Need some hanger advice - a "fighter" ship

Michael · Oct 12, 2020

Pippen said:
Hi all

I need some help deciding on a "fighter" ship. I am looking at something that can take down Buccaneers to Caterpillars (or even Hammerheads :) ). It should be almost an everyday ship that can do many types of shooting. With all the research I have done the Vanguard or MIS seem to be the ones to talk about? Not sure?

I think you're looking for completely different ships.

I wouldn't call the Vanguard a Jack of all trades. Its a pure combat ship, which has its issues.... But still its a great ship.

Since you seem to have narrowed it down to MIS or Vanguard:

I would try MIS first. Also currently the MIS has a harder time due to the new missile changes.

MIS is cheaper -> you can still keep a MIS to Vanguard CCU in buyback
MIS is probably more forgiving on the shooting side (vanguard has a fixed/gimbal different size guns mix) while the MIS has a lot of front faceing firepower at the pilots hand.
I'm not sure how good the turrets of the MIS will help with bad ping. (probably still better than on fixed)
Mis is (a little) bit more Jack of all Trade.
MIS should be pretty soloable. While the Vanguard should be better with a Copilot or NPC/AI blade (soon™).
Vanguard is more agile than the Mis. MIS is more agile than the Max, but still has very slow turning speeds. (which might be good for you with the bad ping?)

BOTH ships will have a hard time 1vs1 a light fighter (who knows what he does)

For shooting down Buccaneers i would go for a lighter fighter. Maybe up to Sabre/Super Hornet. (Gladius, Talon, Buccaneer)

Aramsolari · Oct 12, 2020

I have the MIS and I love it.

Vanguard I've tried but I just can't get it to work. I think it's a Your Mileage May Vary thing. Perhaps try both before making a decision? I have the MIS and there are tons of guys here who have that, the Vanguard, or both. We're more than willing to let you test fly them.

NaffNaffBobFace · Oct 12, 2020

I always say: "Fly Before You Buy"

And then I follow up with: "As it's an Alpha everything is subject to change" because my absolute favorite ship of the game is only that because of what it used to be. I dearly hope one day is might return to it's former glories

I think you may be able to rent both ships in the 'Verse with aUEC or in AC with REC? Give 'em a try and see how you like them before putting your pledge down.

The yearly AeroSpace Expo is coming next month too, if you can hang on long enough both the ships you are thinking about will be available to fly and try at no cost so you can get a feel for them.

Talonsbane · Oct 12, 2020

Based on your ping issues, I'm guessing that you'd potentially prefer to pop the pinatas from a distance. If that's the case, then after it's released into the PU, you might want to look into an Aries as they have a S7 weapon that the ship is effectively built around. 1 is ballistic, the other has a laser.

The Hurricane is great now that CIG did some work with the turrets, but it currently requires a turret gunner to operate them.

If you end up high enough on the Concierge ladder, I'm sure that the F8C Lightning will allow you to shred some targets with ease as well.

I'd keep the Max for running cargo as it'll have the most cargo that can be hauled through the small jump points, which can come in really handy eventually.

Michael · Oct 12, 2020

Its simple a light fighter can easily take out a heavy fighter. It is way more agile and can stay in the blind spots of the ship. So a heavy fighter will have a hard time against a light fighter. The light fighter will have a hard time beating a large ship with its super strong shields (which the light fighter can't break) and turrets. Thats where the heavy fighter will shine.

You can also imagine it with rock paper scissor

Rock is the light fighter
Scissor is a heavy fighter
Paper is a large ship

(This is more pronounced in 1v1)

marcsand2 · Oct 12, 2020

Gladius or Sabre.
The Gladius is a very good agile fighter. The Hawk has more firepower then the Gladius, but it lacks maneuverability and speed. The Arrow is even more agile then the Gladius, but it lacks one shield. The Sabre is less agile but is OP

Vanguard is a tank, MIS is a missile boat

Mastersan · Oct 12, 2020

Pippen said:
TLDR: Which combat ship would you recommend for all PVE fighting content (killing small to large ships, destroying bases, etc) and why?

Cheers!

If you want to destroy small to large ships and destroy bases.... hmmm.... Javelin? Or even Retribution may be the best choice...

On the serious note, at this stage in PvE NPC ships are much weaker than regular player ships, so you may have no issues taking down ships up to Andromeda class. If it's a fighter, then a medium fighter (Super Hornet or Sabre) will feel better against small targets (e.g. Buccaneer), while heavy fighter (Vanguard) will fight better against larger targets (e.g. Caterpillar). Both medium and heavy fighters can take down these types of enemies. With latency issues, you may want to opt for gimbal loadouts and missiles.

For the medium fighters, Super Hornet will have more gun power (up to size 4 gun), while the Sabre will have more missile power (up to size 4 missiles). You may vary your loadouts to suit the target.
The heavy fighter will have a lot of firepower and shields/armor, but won't be as nimble.

Freelancer isn't a fighter.

You may also opt to completely avoid close quarters combat and go for Eclipse. Size 9 torpedoes will be able to take down anything up to Caterpillar. The problem may be small stealthy/hard-to-lock-on-torpedoes-quickly ships, which can close distance very quickly and which you may not be able to target, e.g. M50.

Talonsbane · Oct 12, 2020

Pippen said:
I just had a look at that and it looks AMAZING! But I will never be able to climb that ladder. Do you think the F8A will be just as good?

Yes, but those you will only be able to obtain in game after completing some portion of SQ42 & they will cost a ton.

Michael said:
Its simple a light fighter can easily take out a heavy fighter. It is way more agile and can stay in the blind spots of the ship. So a heavy fighter will have a hard time against a light fighter. The light fighter will have a hard time beating a large ship with its super strong shields (which the light fighter can't break) and turrets. Thats where the heavy fighter will shine.

You can also imagine it with rock paper scissor

Rock is the light fighter
Scissor is a heavy fighter
Paper is a large ship

(This is more pronounced in 1v1)

You make a lot of valid points, with 1 exception, if you catch the light fighter by surprise with a long range shot, you can eliminate it's advantages before it even knows that you're there.

marcsand2 said:
Gladius or Sabre.
The Gladius is a very good agile fighter. The Hawk has more firepower then the Gladius, but it lacks maneuverability and speed. The Arrow is even more agile then the Gladius, but it lacks one shield. The Sabre is less agile but is OP

Vanguard is a tank, MIS is a missile boat

A wise gamer would say, there is no such thing as OP, as all OP things are simply waiting in line for themselves to be nerfed severely.

Mastersan · Oct 12, 2020

Pippen said:
I just had a look at that and it looks AMAZING! But I will never be able to climb that ladder. Do you think the F8A will be just as good?

It's the other way around. F8A is the UEE Military version, while F8C is a Civilian (nerfed) version of F8A. The same goes for F7A and F7C. Typically, the "A" versions have 1 size weapons up from the "C" versions. They may also have larger size components (or may not). So, for example, while F8A has 2 size 4 guns, F8C will only be able to have size 3 guns on the same mounts.

Bambooza · Oct 13, 2020

As @Michael mentioned there is pros and cons with each ship and so there really isn't a ship capable of doing everything on your wish list. Take for instance the MIS. Its a great ship and I enjoy doing the claim jumper missions with it. But up against an Arrow or Gladius its outmatched by their maneuverability. Even the Sabre can typically walk all over the MIS if fighting in an asteroid belt or around a station.

So the MIS is great if you can keep the enemy at a distance and not be working in close quarters. That way you can bring the sizable front guns and tons of missiles to work for you. Which insistently is similar to what you would want to do in the constellation just more pronounced.

Ships like the Hurricane rely on one punch wonders as they can't take a hit but they can dish it out quickly. (reason no one is flying them is because the turret is currently where most of the dps is cant be slaved to the pilot and turrets were not very functional)
Ships like the Hornet are more about being a brawler taking a few hits but still able to fight back. Then ships like the Sabre attempt to allow the pilot to strike first then have enough maneuverability to finish it off before the target can return fire.

Ships like the Vanguard trades a little of its maneuverability and dps for range and survivability. And while the range will be important (think flying across the stanton system in one jump verses several) Its survivability never seemed to be more then the Hornet.

Its hard to judge the bombers at the moment because torpedoes still act like missiles and its unknown if this is intended or just have not had any balance passed performed. But past games have always had torpedoes while dealing large amounts of damage slower and less maneuverable then missiles. And with the showing off of the AI close weapon support guns blowing up torpedoes looks like they are going along the same idea. So bombers will be important but they are not fighters and most likely you wouldn't want to take them out solo.

One ship that is still a wildcard is going to be the Redeemer as its having a complete overhaul. It could be its omnidirectional fire from its turrets will make it easier to fight the more maneuverable fighters like the sabre and gladious vs the MIS

So I would say given your stated skill level and higher ping you wouldn't want to pick a ship that relied on first high landing or survivability from its maneuverability. Your either going to want to fight from a distance or rely on gunners to do the bullet damage for you while focus on flying. With that said my recommendation would be the MIS for now but keep an eye on the Redeemer as more is made available and AI comes online it might very well be the fighter ship you want. In either case you are going to want to keep distance between you and your target and if you get jumped your going to want to run away and not stay and fight. All of these ships are going to be weak/worthless against ships like the Hammerhead as its crafted to destroy them and larger ships will just be able to ignore these fighters due to their shield pool/recharge rate.

But the biggest thing in all of this is knowing your ship and your skills and making sure you engage those ships where you have the advantage and running away from those situations were you are at a disadvantage.

AntiSqueaker · Oct 13, 2020

Different ships are going to have different mission profiles.

To an extent a fighter (e.g. Buccaneer) can be outfit to fight different sizes of ships. A Buccaneer with the (still missing with no cause given lmao) 2xS2 remote turret, 2x S2 gimbals, and a bunch of S1 missiles is going to be a lot better knife fighter for countering other light fighters. Whereas a Buccaneer outfitted with a fixed S4, 2 Fixed S3s and a pair of S3 missiles is much better suited for dropping firepower on larger ships like a Caterpillar or Hull-C.

But that's only to an extent- at the end of the day a Buccaneer is still a light fighter with all the strengths and weaknesses that entails.

No one ship can (or should) do it all. Jack of all trade ships (like the Cutlass, Constellation, Freelancer) pay for their generalist nature by not being as good as a focused ship in a single area.

Back to your question.
Hurricane is in a kinda bad place because turrets are in a kinda bad place and it's a ship entirely reliant on turrets (or for the blade system to come online so you can slave/automate the turret). It has astounding DPS on paper and is super fast if not nimble. It's just reliant on a system that's still very much unpolished and unfinished.

Vanguard is a good ship and most of its strong points (redundant systems, long range capacity) aren't even fully into play yet. Really strong firepower (although I don't personally like such reliance on fixed weapons, but YMMV), durable. What's not to love? Aside from the kinda hefty price tag (and later on: repair bill).

One ship that get's looked over a lot is the Gladiator. Very reliant on missiles but it's surprisingly nimble, has fairly decent firepower (especially once turret slaving/automation is online). Crippling issue, last I heard, is that you can't change the order missiles are loaded so you have to blow your torpedoes before you can start laying down pain with your 4 missile racks. Obviously a bit more specialized than a fighter, but if a wing of them can cripple a capital ship than one of them can cripple a Caterpillar

NaffNaffBobFace · Oct 13, 2020

Thanks for keeping us updated, delighted you like the MIS it's going to be a great ship in the 'Verse as unless you're only out for PvP and shooty missions you're going to get a while lot more from that craft

Range, cargo and punch? The MIS is your friend.

atpbx · Oct 13, 2020

Dont hate me, but....................................................................... the 600i.

Its better than both the Vanguard and the M~~IS.~~

PeppaPigKilla · Oct 13, 2020

There is no competition

The one ship you need and it's a glorious bastard of a ship is the Vanguard Warden

I love this ship, I've tried many fighters, and I'm like you by your description and I've found this to be the chonky annihilator

i dont rate the freelancers at all, i dont get the hype,

feels like im driving a

and when inside it looks like

Bambooza · Oct 13, 2020

Think its missing some of these

Seeker Missile Rack | Elite Dangerous Wiki | Fandom

a some of these.

F/A-18 E/F 20mm M61A1 Six-barrel Gatling Gun and Feed System

Otherwise yep you got it.

Need some hanger advice - a "fighter" ship

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