A bit of sad news this morning. CrashTD lost his father to COVID complications this morning. He was fighting for a while, was in ICU, got off intubation but too much damage was already done. Our thoughts with you!
Coronavirus COVID-19 Thread
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You shouldn't, but the issue comes in with the prevention of multifamily houses in the general area so that there becomes a significant scarcity of places to live. On top of that artificial limitations on market adjustment in regards to price-fixing in the form of yearly adjustment percent increases (how much the government can increase the value of the land yearly thus how much taxes are owed is decoupled from the market value of the land, rent control etc) while it prevents people from being priced out of their home it also prevents the market from correctly adjusting to the demand and allowing for significant inflation of housing caused by artificial scarcity.
That's why we drink more alcohol.
Correct lots of country's economies were indeed on the verge of crashing prior to covid and so it did not take much to crash them, and even those that were not given the dynamics of a global economy will get pulled down with everyone else. There are lots of things that go into some of the topics you have touched on and the end result is a lot of speculation and economists attempting to explain how things work with their own crafted models.
While you are correct that there is a great deal of class warfare (well more just two classes anymore) there is also a generational stratification that I was attempting to showcase as it tied back into the conversation about covid and the repercussions on the younger generations for the benefit of the older generations as pointed out by @ColdDog. While I do not think that those unable to contribute to a country's GDP should be fed to the wolves there is something to be said that they also shouldn't be treated like kings on the back of their children.
While this is an interesting topic I would suggest it would be more beneficial to split it off into its own thread if there is any interests.
minor_accident
Vice Admiral
A separate thread to discuss and debate the debt-based monetary system, and socio-fiscal policy? Count me in!!! 
Super interesting to see the 2021 data and '19 ranking in thr top 5 for 15 to 24 year olds and every age group afer that, was not expecting.
Rise in indirext deaths was expected as the health systems struggled to cope and COVID deaths may have been attributed to other illnesses.
I presume critics could just claim prexisting conditions were the major factor especially in the yoingest age groups and they would have died anyway as the article does not mention it?
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Scincerest condolences to CrashTD, friends and family.
Thanks for your expiriance, hope those Long effects lift soon and glad to hear they are not more impactful.
I don't believe those two years are unrecoverable however do understand why consensus is that they are. But I say not in todays era. The early 1900's and the 40's, no they didnt have the infrastructure but since the 2000's we are living in the Information Age and we have the tools to make sure the impact is minimised. It'll just take time (proably more than 2 years) and a little money to run the programmes and that lifetime impact can be negated. We just have to actually do it.
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Radegast74
Space Marshal
That's very sad news. Also want to wish my condolences to Crash & his family.
Anecdotally, I've known more friends/co-workers to have COVID in the last month than at any other time. I'm a nerd, and don't have many friends, and my friends probably aren't representative of the population at large...but I do hope people are careful out there! I think the biggest problem right now is complacency...the new BA4 & BA5 variants are highly (!!) transmissible, and starting to become the dominant strain. Wearing a mask is definitely not a bad idea!
Yes (stop). There are certain things in life you can't take back and one of them is your experience as a child. These experiences define who you are later in life. You learn how to communicate, love, critically think. This is human development and it has been this way 200,000 years. In the past 40 years, of those 200k, we have had computers, game consoles, and smart phones - technology improving at a log rhythmic rate. Do you honestly think this is normal to have a child isolated behind a computer all day? I would say no, its not. Kids should be out playing basketball with their friends and learning history from their teachers with their friends around for support. Not in some inhumane isolated environment. People have not evolved to handle this mentally yet (isolation with computers). So, I say, progress is coming fast, faster than we can biologically evolve. We have been taught to take the easy way and we have machines do our work for us, but human biology does not change as fast as technology. So, I say, we're going to have a generation of children to be adults with serious problems. This is already evidenced by the suicide and crime rates.
Look, I lost my father when I was 5. I grew up dirt poor in a rented trailer. I learned from my peers how to act (still working on that part) and what to do. I went to the military right out of high school, all my friends went to college. I followed their lead and here I am, doing pretty well as another over educated dummy and raising my family the best I can. Just because you took a different path does not mean it is the best path - there are many paths... but children need stability (proven fact).
My best friend, his daughter was so distraught by losing her senior year of high school/friends that she tried to kill herself last summer - she was so depressed she got caught up in drugs and the wrong crowd during the lockdown. She was an A+ student, headed to an academy and went sideways. Second, I lost my cousin to a fentanyl overdose... so, I think I have seen this misery up close and personal.
I blame society, and yes, I think the worst is yet to come - a bunch of unsocialized people entering a world that is chaotic where there are no rules... math is not math, history is not history... what the hell does this do to a person who already has no foundation? I'm not a psychologist but I am pretty sure the answer to my question is pretty bad.
Speaking of 2 years, after being careful and socially distant since Rona started AND getting my 3 Biontech-Pokes, I am nevertheless now part of the German Rona Statistics.
No matter what you do, no matter how careful you are, it WILL get you at some point.
Back to bed for me, good night.
No matter what you do, no matter how careful you are, it WILL get you at some point.
Back to bed for me, good night.
My wife came down with COVID last Friday... so, here we are again. 2nd or 3rd time for me, even with the vaccinations. I'm use to it at this point.
Thanks for letting us know, take care and have a good time catching up with your TV shows!
Indeed people are becoming complacent and returning to their regularly scheduled lives, it's also why covid really is no longer showcased in the media and has become more background noise. As I have said since the beginning this virus while elevated over the common cold will become just one more of the seasonal flu we live with and while I am still shocked at the herculean effort that went into global lockdowns and other efforts to try and curb the spread of the virus to questionable effect we are now just starting to see the costs we will have on our lives for years to come.
But I have little hope the lessons have been learned as short-mindedness seems to be the common rule, For instance, how quickly here in the USA people blame Biden for the current gas prices, and while he had limited responsibility for it as it was mostly a ramification of the prior years over surplus and issues with finding places to store the crude, its still sad to see him trying to blame it on Russia.
I still would like to see studies that look at the data and show if the lockdowns did anything and if mask-wearing really has any impact in the wild on virus spreading rates. The other question is if it does, is that a good thing or does it just prolong the situation and hampers society's economic future. We have already seen the impacts on children living in sterile environments and the repercussions of communities not being exposed to global viruses when a virus does show up.
This is not to downplay the sadness and pain this strain of covid brought, but to ask the question. Did we do more harm than good with our actions over the past few years, would it have been better to have done nothing at all? Was there any improvement in the outcome or would it simply have played out the same way no matter what we did or did not do?
This data has been out for a long time already, just look at Australia which had some of the toughest lock downs. Care to guess what dates the lock downs happened and when they were lifted? Its not rocket science. The less large scale interactions, the less spread, the less infections, the less deaths.
You are glossing over how easy omicron was to spread and how many countries with and without mask mandates and social distancing all had significant bumps at the same time. This graph even if not taking into account different strains also ask the question if Australias lockdowns did anything or if it simply pushed the infection down the road as it seems as soon as the last lockdown ended they spiked while other countries have shown a tapering off over the same time period.
Even when we take a look at other southern hemisphere countries due to cold weather seems to increase virus loading we see the same general trend.
From this one could easily say that lockdowns do not protect the population simply delay it. I am sure there is far more to the story, but the question still stands do masks work? Lockdowns as shown by Australia do in fact work at slowing down/preventing the spread (at what costs) but cannot be kept up indefinitely which seems to be required as the graph by @Montoya shows as soon as the lockdowns end the spread of the virus and death counts trend upwards. So while it can be said lockdowns work in the short term they do nothing to reduce the total deaths due to covid just delay when it happens.
A timeline of Covid-19 in Australia in wake of grim milestone
The first Covid-19 case was diagnosed in Australia on January 25, 2020. Just over two years later, more than 10,000 people have died.
www.timeout.com
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And you are glossing over several things as well. You can't be selective in your argument and not allow selectivity from others.
You are also wrong about the purpose of wearing a mask. Do you remember what that was for? Apparently not from recent comments... but I think you actually do know. You're just not discussing it because it does not match your narrative.
If the argument is "masks do nothing" the I will refer you to my sister who works at an airline. Soon as they dropped mask requirements, a huge number of flight attendants started catching covid to the point that they were getting short staffed. Im not sure how this is even a debate.
Anything that stops your cough and spit from flying into my face will be helpful.
Anything that stops your cough and spit from flying into my face will be helpful.
We have indeed had many conversations over the past few years about the purpose of masks and their usefulness in preventing the spread of viruses. My stance has always been while N95 masks without any airway bypass, worn correctly and not touched can statistically significantly (p-value greater than 0.05 ) reduce the chances that the infected individual will spread the virus onto others. But that outside of perfect lab conditions in the general population there have been lots of studies that show both limited if any impact as well as studies that show significant impact and that the debate has not been settled simply decisive (tribal cherry-picking that supports their view). It has been my view that very few people are wearing an effective mask correctly and that most mask-wearing is more security blanket/virtual signal (both mask-wearing/ non maks wearing) than an effective means of prevention. Lockdowns have proven a short-term effective means of slowing down/preventing the spread of the virus but at what costs and does it permanently reduce or simply delay? And my stance on lockdowns is it simply delays at a significant cost.
Anecdotal evidence glosses over all the variables that come into play. Even best-case lab tests show only a small decrease in cross infection and so it would be more realistic to assume that the strain and close proximity as well as if they were verified cases or assumed cases based upon symptoms, the other aspect is the randomness of infection could simply be they would have become a hot spot with or without masks and thus the randomness of infections has to be scaled over a larger population to see its true metric.
Im not sure if you need to hear this or not, but if you dont want to wear a mask, go for it, nobody is going to be upset.
Me personally, if there are two identical stores side by side, one is full of people wearing masks, the other has nobody wearing masks, all coughing and wheezing... Im going into the store with people wearing the masks. I dont need a peer reviewed study to decide if I want to breath your spit and coughs into my mouth.
During the initial waves there were a lot of deaths because ERs got overwhelmed and we were not sure how to deal with it. As more people got the vaccine, death rates dropped. To say that lockdowns did nothing but delayed the spread would be true, but that delay allowed a great percentage of the population to get vaccinated and have less severe symptoms, like not dying.
Im not sure what the debate is here, are you saying that doing nothing vs doing something would be yield the same results in terms of total people dying from the start of the pandemic to today?