Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread

[Radegast74]

I would be careful of these stories.

The issue is that there were enough beds *before* the crisis (and it is a CRISIS) to treat this person; now with COVID all the beds were full.

If you read the story, you would have seen that it is normal for them to transfer the patient to another facility, and that in this case, previously it would have been routine and fairly quick.

However, now, it was anything but routine. This is similar to the story before about the other 40-something year old you died of the gallbladder problem...the physician there even said in his entire career he had never lost a patient with that diagnosis before.

EDIT: I don't want to go down a rabbit hole, but before anybody starts blaming Obamacare for anything, one of the reasons why smaller hospitals don't do some complicated procedures in because of the "the more you do, the better you get at it" competency rule...you just have better outcomes when you do procedures more often. It is now quite common for smaller hospitals to diagnose and stabilize somebody and then send them to a bigger regoinal medical center for the so-called complicated procedure. Here is the first PubMed hit showing that low-volume hospital programs led to excess mortality:

Procedure rates and outcomes of coronary revascularization procedures in California and New York - PubMed

Excess coronary artery bypass grafting mortality in California is related to the large number of low-volume programs. Excess percutaneous coronary intervention mortality might be related to case selection or timing of intervention. A relationship between percutaneous coronary intervention volume...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Bambooza]

I don't know the specifics of this case, however take a look at the other cities within the same distance which would have been a more obvious choice to contact and would, one would have thought, have had good facilities for just such an emergency as a cardiac incident: Nashville, Atlanta, Jacksonville, Columbus, Birmingham, Memphis, Huntsville, Chattanooga... I can see how they'd have got on to contacting 40+ places if they had hit up the most obvious city facilities before checking in with smaller places like Meridian.

As I said, I don't know specifics, but if you draw a circle around Cullman 200 miles either side, there are a lot of big places to choose from...

Correct we don't know specifics. We don't know if they have partner/sister hospitals. In-network vs out of network, nor how that region medical emergency escalation works. I believe I even said I had no clue if Covid patients were part of the issue filling up the beds of the normal hospital escalation contact and thus forcing the regional to search for alternatives.

It could be those other higher-tier hospitals closer to Cullman were turning away patients due to no ICU beds being available but that has not been shown to be true or false as of the moment.

The whole point was to express caution in jumping on these kinds of stories because they are convenient to ones narrative especially when a lot of the truth is not yet known and even the parts that are known like the fact that this hospital has to ship off cardiac patients even when there are no covid patents due to not having the facilities is brushed aside. The medical system in the states has a lot of breaks in it and was stressed prior to covid19.

Other things to ask questions about was where were these stories last November/December when the number of hospitalizations was much higher? Has it only became relevant because we can now blame antivaxers?

Where is the drive to create tent overflow hospitals?

What happened to my body my choice? Or is that only useful for justifying abortion?

These really are the questions we should be asking as anytime we as a society attempt to force any sort of collective morality on a country it has never been a good thing.
While I can show with in the last 50 years the hurt caused by such attempts just with in the USA, it's not limited to the states but something that has been tried and enforced with blood for the ages. We are witnessing the rationalization of this path being played out right now in Afghanistan and how a small minority is fully implementing their will on the majority and forcefully so.

 

[Bambooza]

EDIT: I don't want to go down a rabbit hole, but before anybody starts blaming Obamacare for anything, one of the reasons why smaller hospitals don't do some complicated procedures in because of the "the more you do, the better you get at it" competency rule...you just have better outcomes when you do procedures more often. It is now quite common for smaller hospitals to diagnose and stabilize somebody and then send them to a bigger regoinal medical center for the so-called complicated procedure. Here is the first PubMed hit showing that low-volume hospital programs led to excess mortality:

Procedure rates and outcomes of coronary revascularization procedures in California and New York - PubMed

Excess coronary artery bypass grafting mortality in California is related to the large number of low-volume programs. Excess percutaneous coronary intervention mortality might be related to case selection or timing of intervention. A relationship between percutaneous coronary intervention volume...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ya no, I agree with you which is why I said it was an issue prior to.

 

[Radegast74]

And another one bites the dust...

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/coronavirus/article254229818.html

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Corner - Some headlines from around the world from today, Tuesday 14th of September:

- World: Global Confirmed 225,630,856 Global Deaths 4,645,139

- UK: Boris Johnson warns Covid risk remains as he unveils England's winter plan

- UK: Job vacancies surge past one million in new record

- UK: Covid jab rollout to start in UK schools

- Northern Ireland: Anger as baby's surgery halted over lack of beds

- China: Cases double in new south-east China Covid outbreak linked to school

- Australia: Victoria’s surging Covid cases put pressure on contact tracing

- Netherlands: Netherlands to introduce 'corona pass' for entry to venues

- Turkey: Turkey cases highest since May

- South Africa: South Africa vaccine hub may need year to replicate Moderna vaccine

- Russia: Russian president Vladimir Putin reportedly self-isolating after coronavirus cases detected in entourage

- Maritius: Mauritius is battling an explosion of coronavirus cases.

 

[Montoya]

At which point do you think they will say "well, maybe there IS a bit of a problem here?"

 

[Radegast74]

At which point do you think they will say "well, maybe there IS a bit of a problem here?"

View attachment 21350

I don't see a problem. After all, they are dying for what they believed in. It's good to see some integrity...and as my 10th grade history teacher used to say' "The world NEEDS bad examples."

The REAL PROBLEM is who ^ these free-dumb "fighters" spread it to & infected, who trusted their fellow man to do the right thing & either get vaccinated or mask up, or both...

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Corner - Some reports from some news outlets from today, Wednesday 15th of September:

- World: Global Confirmed 226,142,621 Global Deaths 4,655,116

- UK: How Nicki Minaj and swollen testicles became part of a UK coronavirus briefing

- Vatican: Pope puzzled about vaccine hesitancy in the Church

- France: Thousands of unvaccinated French health workers face suspension

- UK: Covid teams can jab pupils against parents’ wishes, UK schools told

- Singapore: Singapore reports worst daily Covid case tally in more than a year

- Italy: Italy to make Covid-19 'green pass' mandatory for public and private sector workers

- EU: EU leader says Covid vaccinations must speed up to avoid a 'pandemic of the unvaccinated'

- US: Republican lawmakers in over half of US states have removed powers to protect against infectious diseases during pandemic

- WHO/UK: WHO praises UK's 'learning to live with the virus' approach but criticises use of booster shots and vaccinating 12- to 15-year-olds

- EU: EU pledges an additional 200m vaccine doses to other countries

- Canada: A surge in coronavirus cases has pushed the healthcare system in the Canadian province of Alberta to the verge of collapse

- Americas: Rates of Covid-19 have risen by a third in North America over the past week, due to surges in the US and Canada

- UK: More than four million people stopped wearing face coverings in public in the UK this summer

Thousands of unvaccinated French health workers face suspension – as it happened

Thanks for following along – this blog is now closed. You can catch up with the latest coronavirus coverage here.

www.theguardian.com

 

[Radegast74]

Here we go...we all knew that the unvaccinated were costing us a ton of money with their (unnecessary) hospitalizations. Now, they are starting to add up the costs:

Unvaccinated U.S. Covid Patients Cost $5.7 Billion To Treat In Last 3 Months, Study Finds

Taxpayers, businesses and workers will be paying back some billions in Covid-19 hospital expenses from June, July and August, new research suggests.

www.forbes.com

From the article:

Preventable costs associated with treating unvaccinated American Covid-19 patients amounted to at least $3.7 billion in August and $5.7 billion since June, according to research by the Kaiser Family Foundation,

What I didn't know:

Due to laws preventing insurers from charging unvaccinated people higher premiums, the Kaiser report said the bill will fall on everyone as they will pay only “a small share of the cost” directly. This means a greater burden on the taxpayer and the risk of higher insurance premiums for businesses and workers, the report said. The costs of being unvaccinated are on the rise, however, with some employers charging higher insurance premiums to employees foregoing vaccination and others making it a condition of work.

So, insurance companies can't directly charge people higher premiums, but the employer can? The US healthcare "system" is beyond my understanding...in any event, yes, we are all paying more for people rejecting vaccination. I guess the law was probably passed *before* there was a vaccine?

Here is a link to the original research:

Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

COVID-19 vaccines have been free and broadly available to adults in all states and the District of Columbia since mid-April 2021, meaning adults in the U.S. have generally been able to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19 since late May 2021 if receiving a two-dose vaccine. COVID-19 vaccines are...

www.healthsystemtracker.org

 

[Vavrik]

Here we go...we all knew that the unvaccinated were costing us a ton of money with their (unnecessary) hospitalizations. Now, they are starting to add up the costs:

Unvaccinated U.S. Covid Patients Cost $5.7 Billion To Treat In Last 3 Months, Study Finds

Taxpayers, businesses and workers will be paying back some billions in Covid-19 hospital expenses from June, July and August, new research suggests.

www.forbes.com

From the article:


What I didn't know:


So, insurance companies can't directly charge people higher premiums, but the employer can? The US healthcare "system" is beyond my understanding...in any event, yes, we are all paying more for people rejecting vaccination. I guess the law was probably passed *before* there was a vaccine?

Here is a link to the original research:

Unvaccinated COVID-19 hospitalizations cost billions of dollars - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

COVID-19 vaccines have been free and broadly available to adults in all states and the District of Columbia since mid-April 2021, meaning adults in the U.S. have generally been able to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19 since late May 2021 if receiving a two-dose vaccine. COVID-19 vaccines are...

www.healthsystemtracker.org

Meh!
The new insurance premium calculation (2021 Simplified form).
Line 1. How much money did you earn before tax?____________
Line 2. How much money did you pay in income taxes? ____________

Line 3. Subtract Line 2 from Line 1 _____________

Send it.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Corner - Some reports from some news outlets from today, Wednesday 15th of September:

- World: Global Confirmed 226,748,032 Global Deaths 4,664,291

- Italy: Italy to require all workers to show Covid pass

- UK: NI asks for more Covid help from military medics

- Trinidad: Trinidad 'wasted time' on Nicki Minaj Covid claims

- China: 70% of China’s population now fully vaccinated

- France: France suspends 3,000 unvaccinated health workers without pay

- Australia: Virgin Australia issues staff vaccine mandate

- Russia: Putin to spend 'a few days' in Covid self-isolation

- Canada: Alberta's healthcare system facing 'crisis of the unvaccinated'

- US: One in 500 in the US have died from COVID

 

[Radegast74]

Follow-up from before:

COVID-19 surge forces health care rationing in parts of West

In another ominous sign about the spread of the delta variant, Idaho public health leaders expanded health care rationing statewide and individual hospital systems in Alaska and Montana have enacted similar crisis standards

abcnews.go.com

From the article:

Idaho is one of the least vaccinated U.S. states, with only about 40% of its residents fully vaccinated against COVID-19. Only Wyoming and West Virginia have lower vaccination rates.

Crisis care standards mean that scarce resources such as ICU beds will be allotted to the patients most likely to survive. Other patients will be treated with less effective methods or, in dire cases, given pain relief and other palliative care.

One in every 201 Idaho residents tested positive for COVID-19 over the past week, according to a tally by Johns Hopkins University. The mostly rural state ranks 12th in the U.S. for newly confirmed cases per capita. More than 1,300 new coronavirus cases were reported to the state on Wednesday, according to the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare.

 

[Montoya]

Poor Idaho... its as if there are actual consequences for your actions.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Poor Idaho... its as if there are actual consequences for your actions.

View attachment 21351

I doubt they'd care. I recall the phrase 'I'd rather die free than live slaves' being used. Note the plural, when they willingly got on that train everyone else was along for the ride.

It seems one of the great ironies of the universe is that it is rare for those who are willing to pay for something with lives to be the ones called to put theirs forward to complete the transaction.

A lot of innocents who were not part of this until the day they needed medical care will be harmed by this.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

Paraphrasing from one of Dan Carlons Hardcore History Podcasts, looks like its from a speech to text generator so if bear with me.

"what, if, instead of giving your own life and and what you would be willing to die for, the new list is what would you be willing to lose everything for and by everything I certainly mean your life, that's a given, but the lives of all your loved ones, one way or another either through outright death or having them sold into a life of slavery, your little kids sold into a life of slavery and all your possessions"

"many people in order to protect their societies freedom sent their own children off to die in a war, so this is part of the human condition, but unless you've lived through near genocidal conditions, most of us haven't had to deal with the kind of threat that people throughout history have had to deal with to everything that general, a coin. New Hampshire state Motto, live free or die was a revolutionary war general, for example. He wrote that phrase decades after the war and in total freedom and safety. Now I have no doubt he would have been willing to give his life in the service of what was a brand new country during the revolutionary war, but he could also take some comfort in the idea that he wasn't going to have to give much more than that."

I don't think these people would actually be willing to sacrifice their children if they knew the threat was real. The good news is that there were maybe only a hundred people at these protests.

Probably the best podcast ever, well worth the 6 hours. Trust me.

Just a side note, remember there are 350 million people in this country. Even if the news shows you clips non stop week after week of 1000 people doing dumb shit, while it may make it seem like the country is just full of idiots, the reality is probably more tame than that. Ask you real life friends if theyre getting the shot and how they feel about it, don't rely on interactions with strangers on the internet to paint a picture of the entire country.

- China: 70% of China’s population now fully vaccinated

Do you all believe that they've vaccinated close to a billion people? I don't. I think its reasonable to question the CCP's official number when they won't let US journalists / scientists in to investigate. If they actually did vaccinate a billion people in less than a year I'd be super impressed.

 

[Aramsolari]

Do you all believe that they've vaccinated close to a billion people? I don't. I think its reasonable to question the CCP's official number when they won't let US journalists / scientists in to investigate. If they actually did vaccinate a billion people in less than a year I'd be super impressed.

I won’t be surprised if that’s true. I’ve lived in authoritarian countries before and if the government says jump, you do it. Concepts of personal freedom and choice are alien. Very early on in the pandemic China locked down an entire city the population of Chicago. They used all the powers of the state including having police lock people in their own homes to enforce that. Anti-vaxxer protester? Yeah right, that’s a one way ticket to a ‘Laogai’ camp.

I don’t doubt the Chinese authorities when they say they’ve vaxxed X amount of people. I do, however, doubt the efficacy of their vaccines (Sinopharm, Sinovac, etc). Some of the numbers they’ve quoted are super dodgy.

 

[Jolly_Green_Giant]

I won’t be surprised if that’s true. I’ve lived in authoritarian countries before and if the government says jump, you do it. Concepts of personal freedom and choice are alien. Very early on in the pandemic China locked down an entire city the population of Chicago. They used all the powers of the state including having police lock people in their own homes to enforce that. Anti-vaxxer protester? Yeah right, that’s a one way ticket to a ‘Laogai’ camp.

I don’t doubt the Chinese authorities when they say they’ve vaxxed X amount of people. I do, however, doubt the efficacy of their vaccines (Sinopharm, Sinovac, etc). Some of the numbers they’ve quoted are super dodgy.

I thought the same thing as well. If you have as much power over your population as China has, I can easily see forcing people to get their vaccine. Its the logistics behind it that I find questionable. China is gargantuan. Also like you mentioned, I too question the efficacy of their vaccines.

There's two things that would make me believe their vaccines are comparable to the wests.
1.) They stole the vaccine formulation from the west, as China has been known to do with other IP's / Research.
2.) The US collaborated with the Chinese to develop a vaccine.

Is it possible they created their own vaccine without theft or help from the outside? Of course, I just find it hard to believe. China is still considered a developing nation. Maybe I'm just ignorant when it comes to China, I just have very little faith in their competency. If they were competent we might have seen a different outcome when it comes to this pandemic. Instead we got a cover up and a delayed response due to the incompetency of their local officials and the rest of the world wasnt allowed in to help or figure out wtf even happened.

 

[Radegast74]

I thought the same thing as well. If you have as much power over your population as China has, I can easily see forcing people to get their vaccine. Its the logistics behind it that I find questionable. China is gargantuan. Also like you mentioned, I too question the efficacy of their vaccines.

There's two things that would make me believe their vaccines are comparable to the wests.
1.) They stole the vaccine formulation from the west, as China has been known to do with other IP's / Research.
2.) The US collaborated with the Chinese to develop a vaccine.

Is it possible they created their own vaccine without theft or help from the outside? Of course, I just find it hard to believe. China is still considered a developing nation. Maybe I'm just ignorant when it comes to China, I just have very little faith in their competency. If they were competent we might have seen a different outcome when it comes to this pandemic. Instead we got a cover up and a delayed response due to the incompetency of their local officials and the rest of the world wasnt allowed in to help or figure out wtf even happened.

China has a fairly modern pharmaceutical industry (guess who helped pay for it? ha ha) They developed their own vaccine, it is just the "old tech" version (i think it is just bits of the virus, but dead) that they inject...the efficacy is no where near as good as the mRNA vaccines, which is why they have to be very heavy handed about closing things down when necessary, and make sure they vaccinate everybody.

China’s risky COVID-19 vaccine development strategy paid off

China is now positioned to take a larger role in helping bring an end to the global pandemic.

fortune.com

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

COVID Corner - Some reports from some news outlets from today, Friday 17th of September:

- World: Global Confirmed 227,364,760 Global Deaths 4,675,173

- Thailand: Bangkok's idle taxis turned into vegetable patches

- India: India gives 20 million jabs to mark Modi's birthday

- UK: Scotland, Soldiers to drive ambulances in military aid plan

- France: close to 90% of people in country have had at least one vaccine dose

- Australia/New Zealand: New Zealand extends Australia travel bubble pause as cases drop to 11

- Long Covid: Long Covid in children and adolescents less common than feared

 

[Bambooza]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT3GUKuAzIs