Storing your stuff post 3.15? (30k recovery, new inventory system, etc)

[Bambooza]

I remember hearing the exact same words so I'd hazard to say Yes, it was.
It was also mentioned in the 3 vids I watched about 3.15 word for word by the Noobifier, Bored, and SuperMacBro.

So I finally got time to start watching the Star Citizen Live with Rich Tyrer and he said what I was expecting.

For 3.15 they currently do not have a means to recover non-ship-based account items. These items are not removed from your account just not available to you in-game unless you reset or until 3.16.

Long term
They intend to have a mechanism in-game to recover those items. But it's not clear how it's going to work as they are not sure they want it to be by insurance. So no where did they say the loss would be permanent and Rich was very clear in saying they still don't even know how they want it to work they just know they want it to be lootable/stealable and that they also want a way for you to recover it or be recovered and sent back to you. Which is all within the game design of risk/reward, being able to loot and everything having value. After all how sweet would it be to showcase the fact you have stolen @Montoya beer stein and now he has to drink beer like a commoner from a red cup.

View: https://youtu.be/6LnoH98gpMk?t=853

 

[Bambooza]

A logistical question about ships and vehicles storage.
In the patch note CIG poit out that if you have some land vehicle in you hangar it should be better to choose a home location tha allow for ground vehicles to be spawn.
So how this thing works? if you have some land vehicles are you able to reclaim them at a different location or they are bound to the "home base"?
If you buy a vehicle in game where will the bound to? to the "home base" locattion or to the location you purchase them?

The point is I'll like to set my HB at Orizon, but I'll also like the ability to use a ROC for mining, and since neither Orizon or PO will allow at the moment for vehicles to be spawn untill the ability to spawun vechicles in ships came into the reality that could pose a bit of a problem.

All ships are homed at the spawn location. That means if you pick a home location that does not have a ground vehicle spawn point then you would not be able to access those items. (you can always reset your account and pick a different home spawn location)

Items rented for now seem to be initially bound to the rental location.


I have found so far that the station flying over the primary spawn ports seems to have full access to the main planet spawn location. IE if I selected Lorville as my spawn location I was able to access all of my ships and gear when I went up to the station Everus Harbor. I am not sure if it's a bug or intended.

 

[Talonsbane]

So I don't think they want to offer LTI on these flair items. It would make them infinite items, basically you could dress up your 20 man org in a short time if you just keep allowing them to kill you. Oh and btw, expect to see some kind of lockout introduced for LTI ships as well, otherwise you could just allow your org mates to steal your Carrack until everyone has one.
I don't have a solution for this and it's not my job to find one, but they sure as hell need to think hard and fast about how insurance and paid-for items will work in the long run, because shits getting real.

When it comes to ships, CIG has stated that when you file a claim on your ship, that it nullifies the ability for the person that has possession of it to claim it again if they lose it & possibly place a crime stat on them if they don't return it. Which is how they plan on preventing players from committing that sort of fraud with ships for their friends. The same could easily be done for other items & they could have their LTI status limited to the accounts of those that they are in the account hangars. Thus if a person with a subscription purchases a crap ton of sub flair armor & then gifts it to their friends accounts, then those items could maintain their LTI for them as they would be in the account hangar, not just the in game hangar.

 

[wmk]

So err...what's the plan?

I'm gonna spawn my Carrack and dump all my stuff in there (especially my super special Concierge/Backer crap) that I don't wanna lose lol. Since I rarely fly my Carrack, it'll just be an expensive storage facility heh. (...)

The guys already clarified this -- you don't have to do that, as your stuff would be always available at your home location.
Besides, if you move all your stuff to any spacecraft, you would loose it in case you have to claim that ship.

You may ask why you need to claim your ship even when you're not using it -- please check my response to Cugino below... : )

A logistical question about ships and vehicles storage.
In the patch note CIG poit out that if you have some land vehicle in you hangar it should be better to choose a home location tha allow for ground vehicles to be spawn.
So how this thing works? if you have some land vehicles are you able to reclaim them at a different location or they are bound to the "home base"?
If you buy a vehicle in game where will the bound to? to the "home base" locattion or to the location you purchase them? (...)

You can acess all your ships and vehicles at any location -- you just need to claim them at selected station or outpost, the same way as before, when you wanted to spawn any ship which was in use at least once since last game DB reset or since you have reset your profile.

Once claimed, spacecraft or vehicle is magically transported to the new location; this includes Platinum Bay vehicle spawn points at all planets and moons.

 

[Phil]

Was this made clear in the All About Alpha 3.15?

Yes, at about 14:45 they talk about subscriber and pledged items being taken or lost, the short term is in 3.15 if you die, if you go down, if your ship blows up these items are gone, if someone loots them they are gone you can't get them back. They will reinstate them in 3.16 (if it works)and you will get them back.

They went on to say the long term goal is for this mechanic to stay in the game, if you die you will have to track your body down and retrieve them (because that's real easy right) if someone loots your items they are gone unless they die and you can track them or they get picked up for criminal activity and the A.I. gives them back to you, whose to say they don't loot your items and hang them on their hanger wall? Ya they didn't think this out to well.

What they essentially did was mislead people to thinking these were permanent items you could not lose, they convinced us to spend money in order to get "collectors" or "digital flair" items and are now telling us these items could possibly be lost forever if you die or they get stolen YEARS after some of us have spent the money.

And they already said they would not do insurance on subscriber flair or pledge items.

I am sorry, I will never accept this, if this is the route CIG is taking I want my money back, over 1250.00$ in subs I will put that into a ship that can't be stolen or lost, simple as that.

 

[Phil]

It was also stated that they are aware of the issue and they are thinking about some solution, some of them whare the one expose above.
It's amazing how after almost 10 years people still whinning about future thing that are not even fully planned and "problem" do to the "temporary" state of the game....

After almost 6 years of subs and 1250.00$ dollars in subscription fee's I feel I have the right to "whine" as you put it. When its your $$ you can do what you want and I won't tell you how to act.

 

[Talonsbane]

I'm doing my best to not bitch about this, but I do clearly feel that IF CIG is going to go back on their word about things, especially things that we the backers have paid cash money for, then they should do so in our favor over theirs. ie those items bought with cash or obtained through subscriptions that are in the account hangars should be granted LTI for those that have them in their account hangar, those purchased in game with in game currency or that obtained them in any manner other than them being added to the players account hangar, should not. This is the easiest solution that I can think of that would work out best for CIG & us backers long term.

 

[Phil]

When it comes to ships, CIG has stated that when you file a claim on your ship, that it nullifies the ability for the person that has possession of it to claim it again if they lose it & possibly place a crime stat on them if they don't return it. Which is how they plan on preventing players from committing that sort of fraud with ships for their friends. The same could easily be done for other items & they could have their LTI status limited to the accounts of those that they are in the account hangars. Thus if a person with a subscription purchases a crap ton of sub flair armor & then gifts it to their friends accounts, then those items could maintain their LTI for them as they would be in the account hangar, not just the in game hangar.

I won't pretend there aren't issues with subscriber flair and pledge items, I can see a slew of issues coming from it, what I can't and won't accept is after people have been subbing for over half the games development they come out and piss all over the subscribers back and act like its nothing. I mean referrals get streamers thousands of dollars worth of ships and those streamers may have put in less than 100$ all they did was get a bunch of other people to buy into the game yet they get rewarded more than the people who actually fronted their own cash, sorry I don't see the comparison, CIG rewards the streamers and gave incentives to do so and some walked away with a dozen ships one of them being a Javelin worth 3k dollars alone, fact is a streamer could put in a basic starter package pledge and get treated better than someone like me who put in thousands of dollars out of his pocket... its laughable and I understand streamers help the game with referrals I really do and I am not in no means asking for a Javelin and a dozen ships to compensate my subscriptions but hell a few guns, some armor and hanger flair for 1250.00$ and now your telling me half that stuff could be a 1 time use? GTFO

 

[Talonsbane]

As for the in game chalice of @Montoya , if it goes missing from his table, I'd suggest looking around the various TESTies there. Because I'd suspect that it was being repeatedly filled with alcohol, used for consumption & passed around like the Stanley Cup after each hockey championship. This being said, whoever ends up being caught with it, owes @Montoya a drink. Cheers!

 

[Phil]

So I finally got time to start watching the Star Citizen Live with Rich Tyrer and he said what I was expecting.

For 3.15 they currently do not have a means to recover non-ship-based account items. These items are not removed from your account just not available to you in-game unless you reset or until 3.16.

Long term
They intend to have a mechanism in-game to recover those items. But it's not clear how it's going to work as they are not sure they want it to be by insurance. So no where did they say the loss would be permanent and Rich was very clear in saying they still don't even know how they want it to work they just know they want it to be lootable/stealable and that they also want a way for you to recover it or be recovered and sent back to you. Which is all within the game design of risk/reward, being able to loot and everything having value. After all how sweet would it be to showcase the fact you have stolen @Montoya beer stein and now he has to drink beer like a commoner from a red cup.

View: https://youtu.be/6LnoH98gpMk?t=853

I will be honest, I don't care what they come up, this was never in the subscriber details, its fraud. I shouldn't have to track someone down in a bounty mission to get MY stuff back. Never.

 

[Talonsbane]

I won't pretend there aren't issues with subscriber flair and pledge items, I can see a slew of issues coming from it, what I can't and won't accept is after people have been subbing for over half the games development they come out and piss all over the subscribers back and act like its nothing. I mean referrals get streamers thousands of dollars worth of ships and those streamers may have put in less than 100$ all they did was get a bunch of other people to buy into the game yet they get rewarded more than the people who actually fronted their own cash, sorry I don't see the comparison, CIG rewards the streamers and gave incentives to do so and some walked away with a dozen ships one of them being a Javelin worth 3k dollars alone, fact is a streamer could put in a basic starter package pledge and get treated better than someone like me who put in thousands of dollars out of his pocket... its laughable and I understand streamers help the game with referrals I really do and I am not in no means asking for a Javelin and a dozen ships to compensate my subscriptions but hell a few guns, some armor and hanger flair for 1250.00$ and now your telling me half that stuff could be a 1 time use? GTFO

My friend, I understand your point & I agree with you about how BS the situation is. There has to be some sort or fair & reasonable solution to this matter, especially for those of us that have been backing with our own hard earned funds. I'm just trying to focus on some sort of positive solution that can be feasible.

 

[Phil]

My friend, I understand your point & I agree with you about how BS the situation is. There has to be some sort or fair & reasonable solution to this matter, especially for those of us that have been backing with our own hard earned funds. I'm just trying to focus on some sort of positive solution that can be feasible.

I honestly think once they hear the complaints they will walk back on this especially when the word REFUND comes out.

What bothers me is so many people siding with CIG in this, I have no issues with CIG going down this path, just give me my money back or store credits and I'll buy some ships.

 

[Aramsolari]

I honestly think once they hear the complaints they will walk back on this especially when the word REFUND comes out.

What bothers me is so many people siding with CIG in this, I have no issues with CIG going down this path, just give me my money back or store credits and I'll buy some ships.

Don't think many folks here are siding with CIG over this. I think we're taking the 'CIG's being kinda vague...let's not jump to conclusions' kinda stance.

I'm all in favor of speaking up, especially on Spectrum. Stir up the masses over there and raise up a big enough stink and CIG will give pause on the 'permanent loss' changes they may (or may not be) contemplating.

 

[Bambooza]

Don't think many folks here are siding with CIG over this. I think we're taking the 'CIG's being kinda vague...let's not jump to conclusions' kinda stance.

I'm all in favor of speaking up, especially on Spectrum. Stir up the masses over there and raise up a big enough stink and CIG will give pause on the 'permanent loss' changes they may (or may not be) contemplating.

Same. But so far I have not seen any evidence of CIG saying that there is any sort of permanent loss in fact as I linked in the video Rich clearly said that there is no intention of permanent loss they fully want players to get back their lost items they just don't know by what game mechanic they want it to be accomplished. (3.15 is a special case and should not be projected forward as the loss is due to incomplete game mechanics and not a design choice). So I am baffled by this hostility towards a game feature and projecting a permanent loss of any purchased game item when they have been very clear that is not their intention and they do not know yet how they are going to deal with situations where players lose their items in-game.

Unless you are saying the state of 3.15 is how purchased items are going to be treated by CIG going forward in which case I can only once again point you towards the information and hope it finally sinks in.

 

[Lorddarthvik]

I've deleted and re-written my reply so many fuckin times now, the thread just keeps going! chill out guys! lol There is nothing to argue unless we get a clarification from CIG really...

So I finally got time to start watching the Star Citizen Live with Rich Tyrer and he said what I was expecting.

For 3.15 they currently do not have a means to recover non-ship-based account items. These items are not removed from your account just not available to you in-game unless you reset or until 3.16.

Long term
They intend to have a mechanism in-game to recover those items. But it's not clear how it's going to work as they are not sure they want it to be by insurance. So no where did they say the loss would be permanent and Rich was very clear in saying they still don't even know how they want it to work they just know they want it to be lootable/stealable and that they also want a way for you to recover it or be recovered and sent back to you. Which is all within the game design of risk/reward, being able to loot and everything having value. After all how sweet would it be to showcase the fact you have stolen @Montoya beer stein and now he has to drink beer like a commoner from a red cup.

View: https://youtu.be/6LnoH98gpMk?t=853

I love it how all you keep saying the same thing as pro and contra.... TEST at it's BEST! lol

TLDR: CIG should have learned by now to not randomly think aloud in vids about things (especially if it involves cash), just state the final solutions when done figuring it out!

@Bambooza
I'm talking long term here, cos 3.15 and short term never seemed to be the issue? Or am I just assuming everyone understood this from the first moment cos I did? Anyways...
There is a difference between technically not lost forever, and practically lost forever. The solutions implied that it was a question of chance (AI) or something that the other player could prevent because it involved gameplay and effort. So while technically they were still in your account, they could be practically lost for a long ass time, or even forever if the other player could do something about it. These half-statments shouldn't have happened. You paid for it, you should have permanent convenient access to it, just like you do to your ships. This is what's expected, and thus the uproar about it is very much valid.

Even though CiG could just come out and say that the ToS of the subscription states "xyz" which means they don't owe you anything ( Don't know, never read it). You are paying to support them making weekly youtube videos and such, not to get a permanent access armory of unique armor. In theory at least.
Would be suicide for them to do so, but I'm guessing technically they would be in the right there...

Just like with ship insurance. They have been baiting ppl with the insurance time on ships since the beginning, yet we still have no clue what that means. There is no value to base it's worth on.
LTI, you don't ever lose it, fine, but you all really think it will fly that you Can permanently lose access to a cash-paid ship because your insurance lapsed?? While they have been implying that you will lose your cash-ship permanently if you don't have insurance, that's not a gameplay feature, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen! Clearly something that will not happen on release, no matter how much they want it to be a thing and said so in previous posts and vids and whatnot. It just won't.
With CIG now saying they don't want you to lose access to your cash-shop items either, it's pretty clear. So insurance time was a scam as well? While they can still go either way, it will hurt someone's wallet no matter what they decide on in the end.
The point is, there is a whole host of issues with the cash items and vehicles that needs to be figured out and cleared up, the sooner the better, cos we are getting to the point that it matters.

 

[Bambooza]

I've deleted and re-written my reply so many fuckin times now, the thread just keeps going! chill out guys! lol There is nothing to argue unless we get a clarification from CIG really...



I love it how all you keep saying the same thing as pro and contra.... TEST at it's BEST! lol

TLDR: CIG should have learned by now to not randomly think aloud in vids about things (especially if it involves cash), just state the final solutions when done figuring it out!

I'm talking long term here, cos 3.15 and short term never seemed to be the issue? Or am I just assuming everyone understood this from the first moment cos I did? Anyways...
There is a difference between technically not lost forever, and practically lost forever. The solutions implied that it was a question of chance (AI) or something that the other player could prevent because it involved gameplay and effort. So while technically they were still in your account, they could be practically lost for a long ass time, or even forever if the other player could do something about it. These half-statments shouldn't have happened. You paid for it, you should have permanent convenient access to it, just like you do to your ships. This is what's expected, and thus the uproar about it is very much valid.

I honestly don't know if a lot of the uproar is about the perceived perm lost of hanger items in 3.15 or if it's not understanding that the perm lost in 3.15 is not the intended state of hanger items. Even in Concierge there is tons of threads on the subject and it seems people are confused or confusing each other as to if they are upset with perma loss being a real thing (not understanding that is a temporary thing due to game features not all being in place with 3.15) or with other understanding. In fact, there is a whole thread on how those who did no buy/sub should not be allowed to have skins like the gold gun/armor and that if a player steals it from them that they should just get the base armor and not the skin.


@Bambooza
Even though CiG could just come out and say that the ToS of the subscription states "xyz" which means they don't owe you anything ( Don't know, never read it). You are paying to support them making weekly youtube videos and such, not to get a permanent access armory of unique armor. In theory at least.
Would be suicide for them to do so, but I'm guessing technically they would be in the right there...

No, I do not think they will push the issue.

Just like with ship insurance. They have been baiting ppl with the insurance time on ships since the beginning, yet we still have no clue what that means. There is no value to base it's worth on.
LTI, you don't ever lose it, fine, but you all really think it will fly that you Can permanently lose access to a cash-paid ship because your insurance lapsed?? While they have been implying that you will lose your cash-ship permanently if you don't have insurance, that's not a gameplay feature, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen! Clearly something that will not happen on release, no matter how much they want it to be a thing and said so in previous posts and vids and whatnot. It just won't.
With CIG now saying they don't want you to lose access to your cash-shop items either, it's pretty clear. So insurance time was a scam as well? While they can still go either way, it will hurt someone's wallet no matter what they decide on in the end.
The point is, there is a whole host of issues with the cash items and vehicles that needs to be figured out and cleared up, the sooner the better, cos we are getting to the point that it matters.

This gets sticky but honestly, you are not entitled to your ship. It was a gift for backing the project, not a purchased item so as much as we complain about it and feel like we can sue it once again falls into the ToS and all the other agreements we did not read and just clicked accept as fast as possible to complete the transaction. But at the same time, CIG is well aware they live at our happiness in the project, and as much as we should be aware that we are not buying ships it's still the common perception and that is important. This is why years ago they talked about even if you let your insurance lapse on a ship acquired from backing and then lose it you will still have the means to acquire another at a discounted cost (ie punishment for taking the risk of not paying the insurance but not being completely harsh about it) They also said that the ship hull cost is going to be but a part of the total ship cost ie components, cargo, supplies and personal and so its really advantageous not to lose one's ship.

I think my biggest wtf moment is the leap in conclusions about the length of time based upon the comment Rich made in regards to a possible option in that it would be a physicalized item and bound to the player as a unique id. In no way was it mentioned If it would take days or weeks or if you would need to recover the lost item from the market before you can have it back. In fact, it could just be you would need to go back to a vendor or special kiosk in a major spaceport and buy it again. We honestly don't know how it's going to work all we know is CIG has stated they do not want us to permanently lose hanger items and they do not know how it's going to work. Everything beyond that is speculation on our part and it seems to be feeding this hysteria of CIG is going to allow hanger items to be permanently taken away from you on the first death or stolen from your hanger. I am not sure where it's coming from as I feel CIG has been pretty clear in that they want risk/reward they want death to have a significant impact (and it takes a lot to achieve) and they have also been clear in that they don't want people to permanently loose things they got as a backer reward. How they go about balancing all of that is anyone's guess but that's all it is, a guess as from the sounds of it CIG doesn't even know how they want to implement it.

 

[Aramsolari]

Crap. What have I started?

 

[NaffNaffBobFace]

Crap. What have I started?

Askin' the big questions is almost like seeing a big button that says 'do not press' - it is the TESTly way to ask them :-)

 

[Lorddarthvik]

No, I do not think they will push the issue.



This gets sticky but honestly, you are not entitled to your ship. It was a gift for backing the project, not a purchased item so as much as we complain about it and feel like we can sue it once again falls into the ToS and all the other agreements we did not read and just clicked accept as fast as possible to complete the transaction. But at the same time, CIG is well aware they live at our happiness in the project, and as much as we should be aware that we are not buying ships it's still the common perception and that is important. This is why years ago they talked about even if you let your insurance lapse on a ship acquired from backing and then lose it you will still have the means to acquire another at a discounted cost (ie punishment for taking the risk of not paying the insurance but not being completely harsh about it) They also said that the ship hull cost is going to be but a part of the total ship cost ie components, cargo, supplies and personal and so its really advantageous not to lose one's ship.

I think my biggest wtf moment is the leap in conclusions about the length of time based upon the comment Rich made in regards to a possible option in that it would be a physicalized item and bound to the player as a unique id. In no way was it mentioned If it would take days or weeks or if you would need to recover the lost item from the market before you can have it back. In fact, it could just be you would need to go back to a vendor or special kiosk in a major spaceport and buy it again. We honestly don't know how it's going to work all we know is CIG has stated they do not want us to permanently lose hanger items and they do not know how it's going to work. Everything beyond that is speculation on our part and it seems to be feeding this hysteria of CIG is going to allow hanger items to be permanently taken away from you on the first death or stolen from your hanger. I am not sure where it's coming from as I feel CIG has been pretty clear in that they want risk/reward they want death to have a significant impact (and it takes a lot to achieve) and they have also been clear in that they don't want people to permanently loose things they got as a backer reward. How they go about balancing all of that is anyone's guess but that's all it is, a guess as from the sounds of it CIG doesn't even know how they want to implement it.

Agreed on the first part.

As for the second part, this is what happens when you run a game for years where death has no consequences. People get used to it.
I think the mention of anything other than a concrete answer of "you can get it back in x minutes if you push this one button on your mobiglass" will create confusion that will lead to assumptions and drama. Ppl don't want to hear that it might take days or weeks. Ppl don't want to hear that Cig might want to involve their precious armor pieces in gameplay that takes time, cos who knows what they will come up with. I don't want to hear another "we don't know yet" after almost 10 friggin years!
Clearly, some Ppl (wrongly) treat the subscription as their personal armory of endless goodies. Like ya know, the cash shop of your regular pay to win game, cos currently that's all it is. Cig allowed this to happen by treating the subflair like this, basically ignoring its gameplay implications, or at least failing to clarify this towards the players. Other than pushing out more crap, and advertising it more prominently by mentioning it in more videos what this month's subflair is they haven't done anything with it, now they need to fix it. So yeah, they better elaborate on this and put out some sort of clarification.

Crap. What have I started?

You just asked where to put your stuff so I don't see how is this not just us derailing your thread slightly in true test fashion lol

 

[Phil]

I have watched the video numerous times now and again it was clear what their long term goals are.

He said clearly, no insurance, he said there would be ways to "get your items back" meaning they are lost until you GET THEM BACK.

Two ways to get them back... one being track the items that were taken by someone like a bounty hunting mission or if you died you can track your body down and recover them.

The second way is report the items stolen and if that person is apprehended by the A.I. you will get them back IF they are on his person.

They said neither way was guaranteed to get your items back.

This was clearly stated in their video, there was no if ands or buts about it, they said this was the long term goal.

Now here is the problem, I dont do bounty hunting missions, this game isn't just PVP so let's say I get jumped doing a mining or a search and rescue whatever they kill me and take my subscriber flair items, I have two options, hunt them down and try to recover my items or wait for the A.I. to get them back for me, this is assuming they don't take your gear back to their hanger and hang it on their wall as a decoration because we know personal loot and loot storage or hanger storage is completely separate.

I shouldn't be once again forced into a game loop I don't want to do to retrieve items I paid for without knowing up front before I paid for them they could be lost forever or I would have to invest time into getting them back.. And just to reiterate it they used the words "potentially" &"permanently" not me.

What bothers me is so many people chiming in about how it's not a big deal or that's not what they said, it is what they said and again I'm going to say to those who didn't invest in the subscriptions or pledge items its really none of your business, the people who did are the ones who should have the opinions on this as it's our investment not yours.