Is Kingdom Come Deliverance racist?
- Thread starter Montoya
- Start date
ThomSirveaux
Space Marshal
Bigcracker
Space Marshal
A lot of good games are offensive in some way or another. In Skyrim you spend a lot of time raiding the tombs of the dead. That's spitting on the dead and slapping the ancestors of others in the face... not to mention the excessive lollygagging.
I'm not sure that the absense of black people in the middle of Europe in the 14th century is a bad thing at all.
If anyone wants to make a racist game, I vote making a British colonization game :D
I'm not sure that the absense of black people in the middle of Europe in the 14th century is a bad thing at all.
If anyone wants to make a racist game, I vote making a British colonization game :D
ThomSirveaux
Space Marshal
Men's Polo shirts should have 3 holes/buttons
Women's polo shirts should have 4.
But it should be a bus that seats 20 people. This is for a church! NEXT!
"Have you ever played a game that offended you?"
Hmmmm.... I think I was desensitized early.
Of the most notable that were supposed:
I played Carmageddon in the late 90's before the Zombie Blood change. I was told by the media I should be offended. I was told by the religious leaders I should be horrified. I was told my my Mum... well its not the kind of game you let your mum know you were playing...
I just thought it was damned funny and a computer game. Beat tracks racing laps, beat tracks killing the other racing cars (my favored method) and once, just once, beat a track by killing ALL, of the pedestrians using Stella Stunnas car the Electric Blue, it had the Pedestrian Electro-*Barsteward Ray equipped as standard which didn't time out as it did you got the Ray as a powerup. Even with the best weapon in the game it took ages and I just didn't get a sense of accomplishment from it because, as it turns out, genocide is not as enjoyable as ramming the other cars in the race to tiny burning bits. Also the Electric Blue had what looked like a vague approximation of a womans *genitals on it which while amusing to see initially when you realise, it becomes rather tiresome after 45 minutes.
I played the Original Grand Theft Auto and was told i'd turn into a deviant by society. Years later, quite obviously not a deviant, I played through the whole of GTA3 and was told I should examine my inner self because yes, I ran over a hooker to get the cash back that my character had just paid her. Only did it once, and didn't feel a sense of accomplishment because really how hard is it to make $$$ in GTA3? Even less hard with the All Weapons and the Lots Of Money cheat. And the Insta-Tank. It was just one of those things you could do, but didn't because it wasn't necessary to get along in the game.
After that I couldn't tell you which games were supposed to offend me. I heared a lot of noise about Bully that went away when they changed the damn name of the game and saw a lot of controversy over Manhunt but didn't feel the instant urge to run out and play a copy. There are a lot of Rockstar games here. Why was no none offended by Rockstar Presents Table Tennis?
House Of The Dead Overkill was probbably the last "offensive" game I played through, and I thought it was funny as funk*
So either I was desensitized early, or maybe, just maybe, I knew they were computer games which are no more an offensive medium than novels are.
A Clockwork Orange? Yeah, there is a bit in the book that was rather offensive.
Trainspotting? Perhaps maybe one or two bits.
IT? There is definitely a bit in the book that you can find offensive.
If you have read the above books, you'll know the parts I mean - the bits they didn't include in the films or TV series - the bits the couldn't include.
*Offensive language removed for the easily offended.
Hmmmm.... I think I was desensitized early.
Of the most notable that were supposed:
I played Carmageddon in the late 90's before the Zombie Blood change. I was told by the media I should be offended. I was told by the religious leaders I should be horrified. I was told my my Mum... well its not the kind of game you let your mum know you were playing...
I just thought it was damned funny and a computer game. Beat tracks racing laps, beat tracks killing the other racing cars (my favored method) and once, just once, beat a track by killing ALL, of the pedestrians using Stella Stunnas car the Electric Blue, it had the Pedestrian Electro-*Barsteward Ray equipped as standard which didn't time out as it did you got the Ray as a powerup. Even with the best weapon in the game it took ages and I just didn't get a sense of accomplishment from it because, as it turns out, genocide is not as enjoyable as ramming the other cars in the race to tiny burning bits. Also the Electric Blue had what looked like a vague approximation of a womans *genitals on it which while amusing to see initially when you realise, it becomes rather tiresome after 45 minutes.
I played the Original Grand Theft Auto and was told i'd turn into a deviant by society. Years later, quite obviously not a deviant, I played through the whole of GTA3 and was told I should examine my inner self because yes, I ran over a hooker to get the cash back that my character had just paid her. Only did it once, and didn't feel a sense of accomplishment because really how hard is it to make $$$ in GTA3? Even less hard with the All Weapons and the Lots Of Money cheat. And the Insta-Tank. It was just one of those things you could do, but didn't because it wasn't necessary to get along in the game.
After that I couldn't tell you which games were supposed to offend me. I heared a lot of noise about Bully that went away when they changed the damn name of the game and saw a lot of controversy over Manhunt but didn't feel the instant urge to run out and play a copy. There are a lot of Rockstar games here. Why was no none offended by Rockstar Presents Table Tennis?
House Of The Dead Overkill was probbably the last "offensive" game I played through, and I thought it was funny as funk*
So either I was desensitized early, or maybe, just maybe, I knew they were computer games which are no more an offensive medium than novels are.
A Clockwork Orange? Yeah, there is a bit in the book that was rather offensive.
Trainspotting? Perhaps maybe one or two bits.
IT? There is definitely a bit in the book that you can find offensive.
If you have read the above books, you'll know the parts I mean - the bits they didn't include in the films or TV series - the bits the couldn't include.
*Offensive language removed for the easily offended.
I find your censorship of your own post highly offensive and demeaning for people intelligent enough to hold an intellectual discussion about the topic of race with the use of swear words.
Also your post lacks beer. Beer for all!
There's a lot of low-budget indie games that i find offensive for various reasons, but i don't think i can recall any major games that we're actually proper offensive. Sure, there's some games with parts that are a little... borderline, but never an entire game.
That's not to say that there aren't offensive games, however. Several games go out of their way to be as over-the-top as possible. Still, even if i did find a game that was seriously offensive to me personally, all i'd do is stop playing it. Maybe leave a negative review, if it was really bad.
That's not to say that there aren't offensive games, however. Several games go out of their way to be as over-the-top as possible. Still, even if i did find a game that was seriously offensive to me personally, all i'd do is stop playing it. Maybe leave a negative review, if it was really bad.
makute
Space Marshal
There must be a running idiocy contest in gaming journalism that we are unaware of.
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If they had added dark-skinned people would it dark washing?
Obviously a slow week for video material if you had to get your info from VICE Magazine.
(I guess this is good news for us SC fans)
So, you spend your time reading VICE Magazine.......That explains a lot. Ha. Ha.
Have I been offended by any game?
YES......BattleCruiser 3000QAD
(a DS production)
[still waiting for the promised patch to make it work]
(I guess this is good news for us SC fans)
So, you spend your time reading VICE Magazine.......That explains a lot. Ha. Ha.
Have I been offended by any game?
YES......BattleCruiser 3000QAD
(a DS production)
[still waiting for the promised patch to make it work]
I can kind of understand the race issue, but I think that Kingdom Come follows the footsteps of the Black Panther movie in failing to recognize the Medevil LGBT community. Also, I don't think I saw a single piece of Kale that entire game. The availability of Bows was scary as well. C'mon War Horse, how about a little Bow Control?
Yes, you have to be careful of society its always turning people into deviants.
Notice Owl hasn't dropped by yet. This is because there has not been enough beer.
Let us know how diverse the combat is.
Love the video, great work! Especially the bit about mario lol...
This whole "eh look, we don't get enough clicks, lets write about something that it's racist" thing gets me really annoyed with today's media.
At the moment I'm annoyed with the world in general, so what follows won't be pretty, or comprehensible, but I had to write it out of my system. Sorry! (maybe I should sign up for the "depression and gaming" thread...)
Anyways, I hope you understand or find something interesting in it.
Seen some posts above mention some games, and I gotta say, my best Christmas ever was when my relatives sent me a genuine copy of Populous 5, and my father got me a bootleg copy of Carmageddon 2. Guess which one I played till 2 AM as a child lol
GTA and the like never offended me, my father knew I wouldn't go on a rampage the next day at school, and my mother never cared to see what I played, so games were never an issue.
Movies on the other hand... yeah, that was problematic lol Let's just say that my parents weren't happy when they found out I watched some very 18+ action movie at my friends place on VHS. Even my friend's dad was very pissed off, and that guy scared me lol
Have I been offended by a game?
Hell yes, but not one you would expect.
Some big budget titles were offensively bad ( like Watch Dogs), but those are nothing new, and I don't really count those.
The only game I was really offended by:
Paper's Please
The most blatantly oversimplified, ignorant, "westerner" and outright offensive representation of the daily suffering of millions of people having to live on the East Side of the Iron Curtain.
tldr.:
All in all, what is really offending about it is that I payed for that crap, wanted to love it sooo much, was told that I have to love it cos it's smart and indie so it's the best ever... but it Fails in every respect! Both in it's message, and it's gameplay. Shallow, ignorant, offensively oversimplified with little to no meaningful gameplay. It's basically a cookie clicker. There is nothing to love or praise about it.
This whole "eh look, we don't get enough clicks, lets write about something that it's racist" thing gets me really annoyed with today's media.
At the moment I'm annoyed with the world in general, so what follows won't be pretty, or comprehensible, but I had to write it out of my system. Sorry! (maybe I should sign up for the "depression and gaming" thread...)
Anyways, I hope you understand or find something interesting in it.
I'm being told by Twitter and all websites, for weeks now, that I'm a huge effing racist, because I didn't watch Black Panther... Really? It's just another superhero movie... Is it a good movie and good for equality too? Great! Make more of it!
Apparently, you need that kinda thing over there.
But please, for the love of god, can I look at something else on the internet, like check out a report on a fucking car show without that being shoved into my face for once?
I'm sorry and all, but I Just Don't Care about that movie! Green, Brown, Pink, Orange, Black, Mauve, it doesn't matter! It shouldn't matter, if you are so "not racist"!
I guess this is an American guilt thing?? What I see, thanks to the media flooding with it, is that you latch onto anything that has some color or a female lead in it, pat yourselves on the back for as long and as loudly as you can, and call out everyone else who doesn't agree with you.
Now see, I don't have a need to do that every time a movie or game comes out. People are people, and that's it.
I just can't be bothered to watch another superhero movie, I'm sooooo tired of those. I'd rather watch American Gangster six times in a row, thanks! (cos it's a good movie, not cos it's bad and I wanna suffer lol)
every superhero movie ever: An oppressed side Color A, rises above the oppressor, Color B, and saves the world in the process. Every. Single. Time.
Whether the color difference is in skin or clothing or armor or the color of their pee, it's still the same old shit! It's a damn superhero movie, exactly the same as the one before it and the one after it. There is Nothing there for me personally, so I won't watch it.
(also the ticket money goes into the pockets of white ppl who backed it and worked on it, so it would be racist of me to watch it)
If a movie or game is good, then it's good, whatever the sex or color of ppl in it. If it's bad, it's bad.
Case in point, before typing this I just watched the Fullmetal Alchemyst movie that just came out on Netflix. This one is bad.
I really liked the fully Japanese cast, although from the anime I imagined them as mostly white ppl, with the setting being reminiscent of Nazi Germany/Europe. This didn't add or take away from it though.
They did an awesome work making everyone look perfectly recognizable even to my ignorant racist European eyes, and the wardrobe department did an amazing job as well. CG for the first hour or so was superb. There were some 1 to 1 recreations of scenes from the anime that looked cool as hell, and the scene with the chimera made me proper sad, just like the anime did. Apart from these high points, don't bother watching, it's pretty, and okay for the first half hour, but after that it's a total mess. The story get's all twisted, tons of important characters and storylines are entirely missing, and all what was left is cut to shreds so it fit's into 2 hours. Even the CG goes to hell halfway through, like they ran out of budget...
It's like they couldn't decide on making a different movie for those who have seen the anime, or making one for newcommers.
Oh, and there is no English audio, only descriptive talking over the original Japanese.
Apparently, you need that kinda thing over there.
But please, for the love of god, can I look at something else on the internet, like check out a report on a fucking car show without that being shoved into my face for once?
I'm sorry and all, but I Just Don't Care about that movie! Green, Brown, Pink, Orange, Black, Mauve, it doesn't matter! It shouldn't matter, if you are so "not racist"!
I guess this is an American guilt thing?? What I see, thanks to the media flooding with it, is that you latch onto anything that has some color or a female lead in it, pat yourselves on the back for as long and as loudly as you can, and call out everyone else who doesn't agree with you.
Now see, I don't have a need to do that every time a movie or game comes out. People are people, and that's it.
I just can't be bothered to watch another superhero movie, I'm sooooo tired of those. I'd rather watch American Gangster six times in a row, thanks! (cos it's a good movie, not cos it's bad and I wanna suffer lol)
every superhero movie ever: An oppressed side Color A, rises above the oppressor, Color B, and saves the world in the process. Every. Single. Time.
Whether the color difference is in skin or clothing or armor or the color of their pee, it's still the same old shit! It's a damn superhero movie, exactly the same as the one before it and the one after it. There is Nothing there for me personally, so I won't watch it.
(also the ticket money goes into the pockets of white ppl who backed it and worked on it, so it would be racist of me to watch it)
If a movie or game is good, then it's good, whatever the sex or color of ppl in it. If it's bad, it's bad.
Case in point, before typing this I just watched the Fullmetal Alchemyst movie that just came out on Netflix. This one is bad.
I really liked the fully Japanese cast, although from the anime I imagined them as mostly white ppl, with the setting being reminiscent of Nazi Germany/Europe. This didn't add or take away from it though.
They did an awesome work making everyone look perfectly recognizable even to my ignorant racist European eyes, and the wardrobe department did an amazing job as well. CG for the first hour or so was superb. There were some 1 to 1 recreations of scenes from the anime that looked cool as hell, and the scene with the chimera made me proper sad, just like the anime did. Apart from these high points, don't bother watching, it's pretty, and okay for the first half hour, but after that it's a total mess. The story get's all twisted, tons of important characters and storylines are entirely missing, and all what was left is cut to shreds so it fit's into 2 hours. Even the CG goes to hell halfway through, like they ran out of budget...
It's like they couldn't decide on making a different movie for those who have seen the anime, or making one for newcommers.
Oh, and there is no English audio, only descriptive talking over the original Japanese.
Seen some posts above mention some games, and I gotta say, my best Christmas ever was when my relatives sent me a genuine copy of Populous 5, and my father got me a bootleg copy of Carmageddon 2. Guess which one I played till 2 AM as a child lol
GTA and the like never offended me, my father knew I wouldn't go on a rampage the next day at school, and my mother never cared to see what I played, so games were never an issue.
Movies on the other hand... yeah, that was problematic lol Let's just say that my parents weren't happy when they found out I watched some very 18+ action movie at my friends place on VHS. Even my friend's dad was very pissed off, and that guy scared me lol
Have I been offended by a game?
Hell yes, but not one you would expect.
Some big budget titles were offensively bad ( like Watch Dogs), but those are nothing new, and I don't really count those.
The only game I was really offended by:
Paper's Please
The most blatantly oversimplified, ignorant, "westerner" and outright offensive representation of the daily suffering of millions of people having to live on the East Side of the Iron Curtain.
What offended me first is that the eastern side, along with the player, was represented as stupid lying spying sonnova bitches with zero morality, no spine to speak of, and no chance at outsmarting the system. If you acted other than told by the system, it was Game Over. Always.
There is no way to be smart, or realistic about it. Took one bribe? you're dead in prison. Moved up to better apartment because you were good at your job? Poof, sent to the mines, family executed.
While it gets some things right, and most of the "game over" scenarios are true, that is not how it worked. It is missing the "subtle" difference between an outsiders view and someone who knows what it was like. Or at least researched it for more then 2 minutes.
Imagine making a game about life in the USA by basing it on a single viewing of FOX NEWS.
From that, I would see that every single person in the USA is a moron, elected a muppet who most likely commited high treason; think that the moon landing is a conspiracy and the Earth is flat; want nothing but to turn every 7/11 into a full on gun shop, and to have a special line of Disney themed '45 automatic handguns for Christmas so your child can have fun at school next year.
This is obviously not true, but you get my point.
This is the case with this game. It paints a very one-sided picture of a much more complicated situation, and misses the point entirely. It has ZERO DEPTH. As someone who was born and raised under these circumstances, I should fucking know...
(hell, we are in the process of going back to those days with the "elections" coming up, but that's another story)
In reality, if you wanted to progress in life, or even just survive, you not only could, but had to be smart about it!
Your daily life was either slaving away, doing little "smart" things like "acquiring" stuff from your workplace to stay at the level you were, and hoping for the best. And 99% of the time, nothing significantly bad would happen. At least they got this part kinda right.
Or you spent the day trying to outsmart the system to get ahead, which Everyone did! Obviously, this was risky, but everyone had different methods, and it worked out for a lot of people. Of course, it didn't work out so well for a lot of others...
This out-thinking of the system is the whole point of life on the eastern side, something that the game blatantly punishes and makes impossible on every turn.
In the real world, you had to take the bribes, but not too much. Never show wealth, but don't be afraid to show the money when you have enough to rise above your level and pay off those who could oppose you. Get to know the right people, decent people with morality and a fucking spine, cos they probably have the means and would protect you from the oppressors.
Be good to others around you, help them out, and in turn they would help your out, like save you from your 3/3 agent neighbor, which would often mean the difference between life, or a life breaking stone in a slave camp in north eastern Russia.
Take pride in what you do and don't be afraid to show it so you get noticed instead of others, just don't boast about being smarter then anyone around you, and it could lead to significant advantages in the long run. Know the boundaries so you can step over them, without tripping. Know how to navigate around the system... These are the bare essentials to survival under that regime. You could live on a very comfortable "edge" and have a much better life, as many many people did.
NOTHING of the above is present in this "thoughtful, inspiring indie game".
The game goes to no ends to tell you how you have no chance to win, which is stupid, but then at least it should have the decency to add some gameplay into it!
Show the Black Car driving by or stopping at your house, depending on your choices, in the middle of night when you sit scared at window, while your family tries to sleep in the freezing cold. Just one idea for many small touches that could have made the difference between pure ignorance and actual "commentary" on that system.
(explanation: Black Car's were for the Secret Police or high ranking official, or very rarely some special individuals, no one else was allowed one. So if a black car stopped in front of the house, someone living there was getting taken away for interrogation at best, and later sent to the prison or simply executed. Lots of ppl taken away like this were never heard of again)
Anyways, the thing that upset me most was the outpouring of love and overwhelmingly positive reviews for such a simple and blatantly "racist" game. Cos it was an indie game so it must be amazing. Ooooh look, it's not all happy jumpy, or VR shooty , this must be something really really special! Let's praise the shit out of it, even though we have absolutely no fucking clue what it's about. Especially from "top gaming sites" like IGN, Kotaku, and Gamespot, whose editors have only ever lived in California, and are too "special" and "individual" with "forward thinking" views to have ever seen, or even thought about the true meaning of being oppressed, hunger, cold, or fear. Or to have ever thought about anyone else but themselves really...
It's fucking disgusting.
(no offense decent Californian ppl)
There is no way to be smart, or realistic about it. Took one bribe? you're dead in prison. Moved up to better apartment because you were good at your job? Poof, sent to the mines, family executed.
While it gets some things right, and most of the "game over" scenarios are true, that is not how it worked. It is missing the "subtle" difference between an outsiders view and someone who knows what it was like. Or at least researched it for more then 2 minutes.
Imagine making a game about life in the USA by basing it on a single viewing of FOX NEWS.
From that, I would see that every single person in the USA is a moron, elected a muppet who most likely commited high treason; think that the moon landing is a conspiracy and the Earth is flat; want nothing but to turn every 7/11 into a full on gun shop, and to have a special line of Disney themed '45 automatic handguns for Christmas so your child can have fun at school next year.
This is obviously not true, but you get my point.
This is the case with this game. It paints a very one-sided picture of a much more complicated situation, and misses the point entirely. It has ZERO DEPTH. As someone who was born and raised under these circumstances, I should fucking know...
(hell, we are in the process of going back to those days with the "elections" coming up, but that's another story)
In reality, if you wanted to progress in life, or even just survive, you not only could, but had to be smart about it!
Your daily life was either slaving away, doing little "smart" things like "acquiring" stuff from your workplace to stay at the level you were, and hoping for the best. And 99% of the time, nothing significantly bad would happen. At least they got this part kinda right.
Or you spent the day trying to outsmart the system to get ahead, which Everyone did! Obviously, this was risky, but everyone had different methods, and it worked out for a lot of people. Of course, it didn't work out so well for a lot of others...
This out-thinking of the system is the whole point of life on the eastern side, something that the game blatantly punishes and makes impossible on every turn.
In the real world, you had to take the bribes, but not too much. Never show wealth, but don't be afraid to show the money when you have enough to rise above your level and pay off those who could oppose you. Get to know the right people, decent people with morality and a fucking spine, cos they probably have the means and would protect you from the oppressors.
Be good to others around you, help them out, and in turn they would help your out, like save you from your 3/3 agent neighbor, which would often mean the difference between life, or a life breaking stone in a slave camp in north eastern Russia.
Take pride in what you do and don't be afraid to show it so you get noticed instead of others, just don't boast about being smarter then anyone around you, and it could lead to significant advantages in the long run. Know the boundaries so you can step over them, without tripping. Know how to navigate around the system... These are the bare essentials to survival under that regime. You could live on a very comfortable "edge" and have a much better life, as many many people did.
NOTHING of the above is present in this "thoughtful, inspiring indie game".
The game goes to no ends to tell you how you have no chance to win, which is stupid, but then at least it should have the decency to add some gameplay into it!
Show the Black Car driving by or stopping at your house, depending on your choices, in the middle of night when you sit scared at window, while your family tries to sleep in the freezing cold. Just one idea for many small touches that could have made the difference between pure ignorance and actual "commentary" on that system.
(explanation: Black Car's were for the Secret Police or high ranking official, or very rarely some special individuals, no one else was allowed one. So if a black car stopped in front of the house, someone living there was getting taken away for interrogation at best, and later sent to the prison or simply executed. Lots of ppl taken away like this were never heard of again)
Anyways, the thing that upset me most was the outpouring of love and overwhelmingly positive reviews for such a simple and blatantly "racist" game. Cos it was an indie game so it must be amazing. Ooooh look, it's not all happy jumpy, or VR shooty , this must be something really really special! Let's praise the shit out of it, even though we have absolutely no fucking clue what it's about. Especially from "top gaming sites" like IGN, Kotaku, and Gamespot, whose editors have only ever lived in California, and are too "special" and "individual" with "forward thinking" views to have ever seen, or even thought about the true meaning of being oppressed, hunger, cold, or fear. Or to have ever thought about anyone else but themselves really...
It's fucking disgusting.
(no offense decent Californian ppl)
tldr.:
All in all, what is really offending about it is that I payed for that crap, wanted to love it sooo much, was told that I have to love it cos it's smart and indie so it's the best ever... but it Fails in every respect! Both in it's message, and it's gameplay. Shallow, ignorant, offensively oversimplified with little to no meaningful gameplay. It's basically a cookie clicker. There is nothing to love or praise about it.