Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread

Bambooza

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All that media that came out "questioning" masks made no sense.

What exactly is the questionable part of wearing a mask?

Why do surgeons wear masks?

Why does your dentist wear a mask?

Why doesn't your doctor just cough into your face?

Wearing a mask stops your breath from flying out all over the place.

It baffles my mind that they did "studies" with video and pictures to show how using a mask prevents your germy breath from traveling across the room when you cough.

Maybe we should fund another $10M study and "research" it a bit more.
Did you not read the quote by Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program? This was posted back in March and the studies I am referring to are not new studies that are politically charged on both sides but ones from years prior. The medical consensuses going into this year was that masks might offer some limited protection but the standard vector for virus transmission has always been touch.

My stance has always been masks do not cause harm and there might be a small reduction in the virus transmission by wearing one. Its not a big deal to wear one so why not. But I do find mostly with in society the wearing of masks is more a physiological one in the perception of safety and I do call into question those who argue their perspective as undebatable.
 

ColdDog

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Back in May this was the consensus... of course the jury is still out on the real impact of masks... but common sense rules the day. By common sense I mean, if you are sitting by yourself 20 ft away from other people outdoors, you should not be arrested for not wearing a mask. That said, just like anything, there are extremes people who do not want to wear masks under any circumstances and those people who want to throw you in jail if you do not wear one. My argument is in the middle, Bambooza seems to be on the side of common sense, and Montoya is dictating.

From May 20th - NIH - This WAS the stance back then...

Panel
Recommendations on face mask use in community settings
WHO
1
• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected SARS-CoV-2 infection.

China 2
• People at moderate risk* of infection: surgical or disposable mask for medical use.
• People at low risk of infection: disposable mask for medical use.
• People at very low risk of infection: do not have to wear a mask or can wear non-medical mask (such as cloth mask).

Hong Kong 3
• Surgical masks can prevent transmission of respiratory viruses from people who are ill. It is essential for people who are symptomatic (even if they have mild symptoms) to wear a surgical mask.
• Wear a surgical mask when taking public transport or staying in crowded places. It is important to wear a mask properly and practice good hand hygiene before wearing and after removing a mask.

Singapore 4
• Wear a mask if you have respiratory symptoms, such as a cough or runny nose.

Japan 5
• The effectiveness of wearing a face mask to protect yourself from contracting viruses is thought to be limited. If you wear a face mask in confined, badly ventilated spaces, it might help avoid catching droplets emitted from others but if you are in an open-air environment, the use of face mask is not very efficient.

USA 6
• Centers for Disease Control and Prevention does not recommend that people who are well wear a face mask (including respirators) to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including COVID-19.
• US Surgeon General urged people on Twitter to stop buying face masks.

UK 7
• Face masks play a very important role in places such as hospitals, but there is very little evidence of widespread benefit for members of the public.

Germany 8
• There is not enough evidence to prove that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduces a healthy person's risk of becoming infected while wearing it. According to WHO, wearing a mask in situations where it is not recommended to do so can create a false sense of security because it might lead to neglecting fundamental hygiene measures, such as proper hand hygiene.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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Back in May this was the consensus... of course the jury is still out on the real impact of masks... but common sense rules the day. By common sense I mean, if you are sitting by yourself 20 ft away from other people outdoors, you should not be arrested for not wearing a mask. That said, just like anything, there are extremes people who do not want to wear masks under any circumstances and those people who want to throw you in jail if you do not wear one. My argument is in the middle, Bambooza seems to be on the side of common sense, and Montoya is dictating.

From May 20th - NIH - This WAS the stance back then...

Panel
Recommendations on face mask use in community settings
WHO
1
• If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected SARS-CoV-2 infection.

China 2
• People at moderate risk* of infection: surgical or disposable mask for medical use.
• People at low risk of infection: disposable mask for medical use.
• People at very low risk of infection: do not have to wear a mask or can wear non-medical mask (such as cloth mask).

Hong Kong 3
• Surgical masks can prevent transmission of respiratory viruses from people who are ill. It is essential for people who are symptomatic (even if they have mild symptoms) to wear a surgical mask.
• Wear a surgical mask when taking public transport or staying in crowded places. It is important to wear a mask properly and practice good hand hygiene before wearing and after removing a mask.

Singapore 4
• Wear a mask if you have respiratory symptoms, such as a cough or runny nose.

Japan 5
• The effectiveness of wearing a face mask to protect yourself from contracting viruses is thought to be limited. If you wear a face mask in confined, badly ventilated spaces, it might help avoid catching droplets emitted from others but if you are in an open-air environment, the use of face mask is not very efficient.

USA 6
• Centers for Disease Control and Prevention does not recommend that people who are well wear a face mask (including respirators) to protect themselves from respiratory diseases, including COVID-19.
• US Surgeon General urged people on Twitter to stop buying face masks.

UK 7
• Face masks play a very important role in places such as hospitals, but there is very little evidence of widespread benefit for members of the public.

Germany 8
• There is not enough evidence to prove that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduces a healthy person's risk of becoming infected while wearing it. According to WHO, wearing a mask in situations where it is not recommended to do so can create a false sense of security because it might lead to neglecting fundamental hygiene measures, such as proper hand hygiene.
And what of the studies in June which I linked to a few posts ago?

And what of the Icelandic findings from April that up to 50% of those infected and spreading are asymptomatic, which lead to requirements that masks be worn by people who do not show symptoms:


 
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Bambooza

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Science - the majesty of which is that, like every species on planet earth, it evolves as time passes.

Quote from March 31st 2020 "There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan

Scientific studies conducted between March 31st 2020 and now:

CNN report June 12th: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/12/health/coronavirus-mask-wellness-trnd/index.html

The Lancet medical journal: June 27th: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

Even Fox News agrees: May 20th 2020: https://www.foxnews.com/health/wearing-face-mask-reduce-coronavirus-transmission-75-percent-study-shows

The above reports, including one from backed the WHO which originally indicated there was no evidence, found evidence to indicates yes, Masks reduce transmission. In march there was no specific evidence. From May going onwards, there was.
Its the timing of the studies that find evidence that masks make a great deal of difference when prior studies over the past decade showed little to no difference. Its all to convenient.

Since seat belts have been brought up as a comparison we can continue to use them as an example. Seat belts work great for restraining occupants from head on collisions but as the crash vectors off the effectiveness of seat belts is reduced until the point were seat belts provided no protection to rear end collisions (this is handled by ones seat) .

As for Masks they do an OK job of trapping cough and sneeze particulate spray if worn properly and are of a small enough mesh. But they do nothing to prevent touch based transmission. Where seat belts protect their passengers in the direction of statistically highest energy collisions, masks do not protect people from the most common vector of transmission.

The best thing one can still do is not touch their mouth and eyes and wash their hands frequently. Masks from a physiological standpoint is very effective but I question current studies recently performed and would like to see more research on the subject. And I am concerned that masks wearing will replace good hygiene practices and lull people into a false sense of security, IE i am wearing a mask so i am safe from the virus. I am also aware that sometimes a false sense of security allows people to go about their days.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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There's a little problem with the date in his post. It's wrong. See yellow highlighted date.

View attachment 18932
Thanks for the correction Vavrik, the study itself may have been from march and published later as they so often are - I'll double check. GIve me a moment, I will review that and get back to the group on this for further discussion.
 
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Montoya

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the standard vector for virus transmission has always been touch.
No shit..

You mean that if you sneeze on the doorknob, and I touch it, then stick my finger in my mouth, I will get sick?

I think the problem here is semantics.

Did anybody here think that wearing a mask makes you immune?

A mask stops most of your germy breath from going into my nose. Its not a hazmat suit, its a mask.

Im having a tough time understanding this tangent we all went on.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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So you agree? Masks work at reducing transmission?
We never said we did not agree... YOU assumed we did.
Then what, exactly, are we talking about?

When the following quote was used it really did give the impression that there was no agreement:

"There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program.

Obviously I have misunderstood your point and angle?
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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There's a little problem with the date in his post. It's wrong. See yellow highlighted date.

View attachment 18932
Thanks for the correction Vavrik, the study itself may have been from march and published later as they so often are - I'll double check. GIve me a moment, I will review that and get back to the group on this for further discussion.
Thanks for the date correction on that linke, Vavrik - having looked it's very interesting it was bought up so early in initial studies.
 
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ColdDog

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Then what, exactly, are we talking about?
For the third time!

No the claim is masks work by Montoya.

Montoya - Masks work, its not a debate.

CD - Negative, masks work most of the time, not all the time. To say all the time is a false statement, just like saying seat belts work all the time.

Bambooza - "There is no specific evidence to suggest that the wearing of masks by the mass population has any potential benefit. In fact, there's some evidence to suggest the opposite in the misuse of wearing a mask properly or fitting it properly," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO health emergencies program.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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For the third time!
Thank you.

As we all agree masks work, there really is nothing to talk about...? As in: No discussion, because there is nothing to be discussed. It's true. Masks work at reducing transmission.

One question: What was the quote from March saying there is no evidence about? I must have misunderstood its use, there has been a wealth of evidence since March...?
 
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PeppaPigKilla

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Thank you.

As we all agree masks work, there really is nothing to talk about...? As in: No discussion, because there is nothing to be discussed. It's true. Masks work at reducing transmission.

One question: What was the quote from March saying there is no evidence about? I must have misunderstood its use, there has been a wealth of evidence since March...?
it was semantics

Work was being seen as a definition of Stops, so masks stop transmissions rather than masks work and work meaning it reduces.

Thats how ive seen these last two pages.
 

NaffNaffBobFace

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it was semantics

Work was being seen as a definition of Stops, so masks stop transmissions rather than masks work and work meaning it reduces.

Thats how ive seen these last two pages.
I must admit do like to explore a topic before drawing a conclusion and I do love to talk to the good people of TEST and understand their angles.

I suppose where I said:
"As we all agree masks work, there really is nothing to talk about...? As in: No discussion debate, because there is nothing to be discussed. It's true. Masks work at reducing transmission."
I really could have wrapped it up with:
"In the words of Montoya: "Masks work, it's not a debate". "

And bought it nicely back round to the original phrase which started it all. Talking is fun!
 

ColdDog

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As we all agree masks work, there really is nothing to talk about...? As in: No discussion, because there is nothing to be discussed. It's true. Masks work at reducing transmission.
Wrong... "No Discussion" implies there are no instances where mask wearing would not be enforced - this is a mandated statement to me. Why is everything always black and white? It is not, and that is why many people can't wrap their head around something like a virus and would choose the one size fits all approach because they are either too lazy or too fearful. Everything in this world is made of 1s and 0s... just depends on the order they are in. So the hex value for 0101 is equal to the decimal value of 257. If we change that value to 1010 we get 4112. So, as you can see they are 0s and 1s, just the order changed and that is why absolutes in a world with viruses do not work. So, no, I do not think the discussion is over until everyone comes back to the middle where common sense lives.
 
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NaffNaffBobFace

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Wrong... "No Discussion" implies there are no instances where mask wearing would not be enforced - this is a mandated statement to me. Why is everything always black and white?
Well, I don't think I have grounds to even attempt to contradict you there. You don't have to wear a mask in your own home sat on your sofa. You wouldn't need to wear a mask stood in the middle of a field in the middle of nowhere especially if you passed no one and were no where.

Let us all live in shades of grey wearing our masks and seat belts where required and not where not.

I do however have to disagree with the whole contradicting the Glorious Leader thing though - It's a personality cult for a reason 'y know. What the Leader says goes!
 

Bambooza

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I do however have to disagree with the whole contradicting the Glorious Leader thing though - It's a personality cult for a reason 'y know. What the Leader says goes!
Lol, i must remember never to be drinking something while reading one of your posts. My life is much richer because of you.
 
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