Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread

[Shadow Reaper]

Bingo. You said it here yourself. We're not VIROLOGISTS, we're not scientists either (maybe you are, I don't know). What we are are a bunch of random dudes shooting the shit on a GAMING website about a subject we don't really understand. 'We're not in a position to accept or deny Andersen's about face' but we're ARE in a position to hear him out. His position (which has remained unchanged for awhile) is that there is not enough evidence to claim that the virus was engineered in a lab. You've taken a position of not believing him.

No. I'm not taking a position on the science at all. I'm saying what Paul Rand said is obviously, objectively true. Fauci claimed before Congress that there was no evidence the virus came from the Wuhan Coronavirus Lab when there was, and that his advisors said it was not engineered, at a time when they had said the precise opposite.

And what about Yan Li-Meng?

Nothing, and neither do you. A bunch of politically based hit pieces is to be expected, especially from the Chinese. The virus did after all ruin our economic recovery immediately after Trump leveled the trade issue with them, and they hate him for it. The theory COVID was intentioned makes perfect sense, but there will never be enough evidence to make an issue of it.

All we know about Yan is she defected over this issue and gave up all contacts with her family, because she believes the Chinese military deliberately loosed this thing. I doubt there will ever be enough evidence to demonstrate that is true, but anyone willing to sacrifice so much to bring us the truth ought to get an ear.

I dunno nothin' 'bout Bannon and can't see tying this to politics as healthy in any way.

You do not have any reasons to disbelieve a credible witness whose specialty is virology, and certainly Fauci lied to Congress and said the opposite of what Andersen had said at the time.

BTW, Fauci's statements that we don't need masks were explained as a lie by him afterward, and justified as necessary so first-responders would have the masks. Like him or not, that is an admission of perjury. Fauci belongs in prison.

Fauci has a cozy administrative position that pays him more than any Congressman, Senator or President, and that fucker lied to everyone paying his salary. Worse though is he lied to Congress and for that he deserves prison time.

Since we're on the subject, lets avoid any political opinion and ask an even simpler question than these above. Why were we sending money to China to do gain of function research at all? It is deemed too dangerous for us to do. China has almost no experience running level 4 biolabs. It has obvious bio-weapon applications. Both DoD and NASA are banned by Congress from participating in any collaborations with the Chinese as result of all their terribly successful espionage.

Just FYI, the Chinese have stolen hundreds of defense and aerospace IPs from us. Just ten years ago they hacked the mainframe at NASA'a Jet Propulsion Lab and stole plans for our F-35 stealth fighter, upon which they based their J-2 long range stealth interceptor. Why would we give research dynamics necessary to making bio-weapons to China?

Fauci is the guy who signed off on that.

 

[Aramsolari]

Nothing, and neither do you. A bunch of politically based hit pieces is to be expected, especially from the Chinese.

Ah yes....hit pieces from renowned Chinese media sites like CNN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, and lol National Geographic. Liberal? Sure...first time I've seen them called Chinese though lol. Honestly the only one on that list to would make it is the South China Morning Post but even those guys are based in Hong Kong and still retain some Journalistic independence.

The virus did after all ruin our economic recovery immediately after Trump leveled the trade issue with them, and they hate him for it. The theory COVID was intentioned makes perfect sense, but there will never be enough evidence to make an issue of it.

Let me let you in on a little secret. Despite public condemnations of Trump and the short term economic hit China suffered, Beijing was actually sad to see Trump go. Whether it was scrapping the Trans Pacific Pact altogether or military withdrawals from the region, the Trump administration has actually weakened America's standing on the world stage and left a power vacuum for China to fill. Traditional allies like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan were left confused and somewhat betrayed. The region where my family is from (Singapore/Malaysia) is fearful of what America's withdrawal may mean to the security of that region. Even domestically, Trump has emboldened Xi Jingping. Trump has demonstrated to the Chinese people (so the narrative goes in the Chinese media) that the American system represents chaos and order. The word 乱 (luàn/chaos) is a frightening word if you've studied Chinese history. The phrase 国家昏乱 (Guójiā hūnluàn/national chaos) is something that causes nightmares to 老百姓 (Lǎobǎixìng/commoners). This 'chaos' is what causes them to throw in their lot with the Chinese government. Sorry Benjamin....the Chinese are more than happy to give up liberty for security.

All we know about Yan is she defected over this issue and gave up all contacts with her family, because she believes the Chinese military deliberately loosed this thing. I doubt there will ever be enough evidence to demonstrate that is true, but anyone willing to sacrifice so much to bring us the truth ought to get an ear.

Sure anyone willing to sacrifice so much is worth an ear but having heard her, I've concluded that she's not to be trusted. Alright she believes the 'Chinese military deliberately loosed this thing', you know what? I believe I'll be a billionaire one day, doesn't mean it's gonna happen through. The simple fact is that her story is leaky beyond belief and her association with people like Steve Bannon tarnishes her reputation. A simple google search turns up tons of articles scientific and otherwise that throw serious shade on her story.

I dunno nothin' 'bout Bannon and can't see tying this to politics as healthy in any way.

Dude....you tied this all to politics on the get go. Guys like Steve Bannon are at the forefront of Covid misinformation along with media organizations he's associated with like Breitbart. Don't take the easy way out by saying now (after you've trashed Fauci, the CDC, the DOJ, etc, etc) that 'tying this to politics' isn't healthy.

You do not have any reasons to disbelieve a credible witness whose specialty is virology

Actually I do, especially when accredited scientific organizations have provided evidence that she's a hack. I mean it's all too perfect isn't it? Steve Bannon pulls out a Chinese 'Expert in Virology' out of his hat, has her go on Fox News, Newsmax, etc. and suddenly she's the missing link to the entire conspiracy. Hey maybe you're right, she's Deep Throat and Red China bad but you know what? I'll bet money she's not and will probably vanish when Fox and Friends move on to the next big story. Either way, we'll see won't we?

Fauci has a cozy administrative position that pays him more than any Congressman, Senator or President, and that fucker lied to everyone paying his salary. Worse though is he lied to Congress and for that he deserves prison time.

The man's in his 80s with a lifetime of service to his Nation. He's an acclaimed scientist, academic, and public servant and is probably pretty comfortable financially. He's been serving in a medical capacity for 50 years and has advised Presidents since Ronald Reagan. I really doubt he's in it for the money. Hell why the hell would he throw it all away for money? And helping the Chinese? Christ if I were him I'll be throwing out libel lawsuits left and right like goddamn Captain America's shield.

Perhaps he's made some mistakes early on during the pandemic but I doubt it's out of malice or worse....disloyalty. What absolutely infuriates me are people who are implying that he's somehow betrayed his country.

Sometimes I do wish he would step down and retire....if only to save himself from the relentless character assaults by a segment of the population who's either too ignorant or brainwashed by right wing talking heads to see that he's simply trying to...do...the...right...thing.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

I'm sorry but it seem obvious we cannot have an intelligent and honest conversation on this topic. You are not able. Your politics bias every bit of evidence and you can't see straight. I think we need to end here. None of what you wrote is worthy of response except to say YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND.

Trump stops China ripping us off for $500B/year and they like that. You're nutz.

 

[Aramsolari]

I'm sorry but it seem obviious we cannot have an intelligent and honest conversation on this topic. You are not able. Your politics bias every bit of evidence and you can't see straight. I think we need to end here. None of what you wrote is worthy of response except to say YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND.

Pity. I do relish a good conversation.

I'm quite sane though. At least the voices in my head tell me that.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

It's not a good conversation. You think you're winning points in some contest when you constantly redirect to irrelevant issues. I'm unimpressed.

I'm a philosopher by training. When I see a logical fallacy here or there I ignore it. When I see pages of distraction techniques I see someone with no interest in the truth, which means conversation with you is not worth anyone's time.

 

[Aramsolari]

It's not a good conversation. You think you're winning points in some contest when you constantly redirect to irrelevant issues. I'm unimpressed.

I'm a philosopher by training. When I see a logical fallacy here or there I ignore it. When I see pages of distraction techniques I see someone with no interest in the truth, which means conversation with you is not worth anyone's time.

If you're a philosopher by training you'll forgive me by pointing out that you've committed a basic rhetorical diversion on your part as well....that of Ad Hominem. You lost your cool and directly attacked my sanity. I'm not a philosopher by training though I do have a training in the Liberal Arts and I can identify that at least. Folks who know me here know I work on mediocre television shows and I've never presented myself to be more than that. My work hours are long and I mix it up with gaming and shooting the shit on communities like Test. As for me not addressing all your points, well...there's only so much one can do while typing away at 3am. If you're somehow offended or think I'm trying to distract....well that's on you. I think the points and links I've addressed are relevant, you think they're not. C'est la vie.

I've been back and forth on this thread since March of 2020...right at the start of this whole ugly business of Covid19. I've locked horns with Bambooza (who I don't always agree with, usually lose to, but deeply respect) and Colddog (Who I never agree with, quarreled a bit, but made peace afterwards). This is the FIRST time since I've started participating in this thread that someone has come along and threw out the bath water completely when they've disagreed with me.

The simple fact is, I'll continue to participate in this thread (because it is important to me if you know my personal circumstances) whether you like it or not. What say we be civil to each other, agree to disagree, and politely ignore each other's posts? That or Montoya comes along and shuts us all down and then we'll all be sad pandas. Whatever it may be, I wish you all the best.

Also I am a proud member of the NaffNaffBobFace appreciation club. We love you Bob!

 

[Shadow Reaper]

It's not that I disagree with you. It's that you lack honest intention. You continually go off discussion and we're just talking past each other. You realize as soon as Montoya reads this, he's going to close it down because you deliberately made it into a liberal rant. I don't appreciate it and neither will he.

I do not see honesty in your posts. I see a rather childish need to argue, no interest in the truth and a self-agrandizing manner.

Face it, Fauci is a dick. Forget what your chosen propaganda teaches. I explained how he is a dick half a dozen different ways. He is obviously guilty of perjury and belongs in prison. People who lie to you and me and an entire nation for self-interested reasons are NOT good people. How can we even be having this discussion? Oh, I forgot. You're the guy who convinced himself China likes Trump.

You'll believe just anything, and really that's not worth my time at the keyboard. Please feel insulted.

 

[Aramsolari]

It's not that I disagree with you. It's that you lack honest intention. You continually go off discussion and we're just talking past each other. You realize as soon as Montoya reads this, he's going to close it down because you deliberately made it into a liberal rant. I don't appreciate it and neither will he.

I do not see honesty in your posts. I see a rather childish need to argue, no interest in the truth and a self-agrandizing manner.

Face it, Fauci is a dick. Forget what your chosen propaganda teaches. I explained how he is a dick half a dozen different ways. He is obviously guilty of perjury and belongs in prison. People who lie to you and me and an entire nation for self-interested reasons are NOT good people. How can we even be having this discussion? Oh, I forgot. You're the guy who convinced himself China likes Trump.

You'll believe just anything, and really that's not worth my time at the keyboard. Please feel insulted.

Actually I do have an interest in the truth. I've read some of the stuff you've linked and well, I simply don't agree with either the story or the source itself. The fundamental problem is that we're consuming different news sources and probably live in very different environments. It's like we're reading two very different religious texts, we can never really agree that way. For me I've decided very early on that certain news sources are either flat out propaganda (Brietbart, Newsmax, Epoch Times) or generally untruthful (Fox News). I suppose you probably think the same way of sources you deem Liberal. I suppose what's really sad is that this little online spat is happening throughout the country. Imagine this happening in households and families everywhere. We really need to come together when all this is over.

I'm not really insulted to be honest. I'm more disappointed you're throwing the ball aside and going home. Oh well....it's 4am and I'll check in tomorrow. Goodnight.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

The fundamental problem is that we're consuming different news sources. . .

That is a very small part of the problem. I deal with people brainwashed by their propaganda often. Just because their news has rendered them mindless sheeple does not mean they can't reason like adults. You however are proof aganst all fact, truth and reason. You are not honest. How many examples of Fauci lying do you need before you can stop telling us he's a great guy we should believe?

He lied about the masks. He lied about the expert testimony he had concerning the origins of the virus. He lied three of the four times he spoke about the percent of the population needed to meet herd immunity. He lied about the lies multiple times to Congress. He lied about the definition of "gain of function". He tried to gaslight Rand Paul by saying he didn't know what the term means, when the term is completely self-explanatory, and Paul was quoting the CDC definition. He cheerfully admitted he lies because people won't do what he tells them to unless he lies to them.

Now the original question when this came up was, why do we have 6% tried and true anti-vaxers who won't immunize their kids against childhood diseases, 25% who won't take the flu shot, and 50% who won't take the COVID vaccine? I posited that the difference may be because:

a) the COVID shot is not FDA approved
b) the COVID manufacturers have all been granted indemnity and victims of it can't sue anyone
c) no one trusts Fauci because he is a lying piece of shit

I think it's all three and you want to argue Fauci's a nice guy because he's had the job for 40 years.

You understand, the difference here is not we have different news sources. It's that realities like this don't work with the pathetic narrative your propaganda teaches you. There isn't actually any doubt about any of these claims. The problem is, your propaganda sources have taught you that the proper answer is to say Fauci is a great guy who has done great work for 40 years, despite he is obviously a perjurer who needs to go to prison, and you have no fucking idea what he has done the last 40 years. All you know about Fauci is he is a lying piece of shit.

 

[Vavrik]

Cough. Can we just take this conversation back to COVID?

 

[Bambooza]

What's happening right now is truly a pandemic of the unvaccinated. We still have the odd outbreak here and there throughout the country but it's limited to communities that have vaccine hesitation. What's unfortunate is that we may be heading towards a new Delta variant wave and it's largely propelled by the unvaccinated.

Sort of. I am sure there are a number of vaccinated that are also infected given some of the mandatory testings have shown those who are vaccinated can also be infected but often they show little to no symptoms. And given most who go get tested are voluntary testing because they are showing symptoms it's not surprising the results are showing a heavier leaning towards the unvaccinated.

Anyway perhaps something will come along and bite my smug, vaccinated Canadian ass. Perhaps Bill Gates will flick on the mind control switch and we'll all turn into liberal, woke Communist Zombies. More likely though, mutations of Covid like the Delta variant will render our vaccines ineffective and that's what I'm afraid of.

You know what? I'll take my chances, stick with my shots, and cross that bridge when I get to it.

This would honestly be rather entertaining. Maybe someone will write a screenplay for it and turn it into a blockbuster hit of the summer.

But in all truthfulness, the vast majority of those under the age of 60 will walk away with no long-term consequences of having covid. I know people like to point towards the edge cases but that's ignoring the satistical probability that the vast majority will end up with mild to moderate cold symptoms and within a month are back to normal. Most people only experience with a severe cold is the yearly influenza that knocks them down for a day or two and so this variant of Coronavirus due to the lag time in an immune response typically ends in more severe symptoms. The only advantage the immunization provides is a far quicker immune response and thus a smaller viral load to deal with and thus a far milder symptom.

The best way to look at it is that the vaccine is a shortcut. It allows your body to treat this strain and the subsequent sub-strains like the common cold and thus you do not get the more severe initial reaction with a higher chance of long-term complications and death.

Above all, we really need to take a step back and remind ourselves that the Coronavirus which Covid19 is a part of has been around since the dawn of humanity and we currently lack the means to eliminate it. In fact, every one of us has been infected by a coronavirus multiple times over our lifetime and while it's not as common as influenza (which is why it typically generates a more severe symptom) it's not a civilization-ending plague.

It shows that the Herd Immunity dream is still just a dream. The idea was you hit 70% vaccinated who can't harbour the infection and it runs out of easy routes to infect vulnerable people who can't/won't get vaccinated and the epidemic in that area cannot continue, there is an immune wall which it cannot pass - but that doesn't exist if the vaccinated are still passing it on to and between each other just as easily as the unvaccinated, although it is not seriously harming those who get it, they are still getting it and passing it on, until it hits someone it can harm.

It's great people are not getting seriously sick or dying, however the pandemic is not going to become manageable until transmission can be severed. Delta found a way around that which some other variants hadn't. I believe the next generation of vaccines will be made more Delta-centric and immune response will be modified.

What would be a true end goal for you? When does it become no longer a pandemic?

So, my rational thought process was:
a. There is a highly contagious disease "in the wild";
b. based on previous experience, most cases of the disease get reported 2-3 weeks after the person was first infected;
c. July 4th (big holiday in the US) + 3 weeks = July 25th
so hey, let's see what direction cases are going?

Add the the above:
d. There is a *new* mutation of the virus;
e. This virus is even more contagious/transmissable than the original virus;
f. Huge numbers of people in certain states have *NOT* gotten vaccinated;
g. Because of various cognitive errors, mask wearing and other precautions have been thrown by the wayside; &
h. Large percentages of the population are both i) at risk & ii) engaging in high risk behaviors,

therefore, it seemed reasonable to expect that certain locations would be likely to experience outbreaks. So, it seemed like a good time to look at the data!

You are right that others may be trying to twist the data certain ways, but nothing beats have a hypothesis AND a mechanism of action.


And here is a check up one week later:
here is Alabama...which way is this going?
View attachment 21118

A news report stated that Vermont was "the most vaccinated state" with an overall percentage of around 67% of the population vaccinated.
How are they doing?
View attachment 21119

If there is any saving grace, a year later, it is that the hospital ICU treatment has gotten much better, and deaths have dropped off. However, if the ICU is full, and you can't get that treatment, you are going to be in a tough spot.

Here is the best opinion piece I've read recently:

ER Doctor: 'What a senseless, self-inflicted wound' | CNN

Alex Busko, sharing what he's seen as unvaccinated patients get admitted into the hospital with Covid-19 complications, writes that he lost count of how many young healthy Covid-19 patients he cared for in the emergency room who just never imagined that they -- of all people -- could become...

www.cnn.com

And let's look at the number of deaths.

Its still very flat.

Vermont population 623,251
Alabama population 4,934,193

This means that Alabama's population is 8 times Vermonts so that puts their daily death count with in satistical similarity.

So the data is starting to show (while I'd still like to wait another week) that the death rate is no longer following the infection rate and that as more people gain immunity (its such a false word) by vacination or having the virus prior, the number of people who are currently sick no longer translate to a higher risk of death. And that the Infection Fatality Ratio is on the decline and hopefuly will be back at the prior seasonal flu IFR of 1.8.

 

[Aramsolari]

Cough. Can we just take this conversation back to COVID?

Fine by me man. I’m sorry we got derailed.

Psst…that guy really really hates Fauci.

 

[Bambooza]

The simple FACT is that as long as you're fully vaccinated, you'll less likely to get seriously ill and die from the virus. Yes you can still contract it but you'll less likely to require hospitalization.

This is a great statement and really should be at the front of the push. Want to reduce your chances of getting seriously ill and die from Covid19, get the shot. Otherwise, roll the dice and see if you're feeling lucky.

 

[Bambooza]

Fine by me man. I’m sorry we got derailed.

Psst…that guy really really hates Fauci.

I honestly was glad to see the debate and I am honestly thrilled by how mostly civil both sides were to each other. Especially how tribal and emotionally charged Covid19 has become which is a shame as there is no one best answer and there needs to be flexibility and understanding.

As for Dr Faccui I think he is a good scientist who is also political and like any director or above in scientific indevours there is a compromise on the pure scientific pursuit for political ends. Often times it's a necessary evil as it allows for continued funding for scientific advancements but it also leads to a lot of gatekeeping and propagation of inaccurate conclusions. I honestly don't envy the position Faccui was in where he is expected to know the best course of action and is not allowed to say I don't know let's do a three-year study. But there is also an understanding that these positions of power like any political position require a lot of compromises and political conveniences with the truth. After all, is entertaining watching political adversaries attempt to verbally get the upper hand on each other in the public arena. So should Dr Faccui have known what was happening with the funding he allocated to Wuhan? Indeed as it was ultimately his responsibility but we know he had subordinates handle the task. The research being done at Wuhan on SAR's was important. If the escaped variant was enhanced by humans in their pursuit of finding a way to understand its parts we may never know. Should we blame Dr Faccui for funding the research that possibly lead to Covid19?

 

[Aramsolari]

I honestly was glad to see the debate and I am honestly thrilled by how mostly civil both sides were to each other. Especially how tribal and emotionally charged Covid19 has become which is a shame as there is no one best answer and there needs to be flexibility and understanding.

As for Dr Faccui I think he is a good scientist who is also political and like any director or above in scientific indevours there is a compromise on the pure scientific pursuit for political ends. Often times it's a necessary evil as it allows for continued funding for scientific advancements but it also leads to a lot of gatekeeping and propagation of inaccurate conclusions. I honestly don't envy the position Faccui was in where he is expected to know the best course of action and is not allowed to say I don't know let's do a three-year study. But there is also an understanding that these positions of power like any political position require a lot of compromises and political conveniences with the truth. After all, is entertaining watching political adversaries attempt to verbally get the upper hand on each other in the public arena. So should Dr Faccui have known what was happening with the funding he allocated to Wuhan? Indeed as it was ultimately his responsibility but we know he had subordinates handle the task. The research being done at Wuhan on SAR's was important. If the escaped variant was enhanced by humans in their pursuit of finding a way to understand its parts we may never know. Should we blame Dr Faccui for funding the research that possibly lead to Covid19?

Thanks for always being the calm, rational mind in these discussions, Bambooza. It means a lot to many of us here.

Covid19 has certainly become very tribal and emotionally charged. I really hate how people are divided into camps now with even something as simple as wearing a mask in public being points of conflict.

Yeah I don't envy Fauci at all. He's stuck in a rock and a hard place. Don't fund the research and face walking into a new disease completely blind or fund it an potentially creating it in the first place? I do credit him with successfully navigating (relatively so anyway) us through earlier pandemics like SARS or epidemics like Ebola. Is he operating fast and loose with the truth? That really isn't up to us to decide and certainly not the media. It's up to elected officials to hold him and his institution accountable.

At the most, he's guilty of negligence. Even then I really think it's extremely unfair to throw him under a bus and label him a criminal

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

I agree with that in general, but with a few provisos.

We don't know how many people have immunity because we don't have a good idea how many have had the disease. 50% have been immunized, but they can still carry and transmit covid in any variant. Those who have had the disease can carry and transmit it as well. There are no figures as to what percent fit these categories. Everyone who has had the disease or the vaccination can carry the disease but we don't know how virulent they're likley to be (how MUCH virus in them) which is squarely on the shoulders of CDC. We need that answer and haven't got it.

Do I think this is bad news? Yeah. Seems serious to me. However, we need to keep in mind that extreme measures were pitched to the country based upon the need to "flatten the curve" so hospitals won't be overwhelmed, and that appears long ago accomplished. Swapping the discussion from keeping hospital beds available to holding back raw numbers we don't have good analysis on is slight of hand.

I know too many people who have had their busineses destroyed, decades of work all washed away; because we chose to isolate everyone instead of just those at greatest risk. I dunno if you're from The States, but we actually had moron Governors force nursing homes to admit covid positive people, and thus killed thousands of our elderly, all while dropping draconian meaures on the average person who was never at serious risk. Recall, this disease almost never kills healthy people, kids, etc. So before we again look to lock down (which is now the next step and sources inside the White House say they want a manditory lockdown by Novermber), we really need to look carefully at the cost.

My sister in law is a clinician who works with the elderly population, people with depression, etc., and she says the numbers have been through the roof for over a year now. What good is destroying Mom and Pop busineses if we lose more people to suicide? Sure, if you own Walmart or Amazon stocks may seem great, but most people in the US are employed by small businesses, and knee jerk reactions are killing those businessses.

I am thus not going to be for a new lockdown no matter the numbers. Sweden did fine without a lockdown.

Huge thanks for explaining your viewpoint while taking mine into account, appreciate it and feel I do understand your angle a lot more. I'm in the UK where the government took a different approach, they basically put the country into suspended animation with Furlough to shelve workers and a fund to support almost all businesses while they were mandatorily closed for the lockdowns.

Recovering won't be easy, but we had a very important driver of the need to break lockdown taken care of for us: putting food on the table and paying the bills. We were not covered 100% but we were for the most part covered enough.

I assume that's why I'm not as passionate about the livelihoods angle - where I am that was for a large part not a factor of my pandemic expiriance, and I was furloughed for two months. If that hadn't been there, I and most of my colleagues would have been let go so I hope I do understand your frustrations at seeing those around you so threatened by the return of measures that on the surface seem unnecessary, at the say of what appears to be just one man.

If I have inerpreted correctly, I have no further questions. If I haven't, please do let me know :)

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

What would be a true end goal for you? When does it become no longer a pandemic?

To me it's no longer a pandemic when the world reaches the originally stated goal from pretty much every country going: To attain a level of immunity in the population with enough people who are resistant to the virus to be able to stop it from propagating through the population to the vulnerable. That isn't enough people who don't get sick from the virus, that's enough people who are unable to harbour it within themselves as their immune response suppresses it so they don't pass it on to other people.

Hurd Immunity.

It was an assumption or perhaps even a myth to begin with as no one knew enough about COVID-19 to know if that was even possible but my countries government believed in it so hard they intended to let the pandemic sweep through the population naturally and only do enough to stop the National Health Service from being overwealmed. The "Take it on the chin" early proposition. They only backtracked on that because the optics were poo and even started insisting it was never the plan in the first place, but then from the history of the following response did it anyway and then had to instil lockdown after lockdown as it became clear the health service was close to being overwealmed over and over again.

Can vaccines attain that reisitance? I think so, the first generation of shots was just Round One of the bout. Once adequate therapeutics are created it'll be a matter of take this course of pills and that's that. Once the Bubonic Plague was a death sentence, now it's little more than a course of antibiotics.

COVID-19 may one day be one of the things you take a Lemsip for. Until that time, we've got to modify our behaviour or reap the consequences - Delta is one of those consequences.

 

[Bambooza]

To me it's no longer a pandemic when the world reaches the originally stated goal from pretty much every country going: To attain a level of immunity in the population with enough people who are resistant to the virus to be able to stop it from propagating through the population to the vulnerable. That isn't enough people who don't get sick from the virus, that's enough people who are unable to harbour it within themselves as their immune response suppresses it so they don't pass it on to other people.

Hurd Immunity.

It was an assumption or perhaps even a myth to begin with as no one knew enough about COVID-19 to know if that was even possible but my countries government believed in it so hard they intended to let the pandemic sweep through the population naturally and only do enough to stop the National Health Service from being overwealmed. The "Take it on the chin" early proposition. They only backtracked on that because the optics were poo and even started insisting it was never the plan in the first place, but then from the history of the following response did it anyway and then had to instil lockdown after lockdown as it became clear the health service was close to being overwealmed over and over again.

Can vaccines attain that reisitance? I think so, the first generation of shots was just Round One of the bout. Once adequate therapeutics are created it'll be a matter of take this course of pills and that's that. Once the Bubonic Plague was a death sentence, now it's little more than a course of antibiotics.

COVID-19 may one day be one of the things you take a Lemsip for. Until that time, we've got to modify our behaviour or reap the consequences - Delta is one of those consequences.

So you are suggesting it's possible to remove the corona virus from the human population or just specifically the novel strain sars-cov-2 and its multitude of varients?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

So you are suggesting it's possible to remove the corona virus from the human population or just specifically the novel strain sars-cov-2 and its multitude of varients?

Nope. I'm suggesting that the goal most of the world was/is aiming for should not be abandoned and forgotten about just because individually a person can be individually safe if they have been vaccinated but remain a risk to others.

 

[Aramsolari]

To me it's no longer a pandemic when the world reaches the originally stated goal from pretty much every country going: To attain a level of immunity in the population with enough people who are resistant to the virus to be able to stop it from propagating through the population to the vulnerable. That isn't enough people who don't get sick from the virus, that's enough people who are unable to harbour it within themselves as their immune response suppresses it so they don't pass it on to other people.

Can vaccines attain that reisitance? I think so, the first generation of shots was just Round One of the bout. Once adequate therapeutics are created it'll be a matter of take this course of pills and that's that. Once the Bubonic Plague was a death sentence, now it's little more than a course of antibiotics.

COVID-19 may one day be one of the things you take a Lemsip for. Until that time, we've got to modify our behaviour or reap the consequences - Delta is one of those consequences.

I think Covid19 is here to stay, it'll be a matter of us living with it. Previous versions of Coronaviruses like SARS and MERS came and went. Covid19 and it's variants aren't necessarily deadlier but they're certainly much more transmissible. I doubt it'll disappear anytime soon.

I think in time people will just have to 'get on with it'. Things probably won't get back to normal anytime soon though. Vaccines will certainly remain useful (albeit contentious) and people will continue to wear masks (whether it's effective or not).

My hope is that medical technologies in the pipeline will make vaccines easier to administer. There's some promise that it can be inhaled or taken in pill form. It'll certainly make things easier for people who have a phobia for needles.