilities. I can't afford to (or want to) shut the world out and disappear into my own little world. I game with my wife and daughter. That's our family activity and we are fortunate enough to be able to do that almost every night. So when I game, it's not just gaming. We are watching shows, listening to music, or having conversations. The second I put on the rift, I am no longer there participating as a family member.

So yes, I am very happy I purchased it and have logged a stupid amount of hours in VR since it first arrived. However, it's usually after my girls have gone to bed or when they are off doing something else. It is not an every day thing and I wouldn't have it any other way. So the face tracking and positional sound will actually be far more practical and see far more use than anything VR will offer.