Guns. Good or Bad?
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Radegast74
Space Marshal
See this article:
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1823016659
And then this...
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1820163660
...and then this:
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819580358
And yet again:
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819578287
etc...
I hate seeing this topic come up every so often. It is a constant reminder of the evil in this world, and the decline social morality.
Takeiteasy
Space Marshal
Guns should all be banned and destroyed and not a single one left on the planet.
Anyone who disagrees should be shot.
Anyone who disagrees should be shot.
HeadClot
Grand Admiral
I voted guns good. It's not just recreation, even though I enjoy shooting for a hobby. It's not just the "prevention of tyranny", even though I agree with the need. It's because it is my job to keep my girls safe and come home every night. I take that job VERY seriously. I know from experience (part of which is 2 years as a prison guard) the truly evil people that walk among us. I wish it wasn't an issue. I wish we could all just play nice, but that is impossible in today's world. The presence or absence of guns will not change my job but they do make my job easier.
I do not begrudge anyone their opinion. One of my friends is a vietnam vet, a special. The violence he personally wrought in the service of his country is far more than any domestic incident in recent history. He will now no longer touch a weapon, ever. He used to be an avid hunter, but hasn't picked up a gun since he came back. That is a personal choice of his. Despite making that choice, he still does not begrudge people their opinion to own and carry weapons.
I fully respect other people and their decisions. If they don't like guns, I understand. That's their choice. That's actually why I carry concealed. I know some people don't like guns and I respect that. I will not force my decisions on them. I will not throw my choice to carry in their face. I will keep my choice a private one and try my best not to offend other people with it.
I keep my choice private because I know how I feel about people pushing their choices on me. People are entitled to their opinions, but don't try to force your choice on me. That's not how this country works. That's not how civilized, respectful people act. Our fine nation has apparently forgotten that.
One of the main issues with this arguement (and unfortunately it is an arguement), is misinformation. Both sides of the issue push their own "facts" that are custom tailored. They are tailored to make a point, their point. They are not stated with the intent of spreading impartial truth. I can give hundreds of examples where facts bend the truth to the point of lying. While "technically" true, the are carefully crafted to imply a lie. Most mainstream media is historically proven to employ these tactics. So are most "special interest" groups.
So if there is one piece of advice I would like to give in this, it is to please do the research. Don't just look at the guns bad people use. Look at the guns that are used in legal defense. When you look at the root cause make sure you are trying to solve the problem and not the symptom. If you want to take a solid stance, please do your homework (real research, not regurgitated misinformation). Please don't blindly form an opinion based on the pseudo-facts and custom tailored narrative that is daily dished out to us. That's all I ask.
As long as you do that, I will never begrudge you your opinion. In this case, I have my opinion based on well researched fact, personal experience, and a ton of training. It's my opinion though. Many oppose me and many support me. BOTH sides have merit. BOTH sides are supported by fact. BOTH sides are packed with misinformation. BOTH sides can lead to good and bad futures.
I do not begrudge anyone their opinion. One of my friends is a vietnam vet, a special. The violence he personally wrought in the service of his country is far more than any domestic incident in recent history. He will now no longer touch a weapon, ever. He used to be an avid hunter, but hasn't picked up a gun since he came back. That is a personal choice of his. Despite making that choice, he still does not begrudge people their opinion to own and carry weapons.
I fully respect other people and their decisions. If they don't like guns, I understand. That's their choice. That's actually why I carry concealed. I know some people don't like guns and I respect that. I will not force my decisions on them. I will not throw my choice to carry in their face. I will keep my choice a private one and try my best not to offend other people with it.
I keep my choice private because I know how I feel about people pushing their choices on me. People are entitled to their opinions, but don't try to force your choice on me. That's not how this country works. That's not how civilized, respectful people act. Our fine nation has apparently forgotten that.
One of the main issues with this arguement (and unfortunately it is an arguement), is misinformation. Both sides of the issue push their own "facts" that are custom tailored. They are tailored to make a point, their point. They are not stated with the intent of spreading impartial truth. I can give hundreds of examples where facts bend the truth to the point of lying. While "technically" true, the are carefully crafted to imply a lie. Most mainstream media is historically proven to employ these tactics. So are most "special interest" groups.
So if there is one piece of advice I would like to give in this, it is to please do the research. Don't just look at the guns bad people use. Look at the guns that are used in legal defense. When you look at the root cause make sure you are trying to solve the problem and not the symptom. If you want to take a solid stance, please do your homework (real research, not regurgitated misinformation). Please don't blindly form an opinion based on the pseudo-facts and custom tailored narrative that is daily dished out to us. That's all I ask.
As long as you do that, I will never begrudge you your opinion. In this case, I have my opinion based on well researched fact, personal experience, and a ton of training. It's my opinion though. Many oppose me and many support me. BOTH sides have merit. BOTH sides are supported by fact. BOTH sides are packed with misinformation. BOTH sides can lead to good and bad futures.
But don't take their guns away .. murica
Who cares about a view kids dying every other week anyway .. and its totally not about the guns even though it only happens in murica .. has to be something else .. you guys should pray harder guys! PRAY HARDER! And also don't look at Australia and the effects the stricter gun-laws had! Don't take a look at the numbers!
Oh and don't look at all the money your Senators get to represent you!
John McCain
Ariz.
“Cindy & I are praying for the victims of the terrible #LasVegasShooting & their families.”
$7,740,521
FROM THE N.R.A.
2. Richard Burr
N.C.
“My heart is with the people of Las Vegas and their first responders today. This morning’s tragic violence has absolutely no place here in America.”
$6,986,620
FROM THE N.R.A.
3. Roy Blunt
Mo.
“Saddened by the tragic loss of life in #LasVegas. My thoughts are with all of the families affected by this horrific attack.”
$4,551,146
FROM THE N.R.A.
4. Thom Tillis
N.C.
“Susan and I send our deepest condolences and prayers to the families of the victims of this horrific and senseless tragedy in Las Vegas.”
$4,418,012
FROM THE N.R.A.
5. Cory Gardner
Co.
“My family and I are praying for the families of those injured and killed in Las Vegas last night.”
$3,879,064
FROM THE N.R.A.
6. Marco Rubio
Fla.
“I’m praying for all the victims, their families, and our first responders in the #LasVegas #MandalayBay shooting.”
$3,303,355
FROM THE N.R.A.
7. Joni Ernst
Iowa
“My prayers are with all of the victims in Las Vegas, and their loved ones affected by this senseless act of violence.”
$3,124,273
FROM THE N.R.A.
8. Rob Portman
Ohio
“Jane & I mourn the loss of innocent lives in this horrific attack in Las Vegas last night. We are praying for those taken from us, their families & all those injured in this attack.”
$3,061,941
FROM THE N.R.A.
9. Todd Young
Ind.
“We must offer our full support to the victims and their families as our nation mourns.”
$2,896,732
FROM THE N.R.A.
10. Bill Cassidy
La.
“Following closely the horrendous act of violence in Las Vegas. Our prayers are with those who were injured, killed and their families.”
$2,861,047
FROM THE N.R.A.
House
1. French Hill
Ark.
“Martha and I are praying for the families and victims of this senseless act of evil. […] We must continue to work together to stop this kind of terror.”
$1,089,477
FROM THE N.R.A.
2. Ken Buck
Co.
“I'm praying for all of those impacted by the evil events in Las Vegas last night. Our country must stand together in support of the families of the victims and the community.”
$800,544
FROM THE N.R.A.
3. David Young
Iowa
“My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families and friends of the horrific and evil tragedy in Las Vegas.”
$707,662
FROM THE N.R.A.
4. Mike Simpson
Idaho
“Though no words can heal our hurt, and no explanation will ever feel sufficient, I pray that all involved may find comfort as we process this devastating tragedy.”
$385,731
FROM THE N.R.A.
5. Greg Gianforte
Mont.
No statement released.
$344,630
FROM THE N.R.A.
6. Don Young
Alaska
“Anne and I are praying for all those involved or impacted by this heinous act of violence.”
$245,720
FROM THE N.R.A.
7. Lloyd Smucker
Pa.
“Horrific act of violence in Las Vegas. Cindy and I pray for the victims, their families, and the first responders.”
$221,736
FROM THE N.R.A.
8. Bruce Poliquin
Maine
“My thoughts are with all those effected in the horrifying attacks in Las Vegas. The nation is with you.”
$201,398
FROM THE N.R.A.
9. Pete Sessions
Tex.
“My deepest sympathies are with all who were harmed by this horrific tragedy.”
$158,111
FROM THE N.R.A.
10. Barbara Comstock
Va.
“I am heartbroken by the mass murder that took place last night in Las Vegas and I am praying for the victims, families, and first responders.”
$137,232
FROM THE N.R.A.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/opinion/thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.html
Ariz.
“Cindy & I are praying for the victims of the terrible #LasVegasShooting & their families.”
$7,740,521
FROM THE N.R.A.
2. Richard Burr
N.C.
“My heart is with the people of Las Vegas and their first responders today. This morning’s tragic violence has absolutely no place here in America.”
$6,986,620
FROM THE N.R.A.
3. Roy Blunt
Mo.
“Saddened by the tragic loss of life in #LasVegas. My thoughts are with all of the families affected by this horrific attack.”
$4,551,146
FROM THE N.R.A.
4. Thom Tillis
N.C.
“Susan and I send our deepest condolences and prayers to the families of the victims of this horrific and senseless tragedy in Las Vegas.”
$4,418,012
FROM THE N.R.A.
5. Cory Gardner
Co.
“My family and I are praying for the families of those injured and killed in Las Vegas last night.”
$3,879,064
FROM THE N.R.A.
6. Marco Rubio
Fla.
“I’m praying for all the victims, their families, and our first responders in the #LasVegas #MandalayBay shooting.”
$3,303,355
FROM THE N.R.A.
7. Joni Ernst
Iowa
“My prayers are with all of the victims in Las Vegas, and their loved ones affected by this senseless act of violence.”
$3,124,273
FROM THE N.R.A.
8. Rob Portman
Ohio
“Jane & I mourn the loss of innocent lives in this horrific attack in Las Vegas last night. We are praying for those taken from us, their families & all those injured in this attack.”
$3,061,941
FROM THE N.R.A.
9. Todd Young
Ind.
“We must offer our full support to the victims and their families as our nation mourns.”
$2,896,732
FROM THE N.R.A.
10. Bill Cassidy
La.
“Following closely the horrendous act of violence in Las Vegas. Our prayers are with those who were injured, killed and their families.”
$2,861,047
FROM THE N.R.A.
House
1. French Hill
Ark.
“Martha and I are praying for the families and victims of this senseless act of evil. […] We must continue to work together to stop this kind of terror.”
$1,089,477
FROM THE N.R.A.
2. Ken Buck
Co.
“I'm praying for all of those impacted by the evil events in Las Vegas last night. Our country must stand together in support of the families of the victims and the community.”
$800,544
FROM THE N.R.A.
3. David Young
Iowa
“My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families and friends of the horrific and evil tragedy in Las Vegas.”
$707,662
FROM THE N.R.A.
4. Mike Simpson
Idaho
“Though no words can heal our hurt, and no explanation will ever feel sufficient, I pray that all involved may find comfort as we process this devastating tragedy.”
$385,731
FROM THE N.R.A.
5. Greg Gianforte
Mont.
No statement released.
$344,630
FROM THE N.R.A.
6. Don Young
Alaska
“Anne and I are praying for all those involved or impacted by this heinous act of violence.”
$245,720
FROM THE N.R.A.
7. Lloyd Smucker
Pa.
“Horrific act of violence in Las Vegas. Cindy and I pray for the victims, their families, and the first responders.”
$221,736
FROM THE N.R.A.
8. Bruce Poliquin
Maine
“My thoughts are with all those effected in the horrifying attacks in Las Vegas. The nation is with you.”
$201,398
FROM THE N.R.A.
9. Pete Sessions
Tex.
“My deepest sympathies are with all who were harmed by this horrific tragedy.”
$158,111
FROM THE N.R.A.
10. Barbara Comstock
Va.
“I am heartbroken by the mass murder that took place last night in Las Vegas and I am praying for the victims, families, and first responders.”
$137,232
FROM THE N.R.A.
Source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/04/opinion/thoughts-prayers-nra-funding-senators.html
But by not enforcing stricter gun laws those people get their hands on guns easier too. Thats why I don't get that argument. Everyone having a gun does not make anything saver. Or is there something I am missing? If you have 2 guns you can't be killed by one gun? I never owned a gun, noone in my family ever owned a gun, noone I know ever owned a gun, noone I know ever was confronted with a situation in which they needed a gun. If someone breaks into my house, I know that they do not have a gun. Cause if they had the money to buy a gun on the black marked they wouldn't need to break into my shitty place in the first place. And since the guy does not have a gun, noone gets shot and dies. There are better ways to protect yourself.
Come now Ezz, we have had this discussion and to once again to rehash and refocus on a small section of the overall picture is disingenuous to all involved.
Maybe you're right but we have this discussion once again for a reason. And I don't think that gun-control is a small section of the overall picture but the key reason (I don't see what other difference there is to other countries.) . But once again, in a week noone will care anymore .. till next month in this thread.
People care more than you realize, but when you have a country with divided opinions on what should be done, especially when it comes to interpreting or amending our bill of rights, or anything in the constitution, it's a huge deal. We're at an impasse, Republicans feel there's not much more we can do in means of gun control and want to focus on mental health. Democrats say they want stricter gun control but they haven't presented an argument that both sides will agree on. Anyone who is not an American will not understand why we can't just ban guns or limit certain guns and allow others. The argument is made that there is a distinction between an assault rifle and a hunting rifle. The closest I think I've seen this gun debate come to a resolution was when talk of banning AR-15's was on the table. California took this into their own hands and limited the sale of high capacity magazines and made it against the law for your AR to have a pistol grip. Did that help anything? I don't know, I haven't heard some awesome report talking about how well it worked. The guy that shot up Las Vegas was a class 3 firearms dealer. You think America would ever give up any foothold on the defense industry? I think not. We can debate this all day, and bring this up to "talk about it" because it's the time, but it's not. This always happens, and people talking about it isn't doing anything but making people more frustrated. We have a government and a way to voice our opinions to our leaders. If the country would get more involved in the community and less involved with social media, we might get somewhere.
Also I'd like to point out a good bit of these school shooters were "on the FBI's radar" as in they knew about them and did nothing. Our FBI's reputation is being thrown in the dirt and a lot of people don't trust them. If you knew the history of our CIA I wouldn't put it past the FBI to have allowed this to happen for political reasons. Remember the shooter in hollywood florida? Also on the FBI's radar. Ex Air Force. Remember the Texas shooting? On the FBI's radar after being discharged from the USAF. The FBI also knew about 9/11 and didn't act. Let that sink in.
My friends were on scene. I'm an ex EMT and worked with a few of the responders there. I live about an hour and a half away from the recent shooting. I live 45 minutes from the pulse shooting in Orlando. I was an hour from london when Terrorists were cutting off soldiers heads and running people over. Someone was gunned down outside my apartment in England as well. I've been too close to violence for comfort when it comes to people taking out their rage on the world. I'm fearful of a broken mind, not a solid bullet.
This haunts me. Like I wrote earlier, I was a prison guard for a couple years. I worked at a medium/maximum security prison. The people I guarded seemed like normal people, on the surface. Underneath those facades though, are people that have done the most despicable acts for the most despicable reasons. I'm talking about people doing things that are so far away from the world you know, that you simply can't imagine them.
Before I worked there, I would see things like the movie "silence of the lambs" and found the situation laughable. I found the crimes described in that movie to be laughably over dramatic. As a large guy, I found the face mask and full body restraints to be hilarious. Why on earth would the guards need to so thoroughly restrain somebody that is old and half their size?
After working there though, I understand. I have met people like that. I know they are out there. The best way to describe it is dogs. Lets say you come walking up to a house and a 80lb german shepard comes raging around the house. Just about everyone would quite literally shit themselves, even just a little. You would want that dog restrained and muzzled to feel safe.
That's the level of caution these people warrant and most people just don't understand it. That's a good thing though. There is a feeling of safety and security most people have that is shattered when they know these people exist. It's kind of like never really feeling the same sense of safety in your own home after a break in. Having a personal experience that so blatantly violates the limits of our society is damaging at the very least.
That's exactly the thing. Pure, unadulterated, animalistic agression is a scary thing. It doesn't follow logic. It doesn't have an off switch. It doesn't think "that's good enough, time to walk away now". It doesn't stop to consider repercussions. It doesn't care about morality, ethics, honor, or guilt. It abandons all reason and is comprised of pure unadulterated violence. Sometimes the motive is compulsion, sometimes it's sexual, sometimes it's even a twisted up web of justification.
The things these people do, don't require any specific tools. They're not just going to give up when it gets a little more difficult. Druggies won't just sit there and suffer the withdrawals in silence. They're going to steal whatever they can however they can and don't care who dies in the process. A rapist is born with the necessary equipment. Gang members are going to fight and kill each other however they can. Violent people are going to be violent. These people are going to commit these crimes no matter what tools they use. That's because they are fucked up in the head.
Normal people can never fully understand. They understand normal. They can't understand crazy. That's why they blame things they do understand. That's why they try to solve the symptoms instead of the source. It's the only part of the equation that makes any sense. I've met crazy though. I've seen what they are capable of. It scares the holy fucking shit out of me. It certainly frightens me more than something they use on occasion.
So many people are shielded from the depths of hell this world contains. They shouldn't be exposed to it, but they should at least be a little more aware. Thanks for sharing your story man, it's grimly insightful.
It's not about stopping violence itself with strict gun laws. It's about preventing mass-shootings that take so many lives.
Now would you want to give that dog a gun?
So all drugs should be legal? Or is there a reason why drugs are not legal?
That would mean, only in the USA are crazy people. Or way way more crazy people than in any other part of the world. But that's not the case. So why are there more mass-shootings in the US? The only significant difference are the gun-laws to my knowledge.
I agree that the gun itself is not the reason for the action, but if you don't have another solution to make the situation better and the alternative is that there will be many more mass shootings and many many more victims, many of those children, than wouldn't you want to make a change?
You don't know crazy until you come to our country.
HeadClot
Grand Admiral
We really need to focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment for our prison and jail system.You don't know crazy until you come to our country.
Those numbers have also to do with stuff like private prisons that are a business and are not really aiming at rehabilitating. America has a 75% recidivism rate that is high!You don't know crazy until you come to our country.
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