Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread

[Aramsolari]

No it does not, you are not being honest with the context. I want 0 Americans to die, but if there is to be War, more of the enemy will die than us.

Imagine in Starcitizen... Montoya takes a solar system and sends bunch of Auroras to blot out the sun and the opposing force has a a few hammer heads. The US/Canada/Australia/UK are the Hammerheads and China is the Auroras. China can make an Aircraft carrier with our technology, but only the US has fought with one in a "REAL" war.

You Sir, have a very Black and White view of the World where some countries are good and others evil. It's kinda comical. I'm certainly glad you're in no position to make any foreign policy decisions.

Don't be too confident that your traditional allies will be on your side, especially if you're the one starting the fight. That's why it's so important to be filter out the noise (ie unsubstantiated conspiracy theories from fringe elements) and be absolutely crystal clear when you make statements like 'China deliberately unleashed this on us'.

 

[Aramsolari]

Yup, I do not wear a mask (you can cringe), I do not wear a condom either (you can celebrate). Is this what the world has come to, you have to wear a mask on your face and a condom on your penis.

I prefer to let my mouth breath and my penis to do what it was designed to do.

I want 0 people to die breathing the air and having sex.

 

[ColdDog]

You Sir, have a very Black and White view of the World where some countries are good and others evil. It's kinda comical. I'm certainly glad you're in no position to make any foreign policy decisions.

You fight in 4 wars in your lifetime... that typically happens. Gulf I, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Gulf II. I am sorry you find it funny.

 

[Aramsolari]

You fight in 4 wars in your lifetime... that typically happens. Gulf I, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Gulf II. I am sorry you find it funny.

And you're that militaristic you're willing to plunge your country into another one? Another foreign misadventure with even less casus belli against an adversary much more powerful than any fought in your country's recent history?

Alright. Cool.

 

[ColdDog]

And you're that militaristic you're willing to plunge your country into another one?

I have no say except where I am. I let the ideologues like you make the policy decisions. People like me clean up your mess while you sit in your hot tub.

 

[ColdDog]

I can see it now... ALERT, ALERT, SPECIAL REPORT CNN "PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WEAR MASKS ARE LESS LIKELY TO WEAR CONDOMS" we said it here first folks.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

If you were to weaponize a virus... how would you make it?

I would make it a computer virus and attack the infrastructure, not a life lost but a society totally upturned and the population untouched becoming a huge drain on resources... but even that is old school now, too.

Biological warfare is older school than nukes by a matter of a few thousand years. From dumping rotting sheep carcasses into the local well to catapulting dead cows over castle walls, that's old.

In war it was found that injuring an enemy beyond operational capacity was a much larger drain on the foe than simply killing a soldier outright so taking that one step further and leaving as many of a population alive as possible while allowing them to remain just as large a drain on demand as they always were seems to be the logical continuation of that: shut down a society and the oft cited phrase "society is only three missed meals from anarchy". Someone with COVID-19 in an induced coma may likely be less of a draw on resources than someone sat at home wondering how they are going to pay their next mortgage bill. Just look at what happened with the toilet paper.

Even killing people is old school.

"Society is only three missed meals from anarchy". Why go through all the issues of killing a population when you can simply weaponise them? A country would be foolish to unleash a virus on the world, unless they took it to another country and released it there to make them the patsy. The new school is misinformation and using a population against their own country, convincing them doing things that will harm themselves is the right course of action. Look at a countries demographics, work out where the suggestible vulnerabilities are, and sew the seeds. You don't really need an end point, you don't need a goal as it would be very difficult to achieve a specific anyway... you only need destabilization.

A stable country is one with direction and purpose which can then use it's time and resources to effect other countries. Destabilized, it's time and resources are turned inwards to deal with the flaming fudge-bag on its own doorstep and can no longer effect other countries, at least not to the degree it once did.

Social Manipulation. Not a life lost other than those the population inflicted on themselves.... No harm done other than that inflicted by the population to itself.... No damage done other than that which the population insisted was committed in their own interests... Deniability built in because at the end of the day it's just an idea, and even if it is linked to a certain state (which would be terribly difficult to do), it is the target population who were the ones who bit on and acted on it.

The New School. Beautiful, in a way. Very, very scary in others.

 

[ColdDog]

You don't really need an end point, you don't need a goal as that would be very difficult to achieve a specific anyway... you only need destabilization.

A++++++, excellent, you get it. I live in the world of cyber security, so I get to see and analyze the threats. Nothing is perfect, but we are in a age where nukes are not the weapons of mass destruction like they use to be. I am a pariah here but I thank you for your insight. You said in one post what I have been trying to say for 3 months.

 

[Montoya]

Yup, I do not wear a mask (you can cringe),

I have a question for you, its not some sort of "gotcha", but Im just interested in knowing your opinion on how I should approach this issue I am going to face soon:

I plan on visiting my parents in Tampa this summer.

In Iceland, they test almost the entire population and reached a fascinating conclusion. Almost 50% of people who testing positive for COVID-19 were asymptomatic, meaning they could get other people sick, but they themselves had no symptoms!

Keeping that in mind, lets look some different stats:

First question: Do you believe these numbers are made up? Or do you believe they are real?

Second question:

Im in my 40's, going by these numbers, there is a 0.4% chance that if I get this, I will die. Im pretty healthy, no underlying issues that Im aware of. I like those odds.

My parents are in their 70's. Have high blood pressure and other normal underlying issues for elderly people. These stats say there is a (at the low end) 4.8% to 12.8% chance that if they get COVID-19, they may die.

Keeping in mind that I may get infected, have no symptoms at all, and can infect people around me.

In the weeks before I fly, do you recommend I take any special precautions such as a mask? Or do you feel I should roll the dice?

 

[Aramsolari]

I would make it a computer virus and attack the infrastructure, not a life lost but a society totally upturned... but even that is old school now, too.

Biological warfare is older school than nukes by a matter of a few thousand years. From dumping rotting sheep carcasses into the local well to catapulting dead cows over castle walls, that's old.

In war it was found that injuring an enemy beyond operational capacity was a much larger drain on the foe than simply killing a soldier outright so taking that one step further and leaving as many of a population alive as possible while allowing them to remain just as large a drain on demand as they always were seems to be the logical continuation of that: shut down a society and the oft cited phrase "society is only three missed meals from anarchy". Someone with COVID-19 in an induced coma may likely be less of a draw on resources than someone sat at home wondering how they are going to pay their next mortgage bill. Just look at what happened with the toilet paper.

Even killing people is old school.

"Society is only three missed meals from anarchy". Why go through all the issues of killing a population when you can simply weaponise them? A country would be foolish to unleash a virus on the world, unless they took it to another country and released it there to make them the patsy. The new school is misinformation and using a population against their own country, convincing them doing things that will harm themselves is the right course of action. Look at a countries demographics, work out where the suggestible vulnerabilities are, and sew the seeds. You don't really need an end point, you don't need a goal as that would be very difficult to achieve a specific anyway... you only need destabilization.

A stable country is one with direction and purpose which can then use it's time and resources to effect other countries. Destabilized, it's time and resources are turned inwards to deal with the flaming fudge-bag on its own doorstep and can no longer effect other countries, at least not to the degree it once did.

Social Manipulation. Not a life lost other than those the population inflicted on themselves.... No harm done other than that inflicted by the population to itself.... No damage done other than that which the population insisted was committed in their own interests... Deniability built in because at the end of the day it's just an idea, and even if it is linked to a certain state (which would be terribly difficult to do), it is the target population who were the ones who bit on and acted on it.

The New School. Beautiful, a way. Very, very scary in others.

Yeah I agree. Just take a look at the Internet Research Agency based out of St. Petersburg. They're basically a state sanctioned Psyops group that's privately owned. Terrific for deniability as the Russian state can just wipe their hands off it when they're caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Their influence is all over Europe as well. I was in Estonia a couple of years ago and had a chat with local tech guys I met at a pub. They confess that fending off Russia trolls in the online sphere is a daily chore for the tech security guys in the Baltic states.

The Chinese are trying the same thing but they're simply not as sophisticated. I dunno if it's a language or culture thing but they're just not as good. It would also appear that their efforts are primarily targeted at regional trouble spots. (ie. Taiwan, Hong Kong, Xinjiang).

Personally I think that's the biggest threat facing the West. Destabilization through social manipulation. Why leave it to the uncertainty of a virus (which you can easily lose control of) when it's far safer to troll online and have an adversary's population tear each other apart. Coming back to the topic at hand, that's why I don't believe the Chinese deliberately created the virus, then unleashed this on the World. The general consensus among the scientific community and the intelligence community supports that view too. Far too risky with no real upsides, it just doesn't make any sense. Now the possibility of the virus accidentally being released? That's a possibility I'm willing to entertain and even then the strain from the lab is different to Covid19.

 

[ColdDog]

@Montoya... I know this is a joke and I know you know the answer to your questions... but I will play

First question: Do you believe these numbers are made up? Or do you believe they are real?

No, I do not. I do believe they are incomplete but if they are 70% accurate then I give them a passing grade.

Im in my 40's, going by these numbers, there is a 0.4% chance that if I get this, I will die. Im pretty healthy, no underlying issues that Im aware of. I like those odds.

Depends. Do you have a heart condition like diabetes - are you in the risk group. We have enough data now to make a scientific decision.

My parents are in their 70's. Have high blood pressure and other normal underlying issues for elderly people. These stats say there is a (at the low end) 4.8% to 12.8% chance that if they get COVID-19, they may die.

Your parents are in the highest risk group... I'd say skype your parents to be on the safe side (but this is a "gotcha" question)

In the weeks before I fly, do you recommend I take any special precautions such as a mask? Or do you feel I should roll the dice?

Of course... you do what your cable of. I went to home depot and refused to wear a mask when there are 5 people in the store. If I were to go to the supermarket, which I do not do, I have the food delivered, then I would wear a mask. I choose my battlefield and what is the acceptable risk, not the government. That is just me.

To answer your question... it is your choice/behavior not mine. Do not ask for permission to do what is right.

 

[ColdDog]

Far too risky with no real upsides, it just doesn't make any sense.

That is why you should question it. Destabilization is an upside if you want to cause chaos.

 

[August]

That is why you should question it. Destabilization is an upside if you want to cause chaos.

The issue I have with all of this is if the virus is a weapon, eventually the truth will out and we’ll have a common enemy.
If the objective is to ruin an adversary, tearing apart its foundations through years of media and social manipulation sets in place a harmonic resonance in the population which means the adversaries enemy is itself.
Once a society no longer trusts its foundational systems the game is won; you can sit back, troll from the sidelines, and play the long game.

 

[ColdDog]

The issue I have with all of this is if the virus is a weapon, eventually the truth will out and we’ll have a common enemy.

I may think the virus is a weapon, but that does no mean it is. I am saying, place the blame at feet of the people responsible for controlling it, WHO and China. Do not let them get away with this or any rogue nation could cook something up and claim deniability. My wife, the social justice warrior who calls me racist every day (I love her with all my heart), always reminds me of the diseased blankets we gave to the Native Americans during colonial times (English, Spanish and American).

Bad things come in to fashion sometimes. Old school becomes new school. I am not saying this is what happened, nor do I have access to that sensitive information, but I think the WHO dropped the ball. I am simply saying, question everything.

 

[Aramsolari]

The issue I have with all of this is if the virus is a weapon, eventually the truth will out and we’ll have a common enemy.
If the objective is to ruin an adversary, tearing apart its foundations through years of media and social manipulation sets in place a harmonic resonance in the population which means the adversaries enemy is itself.
Once a society no longer trusts its foundational systems the game is won; you can sit back, troll from the sidelines, and play the long game.

Indeed.

If anything this pandemic has laid bare the disdain a lot of people have towards what is in my opinion pillars of our society; scientists, independent media, and livelong civil servants. When did all this anti-intellectualism creep in? I've had conversations with people who refuse to practice social distancing, "Because they don't trust that Scientist hired by Big Government to talk on a Liberal news channel." Well who do you put your trust in then? Karen on Facebook who tells you that 5G Networks spread Covid19? Chad on Twitter who swears that gargling salt will protect you from catching the virus? Just last week I had to yell at my old man about just that bit of misinformation. I told him he's just wasting salt. I also had point to out to my partner's mother that The Epoch Times is NOT a legitimate news source.

I really don't know whether the virus is man made or not (No it's not) or whether it escaped from a lab in Wuhan (I don't think it did). What I do know is that there is a ton of harmful misinformation floating around the Internet right now about Covid19. Hoaxes, conspiracy theories, ineffective treatments...all concocted to destabilize, sow confusion, and most damning of all make us mistrust the pillars of our society and each other. Who's doing it? I dunno...The Russians, The Chinese, Far Right nuts, Far Left nuts, Macedonian kids. Fuck..it could be some chubby dude from Maine who doesn't believe in any of the stuff he writes and is just in it for the money.

It's all so damn frustrating.

 

[ColdDog]

Because they don't trust that Scientist hired by Big Government to talk on a Liberal news channel." Well who do you put your trust in then? Karen on Facebook who tells you that 5G Networks spread Covid19?

I do not think this is about science... the government has earned its reputation (Western Civilization) and I think people are just fed up with everything (information overload). As Naff said, this is destabilizing, intentional or not. Some people, like me, do not trust the government (because we have seen how evil it can be) by nature... they are not stupid, they are just questioning the logic and the end game.

 

[August]

I do not think this is about science... the government has earned its reputation (Western Civilization) and I think people are just fed up with everything (information overload). As Naff said, this is destabilizing, intentional or not. Some people, like me, do not trust the government (because we have seen how evil it can be) by nature... they are not stupid, they are just questioning the logic and the end game.

I understand however when the distrust of government extends to, for example, not taking precautions in the midst of a viral pandemic because the government said it's a good idea, it's no longer a rational response. At that stage there's a good chance your objectivity is compromised.

 

[ColdDog]

I understand however when the distrust of government extends to, for example, not taking precautions in the midst of a viral pandemic because the government said it's a good idea, it's no longer a rational response. At that stage there's a good chance your objectivity is compromised.

As I told Montoya, I do not discriminate, I do not wear condoms. So call me a heretic if you must.

 

[Aramsolari]

I understand however when the distrust of government extends to, for example, not taking precautions in the midst of a viral pandemic because the government said it's a good idea, it's no longer a rational response. At that stage there's a good chance your objectivity is compromised.

Bingo.

 

[August]

As I told Montoya, I do not discriminate, I do not wear condoms. So call me a heretic if you must.

Heresy implies a belief system, I would call you irrational - the data is irrefutable.