That near miss F-Bomb makes me want a Rated R Montoya channel.
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SC community freak out over warbond perks (video)
- Thread starter Montoya
- Start date
I'll go on the record, and be first to say "Montoya is a smart man."
Now I don't vouch for that, I am just trying to earn some street cred here in Test.
Now I don't vouch for that, I am just trying to earn some street cred here in Test.
Honesty im with montoya on this i spent my money i dont expect it back and if they decide to take LTI away from further sales then oh well it's their choice. I know what i was putting my money in for and i'll always have access to those LTI ships or lower costing ships in my buyback forever. Time for LTI ships is pretty much over unless you want to dump more money into the game lets move on and just play with what you bought if you want to wait for something else then wait for something else. If you want something else then buy something else with the real cash. Save up your money for the next warbond if you cant afford it then to bad lol.
If the "perks" have no value then gift cards are the same as cash... if however you put a value on "LTI" (which could be argued that CIG seems to) as well as the discount for new money, then the gift cards that were purchased with real fresh money are immediately devalued because the "perks" are no longer available. The simplest solution is... ( @Printimus ... this is your cue... ) LTI ALL THE THINGS!
Notice how Glorious Leader swiftly and decisively solved the donut dilemma at 3:08! Chocolate glazed is the best donut! So say we owl!
Right
Oh, man, that song makes me want to go disco dancing. Time to watch the Saturday Night Fever dvd.
Haha, I concur with you, Boss: fresh money is good money. Do whatever the hell you have to, CIG, to earn the money needed to get us this game.
If there's one thing I've learned about video game communities, it's that they love to whine.
Well, here's some fucking cheese for all you whiners.
If there's one thing I've learned about video game communities, it's that they love to whine.
Well, here's some fucking cheese for all you whiners.
Hopefully you are also providing the quality wine to go with that delicious looking cheese
Hahaaha, no brother, the community at large (the ones that are always crying and bitching) they are providing the w(h)ine.
I find theirs is rather salty though.
For such a strong whine you need the best cheese can offer to drown all the whine out.
Yep, as you say a company selling the gift-card will get the dough immediately but it is classed as an unsecured debt - the money is a debt the company will have to pay at some time in the future. Giftcards are classed as unsecured debt to the redeemer of the card, so if they have sold $1million of gift cards they have a debt of $1million split between thousands of individuals they may have to pay back at a moments notice (for instance after Christmas if cards were given as gifts). Because this unsecured debt is unpredictable, a company may earmark a chunk of its funds to the same value and not spend it - when vouchers expire unredeemed they then wipe off that debt and make those funds available to themselves again. If the voucher is spent the funds are used on the creation and delivery of the item the recipient of the gift card chose to buy.
If a company that has gift cards is not earmarking funds for their giftcard debts, and all those with giftcards suddenly redeem them during a bad part of the year (like when Tax Returns are raised), the company will either need a loan from a secure creditor like a bank to see them through or find that they 'aint got no damned money anymore. The reason giftcards are usually void when a company collapses is because those closing the company will honor paying back secured debt (something backed up with collateral like a bank loan - your house may be at risk blah blah blah) first over unsecured debt without collateral (just giving them $50 without asking for any collateral as with gift cards).
So putting it in our sphere if a company is not earmarking funds for their unsecured debts: (the following company name has been changed to protect the innocent. This is purely an example: ) You get a $50 Space Citizen gift card to send someone, BIG (the game company) gets $50 which they then spend on additional dev for wiggly hair physics without a second thought. Hooray for wiggly hair! - You then send that card to me... I get it in the mail a week later. I already have all the ships I want (which cost BIG $0 to make a unit of or ship to me after the initial dev to make it in the first place) so not needing any ships, I spend it on physical Merch... CIG has already spent the $50 on wiggly hair, but they need to hand some of that cash (lets say $30) to the people/part of BIG making the physical merch. BIG is now down $30. This is bad.
Company debts, secured or otherwise, are nothing to be ignored so many companies will earmark funds and not spend them until the card is written off either by being redeemed or by expiring. If the company has no expiry date on the card, it will sit there until they decide enough is enough and write off that unsecured debt, making the funds available again. If a card is then presented years later, the company might honor the card but this will be an unexpected expense which will cost them - the original dept had been written off so that funds for that purchase will have to come out of the company.
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Moving on from this, think of Melting a ship to get a brand new concept...
CIG got the $85 you spent on the Herald Concept, and surprise surprise, they built the Herald. It might of cost them $500,000 to build the Herald, but they had the concept funds from the Herald sale to do that. You then melt the Herald to buy the Hurc. You melt a bunch of other flyable ships, too. The money you paid for those flyable ships was spent on making them all flyable, Cutlass, Aurora, 300, Avenger... The $360 melt credits you put on the Hurc... well they are long, long gone. Potentially, if EVERY sale on the Hurc was melt credits, they would have a budget of $0 to develop it. So what happens? I'd suppose it goes to the back of the development queue until such time they have either a secondary income stream or a big enough concept sale that brings in fresh money to cover both the new concept and the Hurc. Ever wondered what happened to the Endeavor? I do remember them saying it probably wouldn't be ready in time for game launch...? Thats just a theory, of course... but it sounds like it stacks up.
I'd love to know hoe much $ went on developing the Herald to this point. :slight_smile:
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Here is my problem with the attitude given by CIG
I am fairly new to the project as a backer and after days of research and information gathering (done with minor energy), my first ship i chose was the Archimedes and a game package. First mistake made. I used the SC discord to ask, why my new snub was not able to jump anywhere. After some more input, i melted the ship...
No one told me of LTI tokens when the nox came out. Then boredgamer, noobifier and the great test squadron gave me helpful inside.
Next concept ship was the hawk, not the best LTI token, but my first to make use of. So i bought 6 of them for my future fleet to ccu into.
Lots of melting and upgrading later, i am now stuck at over 350$ of store credit and a lot of test ships, highly likely to be melted in the future after testing them in game. I did all this, because i was told the system would work like this.
1 --> This all boils down to the fact, that players need to heavily research and learn about a simple buying decision and even then, they will probably make a mistake as they do not yet have the bigger picture of how sales work and what mechanics work best to get what you want.
So after learning all these steps, you start putting more and more money in, using store credits, ccu and LTI tokens. You will certainly melt older ships when a newer one comes out, that hits closer to your original idea. This is a learned process.
2 --> CIG suddenly changes a core principle of buying ships with LTI. There was no warning, no transition time, no tokens, no store credit refunds or anything else. Players like me, who are sitting on hundreds of dollars of store credit, suddenly realize that we actually LOST value. We lost fresh money put in earlier, due to devaluation. This is scamming behaviour.
Luckily, the CCU upgrade system still allows to upgrade from a LTI token into any new concept ship with store credit, which is perfecty fine.
People are not able to buy new concept ships with store credit (and LTI) without any LTI tokens as CCU upgrade. That is text book devaluation of money. goes hand in hand with gift cards. And the major fault here is the way it was communicated: not at all.
Anger level: 4/10
Can move on? Yes! Due to CCU and tokens (only!).
I am fairly new to the project as a backer and after days of research and information gathering (done with minor energy), my first ship i chose was the Archimedes and a game package. First mistake made. I used the SC discord to ask, why my new snub was not able to jump anywhere. After some more input, i melted the ship...
No one told me of LTI tokens when the nox came out. Then boredgamer, noobifier and the great test squadron gave me helpful inside.
Next concept ship was the hawk, not the best LTI token, but my first to make use of. So i bought 6 of them for my future fleet to ccu into.
Lots of melting and upgrading later, i am now stuck at over 350$ of store credit and a lot of test ships, highly likely to be melted in the future after testing them in game. I did all this, because i was told the system would work like this.
1 --> This all boils down to the fact, that players need to heavily research and learn about a simple buying decision and even then, they will probably make a mistake as they do not yet have the bigger picture of how sales work and what mechanics work best to get what you want.
So after learning all these steps, you start putting more and more money in, using store credits, ccu and LTI tokens. You will certainly melt older ships when a newer one comes out, that hits closer to your original idea. This is a learned process.
2 --> CIG suddenly changes a core principle of buying ships with LTI. There was no warning, no transition time, no tokens, no store credit refunds or anything else. Players like me, who are sitting on hundreds of dollars of store credit, suddenly realize that we actually LOST value. We lost fresh money put in earlier, due to devaluation. This is scamming behaviour.
Luckily, the CCU upgrade system still allows to upgrade from a LTI token into any new concept ship with store credit, which is perfecty fine.
People are not able to buy new concept ships with store credit (and LTI) without any LTI tokens as CCU upgrade. That is text book devaluation of money. goes hand in hand with gift cards. And the major fault here is the way it was communicated: not at all.
Anger level: 4/10
Can move on? Yes! Due to CCU and tokens (only!).
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I have no big qualms on the changes myself. I do think they should have been up front with the changes and announced it with the reasons why.
It comes across as we need more cash <<< Think what this message is saying instead of managing on what has been raised (a huge sum) they are instead working on the annual amount raised as income projections.
I do think the grey market is unfriendly and unnecessary and this all stems from the stupidity that is LTI. I would remove ship insurance from the game (for all ships bought with real cash) and use other money sinks it really has made a mess.
It comes across as we need more cash <<< Think what this message is saying instead of managing on what has been raised (a huge sum) they are instead working on the annual amount raised as income projections.
I do think the grey market is unfriendly and unnecessary and this all stems from the stupidity that is LTI. I would remove ship insurance from the game (for all ships bought with real cash) and use other money sinks it really has made a mess.
Just some of my opinions
I do think its a bit shitty getting a free tonk and a beep beep jeep with the versions of the hurc meaning someone who may be slowly building to a big ship loses out.
People were upgrading LTI tokens something that CIG has mentioned wasn't really a big deal and to me they came up with a kinda stupid option with the "fresh cash" gets you WAY better stuff really is a poor sales strategy. feels kinda like getting totally ripped off trading in games.
Honestly at this point nothing they can do wont be criticised by some group but most companies offer extended warranties on their kit or appliances something I think CIG should have done instead of this kinda stuff.
As mentioned above an LTI token for a few dollars would sell well enough for people who NEED to have lti on their ships, without putting people off. poor sales tactics will lose you sales from people who just don't agree with it or feel ripped off.
Sure on a 1 on 1 comparison it would not make as much money but you would sell more. I would rather have more happy customers that are willing to spend money than a few who can afford all the nice things.
It seems like people are being punished for wanting something or wanting to upgrade a ship but not willing to put more money in a project that they think might not be moving forward enough.
My next point is in a game where anything can change due to alpha and mechanics are still being implemented how is it fair to punish them for a change in career? I know a few friends that chose not to buy/upgrade to a hurc because of how they approached it so that's a loss in sales and unhappy customers. Other friends wanted to put money in when they can to help funding and slowly grow from an aurora to a 300 to cutty but now they have to pay more because they wanted to spend when they could?
This doesn't really bother me too much as I just want the game and happy to wait but do they really need this kinda shitty gimmick?
If they are concerned about fresh cash why even bother with buy back options? I bought back my cutty when I upgraded it before all this kinda business was in place.
If you were trading in your car how would you feel if for example the salesperson said trading in your old car? oh that's gonna cost you more to buy the car now? it would sure put you off from spending money there in the future.
I only have about 7 - 8 years experience with sales and dealing with customers on scales ranging from working at game to working in oil so not some kind of profit on the matter.
Anyway I am just waiting for my carrack and 325a rework...
Carrack when tho
I do think its a bit shitty getting a free tonk and a beep beep jeep with the versions of the hurc meaning someone who may be slowly building to a big ship loses out.
People were upgrading LTI tokens something that CIG has mentioned wasn't really a big deal and to me they came up with a kinda stupid option with the "fresh cash" gets you WAY better stuff really is a poor sales strategy. feels kinda like getting totally ripped off trading in games.
Honestly at this point nothing they can do wont be criticised by some group but most companies offer extended warranties on their kit or appliances something I think CIG should have done instead of this kinda stuff.
As mentioned above an LTI token for a few dollars would sell well enough for people who NEED to have lti on their ships, without putting people off. poor sales tactics will lose you sales from people who just don't agree with it or feel ripped off.
Sure on a 1 on 1 comparison it would not make as much money but you would sell more. I would rather have more happy customers that are willing to spend money than a few who can afford all the nice things.
It seems like people are being punished for wanting something or wanting to upgrade a ship but not willing to put more money in a project that they think might not be moving forward enough.
My next point is in a game where anything can change due to alpha and mechanics are still being implemented how is it fair to punish them for a change in career? I know a few friends that chose not to buy/upgrade to a hurc because of how they approached it so that's a loss in sales and unhappy customers. Other friends wanted to put money in when they can to help funding and slowly grow from an aurora to a 300 to cutty but now they have to pay more because they wanted to spend when they could?
This doesn't really bother me too much as I just want the game and happy to wait but do they really need this kinda shitty gimmick?
If they are concerned about fresh cash why even bother with buy back options? I bought back my cutty when I upgraded it before all this kinda business was in place.
If you were trading in your car how would you feel if for example the salesperson said trading in your old car? oh that's gonna cost you more to buy the car now? it would sure put you off from spending money there in the future.
I only have about 7 - 8 years experience with sales and dealing with customers on scales ranging from working at game to working in oil so not some kind of profit on the matter.
Anyway I am just waiting for my carrack and 325a rework...
Carrack when tho
DragonHeart
Space Marshal
A free Tank is quite generous.
Marketing team sure knows what to do.
Marketing team sure knows what to do.
That is where I see a big disconnect. There is no "losing out" because you can't own every single thing in the game one day 1.
This community has evolved into a "must catch them all" crowd mentality, which is great for a crowd funding project like this, but then leads to issues like we just saw.
Throwing my 2 cents into the arena... I actually agree that LTI isnt worth the arguments.. I have no problem with the perk or that warbond stuff costs a bit less than reused money. Butttttt... the free tank with the warbond gunship.. well... its already $100 difference.. add in a $105 tank and all of a sudden you have a $205 difference in actual value.. thats too much.. that part is unfair.. surprised i havent seen any comments on that...