Gathering Evidence, not vaporware

[DirectorGunner]

The "vaporware" responses I inevitably get when I talk about Star Citizen in other video game forums/threads are becoming too frequent. So instead of typing a huge response to these nuckle heads.. I just want to post a link to a video and be done with the conversation... like dropping a mic at their feet and walking away.

So let's make that video, in a thoughtful, factual, unbiased manner if possible. ???

What would you use to argue either for or against SC being vaporware?

What I think so far:
-agile iteration release of public builds to date
-showcased tech in ATV videos
-Partnership with Amazon (would Amazon partner with a vaporware product company?)
-Partnership with Faceware (established company with working products for B2B)

But I'm not sure if this really proves that SC is not vaporware? I need a better argument or a better way angle to rebuttal.

Also it's common to run into the "misappropriation of funds" argument.

My thoughts are:
-It's very expensive to run a business with ~400 employees with all overhead
-there is (AFAIK?) only 2 revenue streams from new pledges and subscribers... though, I'd hope there would be other revenue sources?
-The labor/asset waste from redoing assets and work because of expanded scope and new technology is not necessarily misappropriation of funds, perhaps poor planning, what are your thoughts on this? There's also concept assets which were in the leaked build that were likely abandoned for whatever reason. (can show example if wanted).

How would you formulate all relevant data into a coherent argument that people can not refute?

Thank you

 

[Blind Owl]

I am literally Blind Owl. Now to read the OP.

I really like this idea, Gunner. I have zero skill in assembling something like this, but I most certainly support the idea.

I think laying out each negative argument, and have a list of things disproving said argument.
Your examples, for example:

Star Citizen is vaporware.

- SC is in partnership with Amazon.
- multiple pkayblabke builds to date, each showing progress.
Etc etc etc.

I personally find the laying out of facts to be the most direct and unambiguous. That's me though. I'd also through in a good dose of humour, and a voice that sounds trustworthy, lol.

 

[Capntal]

I usually hear that the amount of money taken in should have resulted in a released game already.
I sometimes hear that the current build was all that was ever really planned and they're just stringing us along for more money.
I usually respond with the transparency of the development schedule.

What is playable is already incredible. It's too much to be vaporware.

 

[maynard]

why can't I be Blind Owl and sitting?

checkbox polls best polls

 

[RiceMaiden]

What? I am the one true Blind Owl! I'm too blind to see otherwise!

 

[Mich Angel]

When people start that conversation with me about SC and it's a load of BS and
where it is obvious they do not know shit what they are talking about

I always have the same answer...
- Ignorant and stupid people have always amused me...
"usually this trigger a pause of no talking where they are thinking if I just called them stupid"
if that happen.. I quickly say*.... if not I wait for the silence to happen then I say*....

* ....(first some fake laughing and then add)
- no I'm just kidding go on keep talking this is amusing.. :smirk:


:blush::beer::beer::beer::beer::beers::beers:

 

[Han Burgundy]

My response to those people is generally: Throwing more and more money at a large project will not magically make it go faster. (A lesson I learned the hard way with blushin' Bertha-jean at the strip club) If you don't trust CIG to properly handle your money, then the solution is simple; Don't give them any. Critics that take the vaporware approach generally aren't backers to begin with, so their stake in the situation is always minuscule. As a result, their research will generally be lacking.

And if asked "Yeah, but what if it IS vaporware, then what?" Well, if it is; then Chris Roberts better have set aside a large sum of money for personal security, because there will be a LOT of people out there that would want to see him dead.

 

[elwhappo]

standing because there's too much starch in my overhauls hee haw.

 

[Takeiteasy]

I just show them my copy of the finished game and it shuts them up pretty quickly.

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Did someone say poll?

https://testsquadron.com/threads/the-ultimate-poll.9941/

 

[Radegast74]

How would you formulate all relevant data into a coherent argument that people can not refute?

Thank you

I don't think you can come up with any sort of factual argument to refute people's beliefs like this.

Our side: We have this weird belief, that this guy (with a proven track record, btw) can produce the BDSSE, if we only keep sending him more money (no problem, if he was asking for virgin sacrifices, then there would be a problem...finding virgins, that is).

Their side: Haters gonna hate

My usual response to people is, "Are you kinda tired of 'Pretentious Title 3' or 'Action Title 7' or 'Sports Title 17' costing $60, playing just like the last one, and then ripping you off with DLC, or just being tired and boring? Well, Chris Roberts was sick of working for big studios pushing out garbage like that, and went directly to the people to make the game we all truly want and deserve. It's going to take time, but wait, because this guy has always delivered in the past."

 

[Stevetank]

why can't I be Blind Owl and sitting?

checkbox polls best polls

Blind own neither sits nor stands. He perches.






(Perches lots of ships all the time)

 

[Printimus]

Why should we have to prove anything or argue with the non-believers? Let them suffer without the glory of SC.

 

[GrammarGestapo]

My personal reason for believing it isn't vaporware is the eyes on one of the lead engineers working on making the bengal model "flight ready", as in modeling the interior etc. He was just so effusively excited in both look and tone of voice that I know he believed 100% in the project. They are working on it. They are spending an immense amount of money and effort trying to build this game. Vaporware is, in my mind, stuff that has no chance of ever being made and is just a scam. They are trying to build star citizen. IT's a game of such ambition it's hard to believe it, but they really are trying and that's all we've got to believe in right now.

 

[DirectorGunner]

Why should we have to prove anything or argue with the non-believers? Let them suffer without the glory of SC.

Because sometimes non believers turn into the biggest zealots

 

[Printimus]

Because sometimes non believers turn into the biggest zealots

Are they personally coming after you? Did they take something from you? Sometimes you cannot change the minds of people that are not willing to let their mind change.

 

[Stevetank]

Are they personally coming after you? Did they take something from you? Sometimes you cannot change the minds of people that are not willing to let their mind change.

We need mind control!


...you know...to help them..

 

[JackAvalon]

I usually opt with the truth. The truth of the matter is that we are all taking a gamble by backing this game. So for those people on the fence, tell them that they are basically gambling. If they trust Chris Roberts to finish his product then backing may be what they might want to do with the understanding that at any point the project could technically die. Tell them to bet however much they are willing to lose. Alternatively, they could also wait until release which is the safest option.

I dunno @DirectorGunner , i just don't try and convince people anymore. Mainly because most people these days aren't willing to have a debate. They just want to tell you how right they are. So honestly, if they haven't backed by now after seeing everything SC could be, they probably wont back period. At least not until launch. Good luck tho. o7

 

[Printimus]

We need mind control!


...you know...to help them..

agreed!

 

[Montoya]

Here is my 5min pitch:

It took Rockstar 5yrs, 1000 people and $272M ($137M for development and $128 for marketing) to release GTA V.

This was from an established studio, with existing staff, artists, writers, codemonkeys and offices.

Star Citizen has no game engine capable of doing what this game is envisioned to do. There is no previous or older version of the game to build off. Everything we are getting is new. To do this there are 400 employees in 4 offices working their asses off to develop something which has never existed before.

Star Citizen started with zero, just an idea. Everybody needed to be hired, offices needed to be rented, artists needed to be found. I don't even consider 2013 to count as a year of development. Most of what was created, like the original hangars for example got tossed out the window when more talented artists came on board and made a superior version. 2014 was the year when it really kicked off with several offices and more in-house staff doing the grunt work.

To that end its only been about 3yrs at full steam, so 2019 would be the target year if its comparable to what Rockstar did with GTA V.

Additionally the difference with Star Citizen is the open development model where every single misstep, bug and wrong turn in development is broadcast out into the world for all to see.

We did not see anything about GTA V until it was released, there was no weekly show keeping us informed about the state of the game. There was simply an announcement that the game was being made, then the release.

Bottom line, Star Citizen is a scam, give me your ships.