Lack of TEST Javelins - Read Inside

[CrashMan054]

For shits n' giggles, I went to the Lord of the Rings premiere dressed up as a clown, with full make-up and everything, and handed out balloons to kids. The people there thought the theater had hired me to be there for some kids movie that was out at the same time.

Then the theater manager asked me who from the main office had hired me for the day, so I just said no one, squeezed my nose, honked my horn, and ran off to the movie with balloons flying everywhere.

True story. LOL

Did you make a balloon animal, fill it with helium, and float it into the screen?

 

[Pazzolupo]

Yes, I bet it will take some time. But flying in high security space, I doubt we will have much to worry about.

I don't know...EVE Online hisec was not safe for juicy targets. I doubt it will be safe in Star Citizen. Then again we don't know the security and consequence system's details yet.

 

[CrashMan054]

I don't know...EVE Online hisec was not safe for juicy targets. I doubt it will be safe in Star Citizen. Then again we don't know the security and consequence system's details yet.

One of my biggest hopes for SC is that it's high security areas are actually "high security". CIG has already said that UEE space would be very hard to attack anything in, and if you did attack something, you'd basically be marked for death. Hopefully that'll curb the EVE style noob killing.

 

[Erroll]

We will have to buy space Viagra to put into the shield generators

If your shields persist for more than four hours seek help right away...

 

[Annitias]

Well a size 14 shield should hold for some time unless getting torpedoed

 

[Pazzolupo]

One of my biggest hopes for SC is that it's high security areas are actually "high security". CIG has already said that UEE space would be very hard to attack anything in, and if you did attack something, you'd basically be marked for death. Hopefully that'll curb the EVE style noob killing.

Remember that you were marked for death in EVE Online as well...but you had enough time to kill someone if you do it right. The only way to truly prevent people getting ganked in high security space is if you get insta-gibbed as soon as you open fire. Even then if a group of people all get off one single volley it can still be done with the right assortment of ships and weapons.

Those of us that played EVE know this inherently but it's easy to forget in favor of the dream of this game being perfectly catered to our expectations.

 

[CrashMan054]

Remember that you were marked for death in EVE Online as well...but you had enough time to kill someone if you do it right. The only way to truly prevent people getting ganked in high security space is if you get insta-gibbed as soon as you open fire. Even then if a group of people all get off one single volley it can still be done with the right assortment of ships and weapons.

Those of us that played EVE know this inherently but it's easy to forget in favor of the dream of this game being perfectly catered to our expectations.

Obviously, you'll probably be able to kill a small fighter with a largish ship before system security arrives. But in EVE, if you reentered that system, would you be already marked? SC puts bounties on players who attack others in UEE sectors, and authorizes PVP on them.

 

[Erroll]

Wasn't part of the issue that if you killed an expensive ship with a cheap ship your mates could rummage through the carcass even if you were destroyed by the cops? As long as you end up in the plus column when its over then the behavior will continue..

 

[CrashMan054]

Wasn't part of the issue that if you killed an expensive ship with a cheap ship your mates could rummage through the carcass even if you were destroyed by the cops? As long as you end up in the plus column when its over then the behavior will continue..

I believe CIG said that they were going to prevent people from looting player destroyed ships in UEE sectors without any resistance. If you could fight off the cops long enough to loot the carcass, it'd be profitable, but from what I understand, that will be very hard.

 

[CrashMan054]

I also heard that they were going to be looking for the sort of behavior that you mentioned(like others looting a ship after you suicide it) and be actively handing out punishments/bans.

 

[CrashMan054]

Oh, and to add a third post to this stack, there's also perma-death/inheritance tax in SC.

 

[NKato]

My advice is to keep the Javelins in drydock for now, and get them refitted; focus our capship crews on Idris Frigates and the yet-to-be-revealed Corvettes; they're both capships, and both deal with roles that the Destroyer is expected to supersede.

Starting small during PU Beta would be a good idea, and getting capship operations ironed out will be a key element in determining whether or not we are ready to field larger capships. Besides, having large crews right off the bat runs the risk of having people mess with our ships while we're in the middle of a fight. (Sabotage is a real issue that may happen.)

So yeah. Keep the Javelins stowed, work on small-scale warfare and asset production, and ramp things up quickly after a week or two from PU launch.

 

[CrashMan054]

My advice is to keep the Javelins in drydock for now, and get them refitted; focus our capship crews on Idris Frigates and the yet-to-be-revealed Corvettes; they're both capships, and both deal with roles that the Destroyer is expected to supersede.

Starting small during PU Beta would be a good idea, and getting capship operations ironed out will be a key element in determining whether or not we are ready to field larger capships. Besides, having large crews right off the bat runs the risk of having people mess with our ships while we're in the middle of a fight. (Sabotage is a real issue that may happen.)

So yeah. Keep the Javelins stowed, work on small-scale warfare and asset production, and ramp things up quickly after a week or two from PU launch.

That's true, we should also try to organize some of our own sabotage operations right off the bat. The more rival cap ships we can take out, the better off we are.

 

[NKato]

That's true, we should also try to organize some of our own sabotage operations right off the bat. The more rival cap ships we can take out, the better off we are.

I'd honestly prefer we avoided engaging in any type of espionage beyond information gathering. However, I'm not against the idea if it's necessary.

In the long term, we're better off sticking with 100-meter ships and less for most combat operations, and capital ships would be used primarily for target-specific roles. In the end, the most common capital ship in our arsenal should be the Corvette, as I expect it to be very good as a picket defense ship.

Large capital ships aren't expected to be good at defending themselves against smaller strike packages, so keep that in mind. I've also thought about taking a page from the Goonswarm Federation's playbook, and applying the "Reaver Squad" strategy to Star Citizen.

 

[Pazzolupo]

Obviously, you'll probably be able to kill a small fighter with a largish ship before system security arrives. But in EVE, if you reentered that system, would you be already marked? SC puts bounties on players who attack others in UEE sectors, and authorizes PVP on them.

In EVE Online when you attack someone in hisec a gigantic police fleet shows up and one shots you. The time you have from first volley to your silver platter insta-gib death scaled with the level of security in that system. Higher security was maybe a few seconds, while the lower the security in system grew to enough time to get away, and nullsec (no security/uninhabited) you can do whatever you want with no intervention.

Bottom line as usual is we have to wait for more details. We don't yet know how they will ultimately handle scavenging a wreck that you "happen upon". As per usual we sit and wait, and when the game goes into testing the population will break it and exploit mechanics. That's just the reality of online gaming.

 

[NKato]

In EVE Online when you attack someone in hisec a gigantic police fleet shows up and one shots you. The time you have from first volley to your silver platter insta-gib death scaled with the level of security in that system. Higher security was maybe a few seconds, while the lower the security in system grew to enough time to get away, and nullsec (no security/uninhabited) you can do whatever you want with no intervention.

Bottom line as usual is we have to wait for more details. We don't yet know how they will ultimately handle scavenging a wreck that you "happen upon". As per usual we sit and wait, and when the game goes into testing the population will break it and exploit mechanics. That's just the reality of online gaming.

What minimized the consequences of being insta-gibbed by the police in Highsec, was the fact that you respawned in a new clone with your finances still intact. Provided that you built up your funds, you could easily re-grind your security status in order to continue harassing players in highsec. In other words, it was a vicious cycle that just wouldn't end.

In Star Citizen, it should prove much, much more difficult than this.

 

[Pazzolupo]

What minimized the consequences of being insta-gibbed by the police in Highsec, was the fact that you respawned in a new clone with your finances still intact. Provided that you built up your funds, you could easily re-grind your security status in order to continue harassing players in highsec. In other words, it was a vicious cycle that just wouldn't end.

In Star Citizen, it should prove much, much more difficult than this.

While I agree, if your never bother to grind rep then you don't lose anything. My current (albeit limited) understanding of their idea is that assets will transfer over and reputation is wiped clean. This is only after multiple deaths of course, so if I felt like being a bastard with my last 2-3 deaths intentionally before I swap to my catered NPC there is nothing stopping me. Further, if this holds true then I can continue being a bastard without having to worry about reputation because after the deaths my character starts again as a new person. Considering there is no skills or levels, I can get right back into a ship and do it all again.

I'm not saying it will be as prevalent in EVE Online, but never underestimate people's drive to screw with other people's crap. Also, I understand that in high security space CIG wants to make sure this type of stuff won't be regular. This does not mean that we magically can't be attacked in our expensive new ships in hisec. It only means that CIG will be looking to improve the experience as things come up.

I love this game's direction and I love what I've seen. I am in this 100% and I will join you guys on any and all suicide missions (I don't value my ships over my fun factor) but I always try to think what the griefers will do so as not to be surprised.

 

[Erroll]

My advice is to keep the Javelins in drydock for now, and get them refitted; focus our capship crews on Idris Frigates and the yet-to-be-revealed Corvettes; they're both capships, and both deal with roles that the Destroyer is expected to supersede.

I think one of the things to be figured out is whether one dude on a turret is worth a dude in a fighter or missile boat.

The interesting dynamic in all this is that cap ships absorb players. Is a cap ship with, say, 20 people worth 20 fighters?

In Eve one ship absorbed one person regardless of size (or so I understand, I played Eve only a little).. so the dynamic was very different...

I am also wondering if maybe we will see cap ships having their NPCs sat by players as players have their ships blown up (will it look like the matrix when the AI took over a person?). So as the battle progresses, more and more players are jumping into NPCs on the surviving cap ships.

 

[CrashMan054]

While I agree, if your never bother to grind rep then you don't lose anything. My current (albeit limited) understanding of their idea is that assets will transfer over and reputation is wiped clean. This is only after multiple deaths of course, so if I felt like being a bastard with my last 2-3 deaths intentionally before I swap to my catered NPC there is nothing stopping me. Further, if this holds true then I can continue being a bastard without having to worry about reputation because after the deaths my character starts again as a new person. Considering there is no skills or levels, I can get right back into a ship and do it all again.

I'm not saying it will be as prevalent in EVE Online, but never underestimate people's drive to screw with other people's crap. Also, I understand that in high security space CIG wants to make sure this type of stuff won't be regular. This does not mean that we magically can't be attacked in our expensive new ships in hisec. It only means that CIG will be looking to improve the experience as things come up.

I love this game's direction and I love what I've seen. I am in this 100% and I will join you guys on any and all suicide missions (I don't value my ships over my fun factor) but I always try to think what the griefers will do so as not to be surprised.

The difference with SC is the fact that killing off several characters just to get back to neutral rep is a much more prolonged and costly process. CIG has said that they'd be looking for greifers and EVE-like highsec campers. Obviously, this is an internet game, and there's always the people on the internet that tend to want to screw things up. My hope is that CIG takes an active role in preventing this crap.

 

[S734LTH]

I don't know...EVE Online hisec was not safe for juicy targets. I doubt it will be safe in Star Citizen. Then again we don't know the security and consequence system's details yet.

This is kinda how I feel, you know people are going to gank in high sec areas and piss off before the local bacon shows up. Even if they end up wanted in UEE space, from the sounds of it Banu space is pretty much anarchistic.