Your opinion. What's acceptable on mumble?

[Derkerter]

This comment is going to go in circles probably.

I have yet to be in the mumble, but the golden rule for me has always been "Don't be a direct dick." Direct personally attacks are never cool. I have a tendency to say some potentially offensive/off-putting things, but my brain filter sucks. As Ichiru said, education is important. I am very hard to offend, and as such, I tend to be a bit on the offensive side, and if someone says "Yo, not cool" My first reaction is almost always "why?" more than just stopping since I'm also a curious person.

In my opinion, blatant attacks (hate speech, racism, etc) is no. Directed attacks towards an individual is even worse. Certain joke topics can be borderline, but the crowd determines acceptability, with my normal gaming group, it's fairly free for all with jokes as long as it doesn't turn into an attack (Which we have a rule of 3 with, once a "same joke" runs 3 times by the same person towards the same thing, it is considered an attack).

Slurs are, in my opinion, not acceptable, unless you know FOR A FACT it is okay with the ENTIRE group, which would usually be a small group, not in general chat.

Like has been said, this is a big group, there's a lot of people and a lot of opinions. Not everyone shares the same opinion. "Politics in passing" are okay in my opinion, but that qualifies as "Hey did you hear about <x candidate doing y>" or "I like how <b> did his speech" but should be off-hand comments instead of full debates.
Debates should be done in their own channel, tiffs and arguements included

EDIT: I hit enter to soon and prematurely posted

 

[Willem Default]

 

[Shive]

Politics?

IMO US politics is ok if you are not a fanatic who automatically assumes anybody with a differing opinion to yours must be a complete idiot. If you can treat others with respect and not get offended when everybody else disagrees with you, then yeah, its probably ok.

However, in my experience, most people who discuss US politics do it with the same drive and energy as discussing their favorite sports team. I have seen friendships destroyed because one guy said the other guys team was stupid.

For this very reason it is often best to avoid the topic, we are here to play a game and relax, not get all worked up about political garbage.

International politics are tricky, we have members from all over the world and somebody is bound to get pissed off. Best to avoid it unless its small group of people that you know.

I question this very much Montoya...

First of all because you're biased towards the US... and secondly;

There's a difference between saying someone's views are stupid and that someone is stupid. Using the word stupid is probably never clever, you could phrase it a lot smarter, but point being - going for the ball instead of the man should, IMO, be something that is allowed.

You could just as well see a friendship get destroyed over a mouse vs keyboard discussion, should we ban that discussion too now? Nvidea vs AMD? Rather than banning those specific topics, it is my opinion that we should allow it. We're not parents here, watching over our childrens every move... People can and will disagree and I think it's up to us to step in when these people do it in a non-civil way.

That said, a week ago or something, I had the joy of moving like 6 people out of general chat because there was a heated discussion about politics and history. It was too heated to give space to a lot of other conversation, so I moved them, but the chat was civil.

So, you could say this is a problem - though we could cultivate our peoples to just get used to saying "hey, can you take this discussion to another channel? It's getting a bit heated".

On the other hand... if we really did disallow for any opinionated discussions then genchat would quickly become a dull place to hangout.
If someone says: "What do you think about this background I made?" Will it all go to hell?

 

[Willem Default]

I think Shive makes a good point, we should be civil with each other (we are all TESTies after all), but that doesn't mean we should need constant supervision and moderation over what we do and say. I get that we're a big org and this is why we're asking these questions now rather than later, but if anyone gets offended they don't have to be involved in the conversation when it gets past their comfort zone. It could be as simple as saying "Ok guys, I disagree/I don't feel comfortable talking about this, so I'm going to move to another channel".

And to be fair, there are only a small group of TEST that are regulars on Mumble anyway, I only go on every now and again to lurk and see what's happening, maybe open a gaming channel, so if the Mumble community grows bigger it's not worth putting all this effort into managing and moderating what everyone says.

There's no place for racism, sure, but politics, history, what you watched last night, how Arsenal always try and walk it in, etc. should all be open topics, even if it gets a little heated. If it gets heated, maybe move it over to a new channel. If it gets past being civil, sure then step in and remind each other we're all pals.

 

[MzHartz]

Also since we are going to have kids and we already have kids in the org or around our listeners, all drug, alcohol, sexual and highly profane conversations should take place in an R-18 channel. In broader terms, don't say stuff in General Chat that you wouldn't say in front of a minor.

Oh please, no... 90% of the stuff I say in Mumble is innuendo. And one of our mottos is 42% more alcohol. I don't think keeping General Chat G rated is a good idea, because I for one, would then never be in it.

I agree with the general Don't Be A Dick rule. If someone is talking about something you don't agree with, like drugs, I think the offended party has the option to say something or move rooms. I don't think asking someone to take a discussion into a different room is out of line.

 

[Arrangingstars]

Oh please, no... 90% of the stuff I say in Mumble is innuendo. And one of our mottos is 42% more alcohol. I don't think keeping General Chat G rated is a good idea, because I for one, would then never be in it.

Yes! I was trying to explain this tonight to people in Mumble when we were chatting about this thread, but it was here and there for some people. I personally don't feel comfortable talking about cracking a beer or asking if anyone wants to have a few drinks tonight and play video games (along with innuendo), if I know there are people less than 16-17 years old in the chat. I just feel I won't be able to 100% be myself. If they have a guardian/parent, who's in the org and frequents Mumble with them, that's different.. but it seems as though everyone agrees the younger people should be held to the same level of maturity the rest of us are. Do I think that will work out in the long run? No, probably not, and I don't want General Chat to be G rated, because like you said, at that point I would never be in there either.

Hopefully, since SC is aimed more at adults, we'll have very few minors who aren't all ready somewhat mature and yes hopefully they'll be able to live up to our level of maturity (which granted, isn't very high lol jk) but yeah. This is something for me I'm hesitant about moving forward as we grow in number and potentially have 100s-1000s of people in Mumble but we'll take it day by day and see how things turn out.

On a different note, as we get larger in Mumble - in the 100s/1000s, we'll have to have multiple "General Chats" and likely more drunk tanks. So, /hopefully/ everyone can find a channel that's just right for them, and if not there's always temporary channels. I'm of the mind that everyone should be able to feel mostly comfortable around eachother though, as long as we have mutual respect for one another and just common courtesy. If things get crazy, that's what private channels and drunk tank are for.

 

[Arrangingstars]

A member approached me and said that they did not think chatting about drugs is okay.
Having a lenient rule-set, I have to ask why is it not okay? When is it excessive? Is all drug chat banned? Should they be moved to Drunk Tank? When should they be moved to Drunk Tank?

I realized I hadn't responded to this yet, and I meant to. Ok, so. In my opinion, if it's an occasional "Brb need to go grab my bong". Sure! See you when you get back! Whatever, no big deal. If it becomes excessive and you hear them doing it over mic, or they begin talking about it non-stop or they start talking about how stoned they are maaaan - that's when it starts to become an issue for me. Not because I judge people for doing it, but because it's just not something that can really induce conversation except with a specific subset of people. In general chat, chat should be.. general!

I think if people are telling a story as well, that can be kind of different. A lot of us have experimented, and probably have hilarious stories. So, saying you saw people who had the body forms of big toes would be something I would consider general, if other people were laughing and having a good time about it and sharing their own experiences. Now, if the story revolves too much around the drug itself and not about the hilarious or scary outcome, then it's really not a story but more of just talking about drugs - which imo isn't that interesting. I'm pretty sure we all know about drugs and what some of their associated side-effects are.

Quick answers: No I don't think drug chat should be banned, but should be talked about with care and not excessively. If the talk becomes excessive, and all they talk about is hitting their bong or dabbing, smoking joints, doing mushrooms or E, what have you, then yes - please take yourself to a different channel or you should be moved.

Examples:

"I'm dabbed out maaan, I just think about pink fluffy unicorns and wonder if they taste like cotton candy. This shit I got today is dope, it's like, premium grade. I am out of my mind right now. Have you ever had a really good dabbed and wondered - why am I not taking another hit? Do any of you smoke pot or dab? Oh man, you should try it it's fantaaastic." - This is what I consider excessive. Leave space for other people to talk or change the conversation. If you're this stoned, they should move themselves out of the channel, or be moved if no one can get a word in edge-wise.

"Hey, I'll be in the game in just a minute, I just need to grab my bong. Brrrrb. Ok, I'm back. Let's play, queue us up!" - This is an acceptable example, at least to me. I find nothing wrong or offensive about this. They're not pushing the conversation of their bong on anyone, or what they're smoking in their bong, and focusing their conversation on hurrying back to their game. To me, it's the same as "Hey, I'm going to go grab a beer or refresh my drink."

"Man, I never should have ever tried mushrooms.. I had the worst experience ever a few years ago, I probably ate too many. I got really bad vertigo and got really anxious.. never again. Well. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe it would be better next time." - This is an acceptable (to me) example of a situation where a conversation gets started about experiences, which focuses on a past event rather than solely on doing the drug at that current state of time. Sometimes these stories can be funny or spark up conversation, but again, in moderation.

 

[mromutt]

I think I summed up my thoughts in mumble to you guys, It would be difficult to reiterate it here especially without the back and forth conversation that brings it out.

 

[Scarthian]

Honestly this is kind of a moot point in my opinion as generally most folks are adults/ old enough to know right from wrong. If one person is going too far without realizing I fully expect someone to say something about it. General Chat is literally that, chatter about general stuff ranging from gaming to life lessons. 9 times out of 10 it is perfectly fine and the 1 time it isn't the situation is handled appropriately. Our current rules are more than sufficient and this does not need to be over analyzed or made overly stricter.

If things are getting out of hand there are plenty of other rooms folks can move or be moved to. If they get upset and kick up a fuss then remind them that they are a functioning human being that's either an adult or close to it rather than the 10 year old Call of Duty kids talking about fucking moms's and dropping the N word cause its 2edgy4u. Our rules are stated openly and I believe they are simple and very open if a person cannot handle the little rules we have that pretty much sum up to being "Don't be a dick" then they get moved to another channel.

I have said it before and I say it again do not get caught up in all this over thinking on whether we should come up with new stricter rules. Its not who we are and I doubt who we ever intend to be. There will always be some issues that pop up with folks pushing the limits but that is exactly what there are Mod/ Officers for. Not to be a helicopter parent or watching over people like wardens but rather just there for the little accidents. Like when the dog pisses on the floor when they know they aren't supposed to so you give them a strong "No" and take them outside to piss and shit all over the place in the appropriate setting.

All in all I think we are in a perfectly fine place, we are open, welcoming and our members are generally good with self moderation. Yes, there will be some hiccups especially with it being a multi national org but there are folks there to handle it. More of the U.N. Peace Keepers rather than Secret Police types.

 

[Myre]

I, for one am a bit [CONCERN]ed about the 13 year old figures being quoted in this thread. Considering what TEST (jokingly or not) stands for; our image naturally attracts an older crowd and we have teachers and other members of society who just want to let their hair down without having to pussyfoot about how they use language. Having younger members will undoubtedly drive these people away.

I can understand <18's being a part of TEST on forums, RSI and in-game since we officially have no requirements for joining (as far as I know), but I personally feel that Mumble and TEST VoIP which is mature by its very nature should be off limits.

At the very least, as a compromise for inclusivity sake since we do have accommodation for public channels within Mumble, perhaps an <18 channel could be made on Mumble and to access Gen and Drunk, they would need mod verification.

 

[Arrangingstars]

Honestly this is kind of a moot point in my opinion as generally most folks are adults/ old enough to know right from wrong. If one person is going too far without realizing I fully expect someone to say something about it. General Chat is literally that, chatter about general stuff ranging from gaming to life lessons. 9 times out of 10 it is perfectly fine and the 1 time it isn't the situation is handled appropriately. Our current rules are more than sufficient and this does not need to be over analyzed or made overly stricter.

I agree. I don't think it needs to be over-analyzed to death. A lot of it is pretty much use your best judgement, don't be a dick, move yourself or get moved. I think there are some valid concerns, and generally good ideas being brought up though. I don't think anything will be anymore strict, just more thought out in case a situation arises and someone has an issue the moderators need to deal with, moreso in the case of when we start getting potentially 100s-1000s of members in Mumble. All in all, I think it'll work out in the end. :)

 

[mromutt]

I agree. I don't think it needs to be over-analyzed to death. A lot of it is pretty much use your best judgement, don't be a dick, move yourself or get moved. I think there are some valid concerns, and generally good ideas being brought up though. I don't think anything will be anymore strict, just more thought out in case a situation arises and someone has an issue the moderators need to deal with, moreso in the case of when we start getting potentially 100s-1000s of members in Mumble. All in all, I think it'll work out in the end. :)

I agree a lot of it should really come down to self discipline and discretion in general chat like you are in public.

 

[Chairman Meow]

Holy crap that was a long trip down that mountain.


In all seriousness though. I said my short part on mumble, Stars has pretty much covered the issue to the T and I cant add anything other than that I agree 100%​

 

[Willem Default]

I, for one am a bit [CONCERN]ed about the 13 year old figures being quoted in this thread. Considering what TEST (jokingly or not) stands for; our image naturally attracts an older crowd and we have teachers and other members of society who just want to let their hair down without having to pussyfoot about how they use language. Having younger members will undoubtedly drive these people away.

I can understand <18's being a part of TEST on forums, RSI and in-game since we officially have no requirements for joining (as far as I know), but I personally feel that Mumble and TEST VoIP which is mature by its very nature should be off limits.

At the very least, as a compromise for inclusivity sake since we do have accommodation for public channels within Mumble, perhaps an <18 channel could be made on Mumble and to access Gen and Drunk, they would need mod verification.

I think this is a good way of handling that. Obviously we're a welcoming org and currently don't have an age limit (AFAIK/remember), but having younger members shouldn't inhibit our ability to be ourselves whether in the forums or on Mumble.

 

[Shutter]

Historical framing, intellectual or ignorant reference points, geographical culture, personal and societal imposed ethics, and all the blah, blah blah, rest. There is no way to avoid offending someone at any particular time over the multitude of topics that may or may not come up.

[ REDACTED to avoid two hour philosophical lecture]

I suggest everyone be automatically moved to their own private channel to avoid offending everyone else. Nuke mumble from space, its the only way to be sure.

 

[Krystal LeChuck]

Historical framing, intellectual or ignorant reference points, geographical culture, personal and societal imposed ethics, and all the blah, blah blah, rest. There is no way to avoid offending someone at any particular time over the multitude of topics that may or may not come up.

[ REDACTED to avoid two hour philosophical lecture]

I suggest everyone be automatically moved to their own private channel to avoid offending everyone else. Nuke mumble from space, its the only way to be sure.

I think we are all carried away from the point here. It is not how to make Mumble the least offensive for everyone, but what things are acceptable (not only as discussion points but also behavioural) in General Chat. I will write down things that I believe should be moderated there.

1. Voice Activated speakers should be Muted by moderators IMMEDIATELY and given a written warning. When they enable PTT then they can message a mod to remove the mute.
2. Hate speech and targeted attacks stuff. For example a picture of a black person in chains, a picture of a guy kicking a pregnant woman with an arrow pointing towards her belly with a "Jewish Baby" sign, a picture making fun of a fellow member. Those should not be allowed in any public channel. If you want to create your own little hate group, go ahead, do it in your own server space.
3. NSFW topics, messages, pics should be away from General Chat and if you HAVE TO post something because someone is pointing a gun at you, put a NSFW tag in front of the post and say it is NSFW in chat.
4. Excessive profanity. People are in chat and have kids, friends, mother-in-law nearby, or they are in public places such as cafes or whatever. Be CONSIDERATE and keep profanities to a minimum. If your mouth resembles a sewage drain you shouldn't open it anyway. No one wants that.
5. Realize that you are speaking to real people. This might be a microphone you are speaking to but there are real people on the other side of the line. Don't be an asshole just because others can't punch you in the face through Mumble.

Those are MY basic rules not just for TEST but for all internet forums I take part in. I generally try to moderate myself with those guidelines and I believe they are a good starting point. If anyone disagrees I'm open for discussion and/or changing some of my ways. If people agree then say so as well.

 

[Tortilla the Hun]

Holy crap that was a long trip down that mountain.
​

Always reminds me of

 

[MzHartz]

Leave space for other people to talk or change the conversation.

I think this is a bigger issue than the rest. The only times I haven't had fun in Mumble is when one person dominates the conversation. I'm sure we all do this at times, but I'll admit, I'm not exactly sure how to politely say, "Hey man, let someone else get a word in, or talk about things that other people want to talk about."

 

[Scarthian]

I think this is a bigger issue than the rest. The only times I haven't had fun in Mumble is when one person dominates the conversation. I'm sure we all do this at times, but I'll admit, I'm not exactly sure how to politely say, "Hey man, let someone else get a word in, or talk about things that other people want to talk about."

I would say just openly say "hey lets change the topic" especially if no one else is engaging the current one that said person is dominating. There is no nice way to basically say "hey buddy we are tired of hearing this crap we talking about something else kthx". There is however, non douchey ways to say it like I said above. It may sound a bit mean but it could be said in worse ways the issue is that you must be willing to say something in the first place. The silent majority will always be ruled by the loud minority unless they actually say something. If that person gets upset or pissy about it then that is up to them. If there is good reason to say something though like I said if they are basically just going on and on without letting anyone actually in on the conversation (which is supposed to be more than one person talking) then you have every right to say something.

Again it all boils down to not being an asshole about things but that doesn't mean people shouldn't step up and say "hey enough is enough". That is what I love about Test every single person has a voice they just must be willing to use it. Granted I am not saying that in the end it comes down to a Mod/ Officer decision if it gets to that point. The fact is though we are pretty good at self moderating and for those who aren't people should say something to check them. If it gets too heated or you are uncomfortable taking that role then you can always feel free to poke any of the Officers/Mods to have them say something if need be.

 

[Willem Default]

There is no nice way to basically say "hey buddy we are tired of hearing this crap we talking about something else kthx". There is however, non douchey ways to say it like I said above.

I'd just say something like, "Oh guys did you hear about [insert relevant topic here]?". Shifts focus and invites multiple viewpoints.