Guns. Good or Bad?

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Last I looked... This was "Test Squadron" home of the Free and BRAVE. Not the home of group think... I love you NaffNaff and value your opinion, but please do not try to shut us down just because we don't agree. That is what tyrants do.

Love you too man our conversations are always a blast.

I'm definitely not trying to alter your opinion and again, I'm not trying to ban your ownership of a gun - that is unless you are planning on going on a shooting spree in a classroom or at a concert. We came to that conclusion last time the thread was active America has Guns and thats the way it'll stay and I fully accept that, it's what I learned from the Nevada shooting.

But unlike the Nevada incident, this time I am still talking because last time we stopped, we agreed to disagree... and another atrocity happened. So lets not stop talking about it. This discussion has been viewed as an argument by some, well it's not supposed to be - its supposed to find that way forward... someone somewhere out there has the perfect comprise that while not eradicating incidents like this totally will drastically reduce them while letting you own your pistol.

We just need to be that someone who comes up with the perfect compromise and get that idea in the right mind at the right time.

I think I have something with "Well-Regulated Militia". A felon register is a good start to keep guns out of the hands of those who would missuse them, but i'd like to believe a "well regulated Militia" would need to have a file of what weapon is where with how many rounds so if they are called to action the officers of the Militia have a reliable reference for what civilian forces they have where, which could also be used to identify sudden bulk ammo purchases or stockpiling which could be used for an atrocity... and it could be a Publicly run register, separate from the Government as the Militia is supposed to be, like the BBC is a totally separate entity form the Government in the UK despite the TV license being, basically, a legally enforced tax.

Please, honestly, what do you think of it? It's already part of the Amendment. You wouldn't have to change anything, you'd just have to make the Militia "well regulated" as the amendment requests.

 

[sum1]

Interesting. So if 100 people were shot in the spine and paralyzed permanently from the waist down by a highly skilled rouge shooter, that would not be considered a mass shooting by the definition in America? I was not aware of this...

we are now dealing with hypotheticals. The point I was trying to make was "mass shooting" is an ill-defined term, as such for the sake of argument we need to define the term. as 100 wounded people are not anywhere on that list let us use that list to define a "mass shooting" so we are debt it.

I have stated multiple times in the last four pages of this thread that I accept America is going to keep its guns and that banning them is pointless. Restricting access to those unsuitable is the theme I have been going for. Whether this is through Registered lists of owners and what they have to detect stockpiling or passing tests to get a regulated licence as the phrase "Well Regulated Militia" suggests would be applicable is not for me to say. I live 3000 miles away but still I see the effect on a regular basis.

the point still remains that guns are a fraction of the death toll worldwide, and in America, is even if a full ban is off the table the other subjects are still relevant, you say you are against death, any decent person would say the same, the question then becomes, and the point I am trying to make how do you reduce gun violence without taking away law-abiding members rights? how do you reduce terrorist attacks without banning people groups associated with that terrorist actions? How do you reduce the number of people killed by drunk drivers without taking away the car of someone that does not drive drunk? That is the point I am making, I am a law-abiding member of society that is afraid, rather terrified, of my rights to self-preservation and self-defense being taken away, which I have learned from history GREATLY increases the chances of a tyrannical government that will kill so much more than the current issue at hand. That is the issue here I see the greater, rather greatest threat of people in power abusing their power, and people with weapons abusing their weapons if the law-abiding are limited in their right to defend themselves.

I see your stats, but I also see piles of dead kids. And I see them over and over again. What are we going to do? Yeah, alright, give the teachers guns, I don't care if "In Gun We Trust", try it and if it works great it works and if it doesn't work because all the teachers go Postal scrap it and try something else like an ownership register or Insta-Fog makers in classrooms. Damn it make Insta-Fog as common in classrooms as smoke detectors. Just DO something.

I agree we need to do something, from the data I have looked at, arming the staff, or getting armed guards are the best way to fix this issue. (and over 91% of our police force in America agree) "More than 91 percent of respondents support the concealed carry of firearms by civilians who have not been convicted of a felony and/or not been deemed psychologically/medically incapable." https://www.policeone.com/gun-legislation-law-enforcement/articles/6186552-Police-Gun-Control-Survey-Are-legally-armed-citizens-the-best-solution-to-gun-violence/ So YES we NEED to do something and I think the best thing to do is what the police are saying.

I appreciate your sarcasm. So how do you feel being on the drivers licensing list? A "Well-Regulated" Militia would at least have a list of members and what ordinance they have, would it not?

Driving on Government-owned roads is not a right, it is a privilege as such I have signed a agreement with the government where they put me on a list, and I get to drive. I would prefer not to deal with government bureaucrats but this is the price I pay. I am all for a "well-Regulated" Militia but that is separate from "The right of the people to keep and bear arms." A militia would include training and the first response to a crisis. It, in my mind, would function like a volunteer fire department to some extent. and I am all for that, but that is a different issue.

 

[sum1]

Last I looked... This was "Test Squadron" home of the Free and BRAVE.

Test Squadron "Home of the Drunk and Reckless"

 

[ColdDog]

We just need to be that someone who comes up with the perfect compromise and gets that idea in the right mind at the right time.

I agree 100% but people are not robots... the more educated they get, the more damage they can cause to society... if the education does not steer them clear of that path. Kids today have so many more resources available to them. When I was a kid we didn't have you tube and call of duty... we had bicycles and cars to work on. The equation has changed... people take this to extremes just like the swatting Motoya talked about. This is a different world, and I fear it is going to get worse before it gets better. Taking away animate objects does not solve the problem and never will... at the best it only delays the inevitable. People are not going to stop being people... period, no matter how much to take away from them. This shooter pulled a fire alarm because he noticed a vulnerability... are you go to ban fire fire alarms?

These are the questions people much smarter than us are trying to tackle... but you cannot leave the human element out of the equation. I see it in computer security all the time.

 

[ColdDog]

This why America is different from the rest of the world. Some like me, lived in poverty his whole life can make a difference... not only education, not family name, not a sense of entitlement. America still pulls from its poor to make its best.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkbMWchGab4


This is where we come from... the poor, oppressed, disadvantaged. That is America.

 

[sum1]

This why America is different from the rest of the world. Some like me, lived in poverty his whole life can make a difference... not only education, not family name, not a sense of entitlement. America still pulls from its poor to make its best.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkbMWchGab4


This is where we come from... the poor, oppressed, disadvantaged. That is America.

LOVE THIS the idea that you make you. you are what you make yourself not the victimhood game that is growing way to fast in this world, you are what you make, ya the world is hard, ya you get put on your ass, GET THE FUCK UP, you need a hand I will help you up. but don't sit their cryine on the ground, ya someone may have knocked you down, but you are the only one that can choose to stay down.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

I like guns.

 

[ColdDog]

@sum1 I agree with you too... even through it is hard time there is always hope. Yes, these kids were a tragedy, and i wish it never happened. But Americas enemies - ideologically or politically, seem to exploit this situation to their own advantage. But I always, I question "the ambulance chasers"... they are opportunists who try to devalue our authority in the world. They look right in the short term but their motives affect us in the long term. I am not saying the question is legitimate, because it is... I question the motives.

I am not saying @NaffNaffBobFace is wrong... I am just saying that the world is much more complex than it appears.

 

[Vavrik]

This why America is different from the rest of the world. Some like me, lived in poverty his whole life can make a difference... not only education, not family name, not a sense of entitlement. America still pulls from its poor to make its best.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkbMWchGab4


This is where we come from... the poor, oppressed, disadvantaged. That is America.

So, don't take this wrong, it's a nice sentiment and I love it, but this is not what makes America different from the rest of the world. You could translate the words of the video into German, Spanish, French, Chinese, Arabic, Swahili...ancient Greek. It wouldn't matter, it would resonate the same way. Why? Because it is talking about a human truth that has been represented in many cultures and many many languages.

 

[ColdDog]

Because it is talking about a human truth that has been represented in many cultures and many many languages.

Yes, but only a few countries live by it. Funny thing about truth, it cannot be disclaimed fundamentally. Like the bible. "All men are created equal" just their circumstances in life are different.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

If I want to be serious about this, it would be a very very long and objective "discussion". This is such a paramount issue that I would have to spend a good week researching and organizing notes before I even began to tell you my true position on the matter. It's serious. I love the passion you all have for the topic though, even if you aren't American, or live in America. I get it. Ultimately Guns are bad. They just are, they were designed to kill, disable and suppress human and non human life. I just have a different view on them. I hope you don't think all pro-gun Americans are religious zealots who live in their trailers and drink natty ice all day. Natty ice is getting expensive and renting a trailer has become ridiculous. We all just live in our gas guzzling vehicles these days.

 

[ColdDog]

If I want to be serious about this, it would be a very very long and objective "discussion". This is such a paramount issue that I would have to spend a good week researching and organizing notes before I even began to tell you my true position on the matter. It's serious. I love the passion you all have for the topic though, even if you aren't American, or live in America. I get it. Ultimately Guns are bad. They just are, they were designed to kill, disable and suppress human and non human life. I just have a different view on them. I hope you don't think all pro-gun Americans are religious zealots who live in their trailers and drink natty ice all day. Natty ice is getting expensive and renting a trailer has become ridiculous. We all just live in our gas guzzling vehicles these days.

Jolly - no offense but I am sure my IQ and world knowledge lays your experiences to dust... which extends from the trailer I was raised in (really - it is true). I honestly take offense to your ideas. That said, you have a forum to show your ignorance and understanding of this topic... and I will not deny that... even if I could. You are the trailer trash... you are ignorant, you are the reason people fight today. Let it go.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

Jolly - no offense but I am sure my IQ and world knowledge lays your experiences to dust... which extends from the trailer I was raised in (really - it is true). I honestly take offense to your ideas. That said, you have a forum to show your ignorance and understanding of this topic... and I will not deny that... even if I could. You are the trailer trash... you are ignorant, you are the reason people fight today. Let it go.

Whoa there buddy. If we want to get into a dick measuring contest I can throw out my dead parents and my trailer life as well. I was agreeing with you you fuck.

 

[ColdDog]

It never ceases to amaze me that people want to put down poor people all the time... especially those who want a communist type government.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

What the hell are you on about.

 

[Vavrik]

I think... he didn't take your sarcasm as sarcasm. Or something like that.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

I guess not. He called me a commie too, thats what hurts man. :'(

 

[ColdDog]

Whoa there buddy. If we want to get into a dick measuring contest I can throw out my dead parents and my trailer life as well. I was agreeing with you you fuck.

None taken... I'll chalk it up as a misunderstanding

I just have a different view on them. I hope you don't think all pro-gun Americans are religious zealots who live in their trailers and drink natty ice all day. Natty ice is getting expensive and renting a trailer has become ridiculous. We all just live in our gas guzzling vehicles these days.

With these people who do not live in the USA this is all foreign to them. They do not understand why things are not government controlled X... they'd prefer to give their sovereignty to Hitler.

I fought this battle with net neutrality... now gun control.

Honestly, I think the world has lost it.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

It's all good man. I don't let things really bother me when it comes to TESTies, I know we all have a love hate relationship anyways. We all know where we stand and It's good to let it out every once in a while. This really does mean a lot to me and many Americans and I guess the rest of the world apparently, it's why it's a passionate subject. I don't plan on ever writing in here again though, it gets me too worked up for no reason. Like I said, I do love the passion behind every argument though. Keep standing for something, It's respectable. Seriously.










Cheers.

 

[Vavrik]

With these people who do not live in the USA this is all foreign to them. They do not understand why things are not government controlled X... they'd prefer to give their sovereignty to Hitler.

They simply do not understand why Americans seem unwilling and unable to take the steps necessary to protect their children, and instead argue and fume amongst themselves like a bunch of idiots whenever the subject comes up - which lately has been every few days.

By the way. You invoked Hitler, and therefore by time honored Internet tradition, you lose any debate, argument or discussion that was ongoing at the time, namely this, and I suppose that makes @NaffNaffBobFace the winner. Unfortunately, because this really is a topic that needs to be aired, by Americans, right now.