Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread

[Radegast74]

A great article (by a microbiologist) reviewing the current state of vaccine development:

The Ars COVID-19 vaccine primer: 100-plus in the works, 8 in clinical trials

Here's where we are and what may lie ahead for a vaccine against COVID-19.

arstechnica.com

 

[Bambooza]

I don't agree with Youtube's decision as that's censorship. That said, they're a private business and have the right to remove any video they deem questionable. I don't think Youtube removed the video unprompted. I'm guessing enough people 'flagged' it and it was removed.

Joint statement issued by national physicians’ groups calls local doctors' statement "reckless and untested musings"

www.turnto23.com

This is where it gets dicey and I agree they are a private business and they have a right to host whatever they wish. The issue comes down to if they are a publisher or public forum. As a publisher, they have full control over what is available on their platform, but they are also fully liable for what is hosted. As a public forum, they should be more restricted in what they remove from their servers but they are then protected by the Safe Harbor title two of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act which protects the host from copyright infringement of their users.

I feel that Google is attempting to live by both rules in their pursuit of Ad revenue and they really need to have a lawsuit judgment against them to force them to choose. I strongly feel that those who wish to be a public forum and be protected by the Safe Harbor should be held accountable for maintaining minimal moderation in the forum of removing blatantly illegal, upholding court-ordered takedowns, and blatant copyright infringement but the litmus test should be on the requester as to their legal justification. As it currently stands it's far to easy to have one's content pulled without any recourse.

But enough hijacking the thread for another soapbox.

No, I am not sure I agree with the Doctors but at the same time they are in the trenches with first-hand medical knowledge of what they are dealing with so at a minimum, we should give them due diligence. If they were not Doctors and just some corner store mini-mart store owner then I would say they might not be worth our attention (even this is risky as there have been many a time an immigrant starting a new life in the USA worked at the corner store who had credentials far above most people ) but to silence voices seems utterly risky especially when so many assumptions have proven false and we continued to be reminded we don't have a clue whats going on.

It would appear that not all doctors share the views of these two gentlemen. I'll rather defer to a national body of doctors/scientists instead of well, two. I'll prefer for their views to be scrutinized, peer reviewed, and back up by science.

The biggest issue with peer review and published documents have been shown to have a very political filter (not political as in large scale Liberal/Conservative) which is typically driven from a need to continue to secure grants for further funding. This causes filtering and muting of dissentient to established leaders of the field even if their current research is wrong they are able to maintain their position through peer reviews and published documents that support their outcome. Until they retire or die at which point a few years later its corrected and true science moves forward. We are seeing a little of it with this virus as teams jockey for position. So I would highly suggest you listen to what teams of doctors and the national body says but don't ignore the small groups for often times that is where true breakthroughs happen often contrary to the establishment.

...and the best way to do this is to NOT go by official COVID-19 posted death figures, but to instead look at the number of *EXCESS* deaths reported.

The issue is that the "official" COVID-19 death counts have all the same problems of the # of cases reported, i.e., too little testing leads to a vast undercount.

The NYTimes has started to track excess deaths reported by the city and other states, and it is pretty alarming:
View attachment 15687

Here is a table of the above figures:
View attachment 15688

As the article points out:


TL;DR --> total deaths due to COVID-19 are undoubtedly much higher than what is reported now, but our public health system (bare-bones to begin with) is being stressed way beyond its abilities, and reporting data is going to take time. We likely won't know the true figures for over a year.

NYTimes article is behind a paywall, just delete your "nyt" cookies if you can't get to the article:

U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported, C.D.C. Data Suggests (Published 2020)

In seven hard-hit states, total deaths are nearly 50 percent higher than normal, according to new C.D.C. statistics, suggesting that the virus has killed far more people than the number in official counts.

www.nytimes.com

As I said it's going to take years if it's even possible to dig into who truly died and what the real numbers were even close to being for SARS-CoV-2. And the New York Time's way of looking at trends is the right way to estimate in the short term as it does paint a mostly accurate showing of the death rate.

 

[ColdDog]

What a bunch of BS... WHO and UN need to go away just like the League of Nations. Despots can form their own little guild in N. Korea, China, or Cuba. Sorry Globalist, US interests and not Chinas interests. We give these despots a voice only for the purpose of social justice, nothing more.

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

What a bunch of BS... WHO and UN need to go away just like the League of Nations. Despots can form their own little guild in N. Korea, China, or Cuba. Sorry Globalist, US interests and not Chinas interests. We give these despots a voice only for the purpose of social justice, nothing more.

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

 

[Montoya]

I don't agree with Youtube's decision as that's censorship. That said, they're a private business and have the right to remove any video they deem questionable. I don't think Youtube removed the video unprompted. I'm guessing enough people 'flagged' it and it was removed.

I agree with Youtube on pulling it down because there are so many stupid people out there that can potentially die from believing what they see on the internet. Don't get me wrong, Im all for free speech, but sometimes the only to save idiots from killing themselves is to protect them from information they can not fully understand or process. If we can save the life of one idiot, is that worth pulling a video off youtube?

There was a lot of blatant ignorant, or worse, complete lies that those two doctors pushed in that video:

"This virus is no different from the flu!"

Ok, so why are there 25,000 people dead in NYC? The normal flu season does not kill 25,000 people in one single state.

Are they implying that the death toll is a lie? Now they are treading on the whole "the gubberment is lying and trying to take muh freedoms!"

Its not like NYC is some foreign country that you can't identify on a map that can make up numbers. Just call a friend that lives there and ask them how its going. They will tell you very clearly that they know somebody that got very sick and odds are they know somebody that died. This is not a normal flu.

"When you bring in a system of lock down, you need to compare it to a system of no lock down, Sweden and Norway."

Yeah, Sweden is being hit rising cases and deaths, while other Nordic countries are on the decline because they locked down. We just discussed Sweden in a previous post. Am I taking fucking crazy pills? Do these smart doctors have information that is different from what the rest of the planet sees?

NORWAY

SWEDEN

One of these countries took early action, the other did not!

Since that video came out where he praised the low count of 1400 people dead in Sweden, and additional 1000 people have died in Sweden.

Its so fucking weird to see people look at the exact same data and come up with a complete different story. Not just some random facebook dipshit, but an actual doctor.

He goes on to say that you need to build you immune system by going outside. Yeah, let me call my dad who suffers from high blood pressure and is an extremely high risk demographic and tell him to go play outside, touch things and lick his hands so he can build immunity. Thanks Doctor!

The overall message was that California has extremely low serious cases and relative death tolls compared to population, which is great news, but that does not mean they are in the clear.

If these two doctors had their main clinic in Brooklyn, their message would be very different!

I would bet that if their mother, father or spouse got sick and died, their message would instantly change to "THIS IS SERIOUS! STAY INDOORS!"

 

[Radegast74]

No, I am not sure I agree with the Doctors but at the same time they are in the trenches with first-hand medical knowledge of what they are dealing with so at a minimum, we should give them due diligence.

The problem is, unless they are collecting data and studying the problem scientifically, it really is just a bunch of anecdotal info.

Being licensed as a doctor just means you are minimally competent to practice medicine. Unfortunately, it is hands-off after that, and you had better do your due diligence for any treatment, because the govt. attitude is "buyer-beware."

Me? I'm only going to go with experts in the field of viruses, who have a track record of peer-reviewed publications. If you look around, you can definitely see a bunch of quacks and snake-oil salesman popping out of the woodwork.

 

[Montoya]

The problem is, unless they are collecting data and studying the problem scientifically, it really is just a bunch of anecdotal info.

That is the part I dont get.

Drs. Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi, co-owners of a chain of Accelerated Urgent Care facilities, say that after conducting more than 5,000 coronavirus tests they have come to the conclusion that COVID-19 is no more dangerous than a normal seasonal flu and quarantines are not making any difference in preventing its spread.

"So I tested 5000 people, and I can conclude that this is like the normal flu."

SO WHY THE FUCK ARE SO MANY PEOPLE DEAD FROM THE NORMAL FLU IN NEW YORK?!?!

Why did nobody in the room ask him that?

 

[ColdDog]

Are they implying that the death toll is a lie? Now they are treading on the whole "the gubberment is lying and trying to take muh freedoms!"

This is a arrogant/elitist statement. We let "dumb" people drive cars too. This is a isolation tactic trying to make your thought superior.

Problem is where do you stop, this is what generations of Americans and Brits have died for - the ability to state your thoughts.

Please try to be more respectful.

By this logic, this is how discrimination works.

Truth test for speech - because of my accent or region of the US that I reside in I am marginalized and made fun of.

Youtube is a business, therefore in my opinion they can sensor their content. By this logic a company does not want to do business with gay or white\black\asian\indigenous people they do not have to. That is why this is so contentious and will be debated for generations to come.

At some point you have to accept, "stupid" people drive cars too.

 

[Radegast74]

"So I tested 5000 people, and I can conclude that this is like the normal flu."

SO WHY THE FUCK ARE SO MANY PEOPLE DEAD FROM THE NORMAL FLU IN NEW YORK?!?!

Why did nobody in the room ask him that?

Because it was staged? Nobody knowledgeable and/or reputable is saying this is anything like the normal flu.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

This is a arrogant/elitist statement. We let "dumb" people drive cars too. This is a isolation tactic trying to make your thought superior.

Problem is where do you stop, this is what generations of Americans and Brits have died for - the ability to state your thoughts.

Please try to be more respectful.

By this logic, this is how discrimination works.

Truth test for speech - because of my accent or region of the US that I reside in I am marginalized and made fun of.

Youtube is a business, therefore in my opinion they can sensor their content. By this logic a company does not want to do business with gay or white\black\asian\indigenous people they do not have to. That is why this is so contentious and will be debated for generations to come.

At some point you have to accept, "stupid" people drive cars too.

 

[ColdDog]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1UHcg5goDE

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

UK numbers for today Saturday 2nd of May:

Total confirmed 182,260 with 4,806 new, total dead 28,131with 621 new.

 

[SoloFlyer]

This is a arrogant/elitist statement. We let "dumb" people drive cars too. This is a isolation tactic trying to make your thought superior.

Problem is where do you stop, this is what generations of Americans and Brits have died for - the ability to state your thoughts.

Please try to be more respectful.

By this logic, this is how discrimination works.

Truth test for speech - because of my accent or region of the US that I reside in I am marginalized and made fun of.

Youtube is a business, therefore in my opinion they can sensor their content. By this logic a company does not want to do business with gay or white\black\asian\indigenous people they do not have to. That is why this is so contentious and will be debated for generations to come.

At some point you have to accept, "stupid" people drive cars too.

Where I live you have to take a written and road test and a mandatory 5 hour class to get your license. Yes you can't cure stupid but it isn't like they just hand them out willy nilly. And a company that doesn't do business with a "insert demographic here" is in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean say what you want with no consequences, just that the government can't censor you

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

What a bunch of BS... WHO and UN need to go away just like the League of Nations. Despots can form their own little guild in N. Korea, China, or Cuba. Sorry Globalist, US interests and not Chinas interests. We give these despots a voice only for the purpose of social justice, nothing more.

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1UHcg5goDE

 

[Radegast74]

Where I live you have to take a written and road test and a mandatory 5 hour class to get your license.
<snip>
Freedom of speech doesn't mean say what you want with no consequences, just that the government can't censor you

In other parts of the world, they have much stricter driving requirements...the US is something of a joke in comparison...

Anyway, re: freedom of speech, here is the relevant XKCD comic:

Free Speech

xkcd.com

 

[Montoya]

This is a arrogant/elitist statement. We let "dumb" people drive cars too. This is a isolation tactic trying to make your thought superior.

Fuck yeah if being smart because I can see the fucking numbers put out by medical professionals in NYC is considered arrogant and elitist then Im fucking Einstien crossed with the Queen of England!

Ill isolate happily with the rest of the elitists here and enjoy my parents being alive, thank you.

 

[Montoya]

Here are some geniuses from my ole home town doing the "but muh freedoms" while cosplaying as militia.

Fuck these guys

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1256355095844921345

View: https://twitter.com/QuickTake/status/1256355095844921345

 

[ColdDog]

Ill isolate happily with the rest of the elitists here and enjoy my parents being alive, thank you.

That is your choice (you alone) and can hide for 1 year. But to marginalize a different opinion based on their accent/religious beliefs/knowledge is wrong. Small business can't tolerate this indefinitely... I thought a business person would get it.

 

[ColdDog]

Fuck these guys

Yeah... so what... they have their views like you do. Are they breaking laws? No. Are they protected by the constitution of the US? Yes. I'd say move to Canada if you don't like it, but you already did. Do they look "scary", yes, that is their point - doesn't take a rocket science to see the psychological affect it has on snowflakes (out of their control so they freak out - that is why we call them snowflakes because they melt). Why America separated from England - big government and tyranny.

 

[SoloFlyer]

That is your choice (you alone) and can hide for 1 year. But to marginalize a different opinion based on their accent/religious beliefs/knowledge is wrong. Small business can't tolerate this indefinitely... I thought a business person would get it.

I have to disagree on one point there. To marginalize a different opinion based on their knowledge level is not wrong. To marginalize is to render something powerless or unimportant in a society or group. If an opinion is based around a lack or misunderstanding of knowledge then it should be marginalized