So ORG space stations announced

[Thalstan]

Honestly, it might be better to have multiple stations if possible. Operating bases out of the criminal systems and large shipbuilding and manufacturing centers in the lawful systems. Mining and other operations occur at the forward operating bases, while the spoils are send under heavy guard back to the large manufacturing centers back in safe space. From there, you keep rolling out additional stations and other facilities.

Unfortunately, CIG seems to have fallen back on the developer’s end game of last resort…PvP. Seriously, 5 star systems and you have having people construct Bengal Carriers. How does CIG really expect this to go? No big bad enemy to fight like the Vanduul, no trading missions to Xi’an space, no exploration looking for new systems. It’s all just going to come down to PvP at the end, and once the non-pvper gets tired of it, the game loses too many people for the game to be truly sustainable.

20 star systems, with some being vanduul, Xi’an and Banu (2-3 each), 11-14 UEE with a mix of Lawful Criminal, and Neutral status (I would call Nyx Neutral). This gives the orgs rooms to grow, room to do PvP, PvE, and other non-combat missions.

 

[Randson]

Well, whatever we decide, we got a little while and a set list of orbits we can choose from. And we have to start somewhere. So, If beta is 1.0 and we only have the 4 systems to choose from, personally, I’d like to know eventually where we’d start out and focus on one massive effort as an org, much like others have expressed in maybe other ways. My small group of friends and I have been constantly talking about this since last year or so speaking of how to go about these things and buying up the tools over the last year or so to make it as easy as possible. Personally, I just hope that this Org can come together as a unit to make this happen, but one step at a time. Our installations on the ground could.. and logistically SHOULD be just as important as the station itself. And in order to build a city, you need the people and the dedication to a single zone. There’s plenty of time to choose a locale, but when we do, that location will be announced so the masses can make their foothold and better help the greater effort.

 

[Han Burgundy]

20 star systems, with some being vanduul, Xi’an and Banu (2-3 each), 11-14 UEE with a mix of Lawful Criminal, and Neutral status (I would call Nyx Neutral). This gives the orgs rooms to grow, room to do PvP, PvE, and other non-combat missions.

Soon, my young apprentice. The Genesis tool-set showcased how they are going to be able to pull off 100% randomly generated Solar systems for explorers to find and Orgs to fight over. Hell, there might even be existing inhabitants that are VERY unhappy to see humans showing up in their back yard. All they need to do is build out alien infrastructure assets and plug them into the system to create entire Banu or Xian worlds for us to stumble across (Dare I say Kingships?). This is a natural PVE endgame and ultimately what a lot of us are here for; Flying off into the dark with no idea what we're going to find. That will soon be possible for Genesis, especially if they tie in undiscovered wild jump points to the probability volumes that run events in systems. Tie that same layers system into large scale scanning/detection tech and a good crew will be able to sniff out the area in space that a wild jump point is more likely to spawn. Boom: Hands-off infinitely expanding universe. Suck it, Elite Dangerous!

 

[Richard Bong]

I would not even suggest a location until we know much, much more. I only mentioned Vanduul space and Orion, because that is one logical location to annex a volume of space, and even then it will require cooperation with the UEE military.

I will note the space around Leir has multiple benefits because of the odd disposition of its residents and direct connection to Vanduul space. There are really only two access points to the enemies of humanity: Leir and Orion. Leir has been raided by Void Bombers but only just raided. Orion was obliterated. Keep in mind, war zones are salvage zones. If you can manage the risk they likely afford the best revenue.

Our miners and salvagers will likely share the best insights for locations that secure best revenue. I’d look to them. I’m a simple murderer. I kill Vanduul. I have no other mission in life since they killed my mother and sister.

I never met a Vanduul I didn’t like. . .to gouge its eyes out.

There are 5 systems for the foreseeable future. Not even Odin or Vega is on the list.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Are we going to be building stations when there are only 5 systems? I’m obviously missing intel.

 

[Richard Bong]

Every port I ever sailed into seemed like it had an Irish Bar somewhere. It became a game to try and find one everywhere we went. Maybe we could call the station the "Hairy Lemon" after the Dublin spot.
OR
we could go the opposite direction and name it Inigo in honor of Montoya looking for the six fingered man who murdered his father.

 

[Richard Bong]

Are we going to be building stations when there are only 5 systems? I’m obviously missing intel.

In 13 years they have built one system and it isn't finished yet. Why wait?

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Do we know it’s an option? They said base building in ‘25. Who knows how many systems will be open by then? I think we’re jumping the gun and really, it’s Montoya’s call. Not really a vote, folks.

Just saying, we have nothing like appropriate intel for that discussion. We need to know what the bases DO, before even thinking about where to put them.

I can think of a couple dozen questions that need answering before discussing locations. For instance, their appearance is they’re turtles, with no significant weapons. If that’s so, they need a fleet nearby so fleet location becomes a prime concern.

What about production? If they refine salvage, locating them in a defensible system nearby salvage is relevant.

We might find that the bases deliver a set quantity boon divided by the number of players in an org, which means developing the ability to construct them in large quantities matters more than location, and we will eventually want them all over. Are they labor intensive or are they mostly crewed by NPCs? Do they specialize in a particular task or type of production or are they generic? For instance, they can produce cap ships. Does that mean they can produce any cap ship or would they better specialize in one kind of cap ship? We have more Idris and Javs than we can man. So would we be better off building mines?

The question of what a base can produce is huge. Since WWII, the doctrine of mobility warfare has loomed large, which suggests all bases should be kept far from zones of aggression. That rules out Pyro. Pyro could easily become a hotbed of criminal raiders. OTOH, if transport times to stations become the bottleneck of production, then more risk in location is warranted. I promise you, the location and number of bases requires thorough evaluation. It’s complex. We can’t solve it with the pitiful intel we have at present. Even with 22,000 members, manning a base could easily become the single limiting factor. It could become too many is worse than too few, if we can’t get players to participate.

Honestly, there are way too many unanswered questions. Lots and lots. Many dozens, I think.

 

[Richard Bong]

Do we know it’s an option? They said base building in ‘25. Who knows how many systems will be open by then? I think we’re jumping the gun and really, it’s Montoya’s call. Not really a vote, folks.

Just saying, we have nothing like appropriate intel for that discussion. We need to know what the bases DO, before even thinking about where to put them.

I can think of a couple dozen questions that need answering before discussing locations. For instance, their appearance is they’re turtles, with no significant weapons. If that’s so, they need a fleet nearby so fleet location becomes a prime concern.

What about production? If they refine salvage, locating them in a defensible system nearby salvage is relevant.

We might find that the bases deliver a set quantity boon divided by the number of players in an org, which means developing the ability to construct them in large quantities matters more than location, and we will eventually want them all over. Are they labor intensive or are they mostly crewed by NPCs? Do they specialize in a particular task or type of production or are they generic? For instance, they can produce cap ships. Does that mean they can produce any cap ship or would they better specialize in one kind of cap ship? We have more Idris and Javs than we can man. So would we be better off building mines?

Honestly, there are way too many unanswered questions. Lots and lots. Many dozens, I think.

There is no way 1.0 will be before 2026. I dare say it is, at least, 5 years out. Which means, since they are launching with 5 systems...

I'm not saying don't have more than one base, just that the first base should be in one of the first 5 systems. Since no more resets after 1.0, building a base early gives us advantages.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I agree. I still think we need a lot more answers and that voting is clearly out. Montoya and whomever he holds as counsel needs to decide and we need to all get behind this. I say this as one with zero influence on our leader. We should not be discussing location. We should be discussing what he needs to know to make the best decision.

For the first time in Alpha we have a goal. Let’s discuss the intricacies of what Montoya needs to consider and be happy with whatever he decides.

Not brown-nosing. Just calling it like it is.

The single most urgent thing that comes to my mind, is that a base can produce a Bengal. Given this is so, which is a huge revelation after a decade of being told we can’t just buy them, my uninformed intuition is ignore materials shipping times and locate a base where it's least vulnerable—think of it like America’s production capacity insulated by two oceans and half a continent during WWII, when we built all our armor and planes in and around Detroit, where no one could get at them.

 

[Aramsolari]

It’s too early to be discussing station building locations. We know there will be 5 systems at release and that’s about it. I'm sure they'll be churning out largely empty (ie. Without planets) albeit resource rich (asteroids, gas nebulas, etc) for Orgs to fight over eventually. My uneducated prediction is that base building will make it to 1.0 but station building at the advanced level as presented at CitizenCon won’t.

Either way it does look like CIG is looking at the EVE online model of player dominated systems as the endgame. I do think PVE will make up the bulk of the player base’s interest but PVP is where it’s at if you wanna experience that top level endgame content. That’s where Org run stations and that planetary shielding system they have planned comes in. What we're seeing are tools that are essentially PVP in nature to facilitate more PVP stuff. Personally I think this is the right decision. The MMOs that have longevity all place emphasis on PVP. Sooner or later you’ll run out of PVE content and have to rely on player generated sandbox content. Nothing better than player generated content to keep folks engaged. I mean what’s the point of having player controlled Javelins and Idrises when we can't use it to smash other player controlled Javelins and Idrises?

TEST is well set up to capitalize on all this due to the sheer size of the Org. That said we’ll need to be on our A game when it comes to logistics and organization. We joke about disorganized Auroras and all that but we can't be herding cats if we wanna run expensive stations AND the logistics/defense fleets to build/maintain/defend them. At the end of the day, I’m confident we’ll do well.

 

[Talonsbane]

I was simply pointing out that supposedly, many nebulae are made up of alcohol based gasses, which might be harvested to benefit the TESTification of the Verse.

 

[Aramsolari]

I was simply pointing out that supposedly, many nebulae are made up of alcohol based gasses, which might be harvested to benefit the TESTification of the Verse.

Yesss.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Player crafted items, equipment, and even vehicles are supposed to be better than their existing counterparts.

Wait... So the SuperAurora can really be a thing... built by TEST Squardon ourselves...?I

 

[Smashdaddy]

So to my understanding it does not matter where we build it, as if all Testies are busy in system we will have the most tokens each week and will be shielded and not be able to be attacked i.e. Invulnerable whoop whoop.

 

[AccidentProne8]

Soon, my young apprentice. The Genesis tool-set showcased how they are going to be able to pull off 100% randomly generated Solar systems for explorers to find and Orgs to fight over. This is a natural PVE endgame and ultimately what a lot of us are here for; Flying off into the dark with no idea what we're going to find. That will soon be possible for Genesis, especially if they tie in undiscovered wild jump points to the probability volumes that run events in systems.

Oh man, and they could even be one offs if they achieve seamless generation. That could be super cool.

 

[Thalstan]

Soon, my young apprentice. The Genesis tool-set showcased how they are going to be able to pull off 100% randomly generated Solar systems for explorers to find and Orgs to fight over. Hell, there might even be existing inhabitants that are VERY unhappy to see humans showing up in their back yard. All they need to do is build out alien infrastructure assets and plug them into the system to create entire Banu or Xian worlds for us to stumble across (Dare I say Kingships?). This is a natural PVE endgame and ultimately what a lot of us are here for; Flying off into the dark with no idea what we're going to find. That will soon be possible for Genesis, especially if they tie in undiscovered wild jump points to the probability volumes that run events in systems. Tie that same layers system into large scale scanning/detection tech and a good crew will be able to sniff out the area in space that a wild jump point is more likely to spawn. Boom: Hands-off infinitely expanding universe. Suck it, Elite Dangerous!

I actually doubt that it will be "soon"
Heck, they could have included the Odin system at least, and maybe the Vega system (but that's probably only a small area completed), but they didn't. I get why they didn't do Earth. After all, everyone will be wanting to fly to and see what happened to where we as players actually live or grew up, and no matter what happens, it won't be right.

Now, let's take a look at Orgs. There are currently 84k orgs. let's say only 8k (a bit under10 percent of these) can establish their own space station. and 800 of these (so less than 1 percent) can make multiple stations

5 systems
Stanton - 18 planets and moons
Terra - 10 locations
Nyx - 6 locations
Pyro - 13 locations
Castra - 2 locations

This means 49 planets and moons to place a station around.

Even with just 800 stations, you are talking 16+ per location, and over 160 single stations..
If populated equally around planets and moons then each system would have
Station 288 multi stations and 2880 individual stations
Terra - 160 Multi/1600 individual station
Nyx - 96/960
Pyro 208/2080
Castra 32 and 320.
(yes, this is 16/160 short, but that's rounding)

If evenly distributed, 160 multi-stations per system and 1600 per system

This means shards as they really don't have room for all that, "deep space" stations that encourage players to be away from planets, "high orbit" locations (for example, outside of orbit of Yela for Crusader) , or some other way to force player stations away from planets.

Even then, player POIs are going to be a significant number.

Also, what happens when a "lawful" org attacks another "lawful" org? Is the attacking one now banned from Terra? After all, they could now be considered criminals and as a criminal, they lose their citizenship. with the loss of citizenship, you lose some of those perks they talked about.

CIG really has not thought their gameplay through IMO...

 

[Daak Gelrin]

Standing-by to dump tons and tons of building supplies on Glorious Leaders front lawn, hit the keg, then rinse and repeat.

 

[AccidentProne8]

In 13 years they have built one system and it isn't finished yet. Why wait?

Mind you this is top tier hopium, but given the cited length of squadron 42 at 30 to 40 hours I'm starting to buy into the theory that the PU as it exists has been a delaying action to buy time to finish squadron 42 and things may change rapidly once that's out the door.

 

[Aramsolari]

Mind you this is top tier hopium, but given the cited length of squadron 42 at 30 to 40 hours I'm starting to buy into the theory that the PU as it exists has been a delaying action to buy time to finish squadron 42 and things may change rapidly once that's out the door.

CIG’s plan is to have 5 systems out for 1.0. Stanton and Pyro are done. Nyx shouldn’t be too hard. Castra and Terra are the tricky systems, especially Terra. Hopefully the completion of SQ42 will accelerate the PU’s development but I’m skeptical we’ll see 1.0 out by 2026.