Start Me Up - Ship Talk #11: The Starter Ships
Welcome back to Ship Talk! For those of you new to this series(where have you been? Seriously where?), Ship Talk is where I take the current on paper stats for a group of ships similar in either role or hull, analyze them, and give my own thoughts on how they compare to each other. Below you can find links to previous Ship Talks and Ship Talk Commentary. This Ship Talk was a request from thanatos73 and it will compare the 3 Starter Ships as designated by CIG.
Ship Talk #1 - Exploring the Unknown: The top 4 Exploration Ships
Ship Talk #2 - Aurora Rain: All about the MVP of TEST, the Aurora + Variants
Ship Talk #3 - Squadron Reporting - Ship Talk #3 'Fighters' Part 1
Ship Talk #3 - Squadron Reporting - Ship Talk #3 'Fighters' Part 2
Ship Talk #4 - Cargo Cult: The Cargo Haulers
Ship Talk #5 - Avast Me Hearties! - Ship Talk #5: The Cutlass
Ship Talk #6 - Goin Freelance: The Freelancers
Ship Talk #7 - The Redeemer
Ship Talk #8 - Wild Horses: The Mustangs
Ship Talk #9 - Stars Above: The Constellations
Ship Talk #10 - Hornets Attack!: The Hornets
The Aegis Vanguard - Ship Talk Commentary #1
The Hull Series - Ship Talk Commentary #2
The MISC Reliant - Ship Talk Commentary #3
So just a recap here and other info. Last Sunday I put up STC #3 for the Reliant. From the poll and replies I think people like the ship quite a bit. I personally can't wait until we get it in our hands along with the variants. The Reliant Q&A Wednesday can be found here and the one on Friday can be found here. I like these new Q&A they are doing because it enhances the ship in many ways and curbs unreasonable expectations. One thing that did come up and I completely missed this until I saw it on RSI is the cargo capacity of the Reliant is probably very wrong. No Sunder surely not, CIG wouldn't do that to us! I'm afraid it is true. The concept pic shows a 30m³ hold. Therefore the listed value on the site is not in SCU. Derp. I hope in the end it becomes 30 SCU but we will see.
Now the Starter ships are meant to be ships you start out in. Imagine that :). As such they are not the juggernauts of space like other ships and are fairly weak and minimally armed but can do many things. They are also ships you want to get out of asap and into a real ship so you can start down your chosen path. If anyone has played Eve Online you'll remember the starter ship they gave you. It was little more than a bit of protection for your pod but it was maneuverable and would warp quickly.
Disclaimer now, I don't consider the Reliant to be on the same level as the Aurora and the Mustang but a half step above because of its price and capabilities(Which you'll see in glaring detail below) but I still do believe it can be classed as a 'Starter'. From the Q&A of the Reliant Friday: "We’re still working out many of the plans for post-launch, but the current idea is that the Reliant (and similarly priced ‘tier 2’ ships) would be part of slightly more expensive packages. It’s 100% a ship intended to start the game, though! Like the Aurora and the Mustang, the Reliant was designed from the ground up to allow players to experience as many different opportunities in the Star Citizen world as possible." You can draw your own conclusions but I don't think this is anything to worry about and we should embrace because these are going to be starter career ships that are more specialized such as the Terrapin, Dragonfly, and Hurricane.
I'm rambling. I am happy though that my speculation that maybe the 300i could be considered a 'Tier 2' was dead wrong. This will be a rather short Talk because I've done pieces on all of these ships now so please go read those. Anyway let's get to the comparisons and how unfair some of them are:
My Thoughts on the Ships(Mustang Alpha, Aurora ES, Reliant)
General Thoughts on Stats
First let me acknowledge again that these stats and listed equipment are all subject to change. However, unless something drastic occurs in testing I would expect these stats to still give a good overall direction and capability for each ship. Below is a link to a composite picture I made with all the stats listed from the RSI site:
All Starter Stats
Descriptions and Roles
Because each of these ships is stated to be a Starter I think we know what their role is. However the Reliant being what it is as a 'Mini-Hauler" is a bit more specialized than the Aurora ES or the Mustang Alpha but can still fulfill several roles like the others. It is just more geared toward hauling where the others are more generalized. For the descriptions of each ship I would say each one paints a good picture of each in how they can be used.
Structure and Propulsion
Lets get down to the meat of these ships. For cargo capacity you have the Alpha at 10, the ES at 13 if you equip the box. The Reliant is....debatable. As I said at the beginning the concept picture only shows 30m³ which comes out to about 15 SCU. If that is the case it is still a good number but a bit of a letdown. You would be better off at that point getting an Aurora CL to haul with until you got enough to upgrade to a larger ship. For manpower the numbers on the Alpha and Aurora are the same: One. The Reliant of course needs 2 people but this makes it an excellent training vehicle for many types of multi-crew roles, particularly weapons. The max power plants on these ships is a 3 for the Alpha, a 2 for the Aurora and a ??? for the Reliant. The max size for the reliant is listed as a Size 2 on the spec chart on the concept sale page but I'm hoping it is raised to a 3 when they nail it down.
Moving down for max engines you have a couple TR2s for the Alpha. A single TR3 for the Aurora and 2 TR1s for the Reliant. Now wait a second TR1s for that size ship. Yeah.......supposedly the engines for that are really good because it was stated in the Q&A they want it to go faster than an Aurora but slower than the Mustang. This proves that TR ratings are in fact bullshit and a max speed is very arbitrary. I don't discount the idea that alien anything would be much better than our own tech. If you assign a rating to that engine saying it will output X thrust and then say a ship will still move dead slow compared to another despite a lower mass then something is wrong. I'm talking about the Aurora of course.
Moving along to maneuvering thrusters you'll see that the Reliant has 12 while the others have 8 TR1s. Now I'm expecting the Reliant to be very maneuverable because of this despite the length of ship. For a shield on each ship the Alpha and ES both have a Size 2 while the Reliant is a size ???. The concept sale page says a Size 3 but this is tbd like the power plant.
Weapons and Equipment
I like weapons, do you like weapons? The Alpha comes with 2 fixed Size 1 weapons and mounts a turret underneath the cockpit to accommodate a couple more Size 1 weapons. The ES ups this by having 2 fixed Size 2 weapons and a Size 2 missile launcher. Now we get to the Reliant. Like the Alpha it fixes 2 Size 1s beside the cockpit. Down on one wing you have 2 Size 1 missile launchers. The big draw here is the Size 3 mount on the gimbal. From the Q&A you can mount one of 2 things to this: A fixed Size 3 weapon, The stock Size 2 turret with tractor beam or swap for a S2 weapon, and finally you can mount a couple Size 1s as shown in the animation.
As you can clearly see the Reliant has the most options for weaponry. The tractor beam makes it a candidate for S&R because of the additional seat while the other weaponry makes it a worthy space fighter on par with more advanced variants of the other Starters.
For equipment there is nothing to see. Optionally for cargo the ES can take a Mini container that is put underneath the craft. The Alpha? Nothing. The Reliant? They are still discussing if the Reliant will come stock with a Jump Engine or not. All 3 of these ships can be upgraded with a Jump Engine which begs the question of why they don't include Jump Engines as standard equipment on all ships but snub fighters. Seems to be a no brainier.
Continued Below....
Welcome back to Ship Talk! For those of you new to this series(where have you been? Seriously where?), Ship Talk is where I take the current on paper stats for a group of ships similar in either role or hull, analyze them, and give my own thoughts on how they compare to each other. Below you can find links to previous Ship Talks and Ship Talk Commentary. This Ship Talk was a request from thanatos73 and it will compare the 3 Starter Ships as designated by CIG.
Ship Talk #1 - Exploring the Unknown: The top 4 Exploration Ships
Ship Talk #2 - Aurora Rain: All about the MVP of TEST, the Aurora + Variants
Ship Talk #3 - Squadron Reporting - Ship Talk #3 'Fighters' Part 1
Ship Talk #3 - Squadron Reporting - Ship Talk #3 'Fighters' Part 2
Ship Talk #4 - Cargo Cult: The Cargo Haulers
Ship Talk #5 - Avast Me Hearties! - Ship Talk #5: The Cutlass
Ship Talk #6 - Goin Freelance: The Freelancers
Ship Talk #7 - The Redeemer
Ship Talk #8 - Wild Horses: The Mustangs
Ship Talk #9 - Stars Above: The Constellations
Ship Talk #10 - Hornets Attack!: The Hornets
The Aegis Vanguard - Ship Talk Commentary #1
The Hull Series - Ship Talk Commentary #2
The MISC Reliant - Ship Talk Commentary #3
So just a recap here and other info. Last Sunday I put up STC #3 for the Reliant. From the poll and replies I think people like the ship quite a bit. I personally can't wait until we get it in our hands along with the variants. The Reliant Q&A Wednesday can be found here and the one on Friday can be found here. I like these new Q&A they are doing because it enhances the ship in many ways and curbs unreasonable expectations. One thing that did come up and I completely missed this until I saw it on RSI is the cargo capacity of the Reliant is probably very wrong. No Sunder surely not, CIG wouldn't do that to us! I'm afraid it is true. The concept pic shows a 30m³ hold. Therefore the listed value on the site is not in SCU. Derp. I hope in the end it becomes 30 SCU but we will see.
Now the Starter ships are meant to be ships you start out in. Imagine that :). As such they are not the juggernauts of space like other ships and are fairly weak and minimally armed but can do many things. They are also ships you want to get out of asap and into a real ship so you can start down your chosen path. If anyone has played Eve Online you'll remember the starter ship they gave you. It was little more than a bit of protection for your pod but it was maneuverable and would warp quickly.
Disclaimer now, I don't consider the Reliant to be on the same level as the Aurora and the Mustang but a half step above because of its price and capabilities(Which you'll see in glaring detail below) but I still do believe it can be classed as a 'Starter'. From the Q&A of the Reliant Friday: "We’re still working out many of the plans for post-launch, but the current idea is that the Reliant (and similarly priced ‘tier 2’ ships) would be part of slightly more expensive packages. It’s 100% a ship intended to start the game, though! Like the Aurora and the Mustang, the Reliant was designed from the ground up to allow players to experience as many different opportunities in the Star Citizen world as possible." You can draw your own conclusions but I don't think this is anything to worry about and we should embrace because these are going to be starter career ships that are more specialized such as the Terrapin, Dragonfly, and Hurricane.
I'm rambling. I am happy though that my speculation that maybe the 300i could be considered a 'Tier 2' was dead wrong. This will be a rather short Talk because I've done pieces on all of these ships now so please go read those. Anyway let's get to the comparisons and how unfair some of them are:
My Thoughts on the Ships(Mustang Alpha, Aurora ES, Reliant)
General Thoughts on Stats
First let me acknowledge again that these stats and listed equipment are all subject to change. However, unless something drastic occurs in testing I would expect these stats to still give a good overall direction and capability for each ship. Below is a link to a composite picture I made with all the stats listed from the RSI site:
All Starter Stats
Descriptions and Roles
Because each of these ships is stated to be a Starter I think we know what their role is. However the Reliant being what it is as a 'Mini-Hauler" is a bit more specialized than the Aurora ES or the Mustang Alpha but can still fulfill several roles like the others. It is just more geared toward hauling where the others are more generalized. For the descriptions of each ship I would say each one paints a good picture of each in how they can be used.
Structure and Propulsion
Lets get down to the meat of these ships. For cargo capacity you have the Alpha at 10, the ES at 13 if you equip the box. The Reliant is....debatable. As I said at the beginning the concept picture only shows 30m³ which comes out to about 15 SCU. If that is the case it is still a good number but a bit of a letdown. You would be better off at that point getting an Aurora CL to haul with until you got enough to upgrade to a larger ship. For manpower the numbers on the Alpha and Aurora are the same: One. The Reliant of course needs 2 people but this makes it an excellent training vehicle for many types of multi-crew roles, particularly weapons. The max power plants on these ships is a 3 for the Alpha, a 2 for the Aurora and a ??? for the Reliant. The max size for the reliant is listed as a Size 2 on the spec chart on the concept sale page but I'm hoping it is raised to a 3 when they nail it down.
Moving down for max engines you have a couple TR2s for the Alpha. A single TR3 for the Aurora and 2 TR1s for the Reliant. Now wait a second TR1s for that size ship. Yeah.......supposedly the engines for that are really good because it was stated in the Q&A they want it to go faster than an Aurora but slower than the Mustang. This proves that TR ratings are in fact bullshit and a max speed is very arbitrary. I don't discount the idea that alien anything would be much better than our own tech. If you assign a rating to that engine saying it will output X thrust and then say a ship will still move dead slow compared to another despite a lower mass then something is wrong. I'm talking about the Aurora of course.
Moving along to maneuvering thrusters you'll see that the Reliant has 12 while the others have 8 TR1s. Now I'm expecting the Reliant to be very maneuverable because of this despite the length of ship. For a shield on each ship the Alpha and ES both have a Size 2 while the Reliant is a size ???. The concept sale page says a Size 3 but this is tbd like the power plant.
Weapons and Equipment
I like weapons, do you like weapons? The Alpha comes with 2 fixed Size 1 weapons and mounts a turret underneath the cockpit to accommodate a couple more Size 1 weapons. The ES ups this by having 2 fixed Size 2 weapons and a Size 2 missile launcher. Now we get to the Reliant. Like the Alpha it fixes 2 Size 1s beside the cockpit. Down on one wing you have 2 Size 1 missile launchers. The big draw here is the Size 3 mount on the gimbal. From the Q&A you can mount one of 2 things to this: A fixed Size 3 weapon, The stock Size 2 turret with tractor beam or swap for a S2 weapon, and finally you can mount a couple Size 1s as shown in the animation.
As you can clearly see the Reliant has the most options for weaponry. The tractor beam makes it a candidate for S&R because of the additional seat while the other weaponry makes it a worthy space fighter on par with more advanced variants of the other Starters.
For equipment there is nothing to see. Optionally for cargo the ES can take a Mini container that is put underneath the craft. The Alpha? Nothing. The Reliant? They are still discussing if the Reliant will come stock with a Jump Engine or not. All 3 of these ships can be upgraded with a Jump Engine which begs the question of why they don't include Jump Engines as standard equipment on all ships but snub fighters. Seems to be a no brainier.
Continued Below....
