My first and gut reaction, was of course a big fat NO! They made their choice. However, business is business. Even heretic money is good money. So in that aspect, yea. Give them their founder kit back. Take their money. It will fund the game just as well as our cash. Ultimately, that's all I want. I just want to play this game in it's finished form. If their request helps us get there, than I'm all for it.
The nonbelievers are returning..
- Thread starter Bigcracker
- Start date
I say refund them. They were promised 18 months to two years for the game's release when the hanger came out. So deadlines were not honoured. They want to be a pest - I say lets get rid of them - GOODBYE !
Why fuel their desire to get all mad and upset. There has been legal precedence that shows anyone going to court will get thier money back ASAP. CIG has little to no chance legally from not returning the funds. Why not just give it to them, so we don't have them bad mouthing us for the next 4 years as SC hits Live.
This game is highly ambitious, and many many features have been scrapped and started over and over again, like the helmet that we had to put on to get into Arena commander and other things. We're in untested waters. It's going to take twice as long as any other AAA game. Triple-A games also take 4-8 years to make. Deal with it.
actually according to the new terms and conditions, along with the original T&C way back when plus add in the fact that CIG themselves said 18mo-2 years for something with no where near what they are going with it at this point. And technically, the game is available to play and test., CIG has a really good chance in court assuming they have a lawyer that is up to snuff on the gaming industry.
No, they do not. There is precedence from previous similar cases. Even some involving SC. Do you know anything about practicing law ? CIG/RSI have little to no hope of keeping any money from anyone backing this project, regardless of thier terms and conditions. There is international laws and federal laws showing how to handle such cases as well, most of which do not recognise any rights for digital goods or donations to kickstarter games. From what you can see in all cases, all backers for every kickstarter that went to court, have settled immediately and gotten thier funds back. No case has gone further, and there is hundreds of cases.
Now, course, as a business, your terms and conditions are simply an agreement between buyer/seller or however you want to term your relationship, but that does not mean it is enforced by state or federal law or international, there are stronger laws protecting you if you did not get tangible goods or services from your donations. Only registered non-profit organizations have a chance of keeping thier donations - and even they lose in court ALL THE TIME. not only have the red crosses terms and conditions been looked over by dozens of lawyers and made as picture perfect as possible - even that loses in court. It's got to be one of the best and most known organizations for donations and help and relief for real SAR to who knows what. With them, it has to be within a certain time period, and you could not have claimed any tax relief from it, and you must not be a business yourself having been the donor either. Course, if you do not try to go to court or bring any lawful force into play, they might simply try and keep your money and argue with you to see who's virtually in control.
But yeah - there's little to no choice for CIG/RSI but to refund you if you flex hard enough and try legal proceedings. It would also be bad press and cost them more in the end. They would not only lose in court but have to pay the fee's of BOTH lawyers most likely and compensate the party issuing the demands for thier time and effort too.They would simply have to prove thier intent was given, in a reasonable way and allowed CIG a reasonable amount of time to respond, and they would get thier money back.
SO - to avoid headaches and making a mess out of something that really shouldn't be such an issue, just give the person thier refunds. We could call the person names or say they are not loyal, we do not know thier situation 100%. It might be against what we promised when we pledged, but no matter what you promise, you still do not give up your actual international, federal and local laws and rights.
Also, there is tons of precedence showing that the laws state regardless of amount spent, the value is the base value for digital goods , they word it in some way to explain, that the goods in a game are equal to but not more then the base value of the game itself. So in this case, the StarCitizen package for 45$ or something... All cases of videogame refunds with credit bureaus are granted instant refunds without having to be researched. The credit companies simply hold the money and refund, instantly for any game under 60$ used to be 40$ (which was based off another international law, for goods under 40$USD etc.. but the precedence now is changing, and think its 60$)
So, if someone does a charge back, and links all money to a single company, and explains its virtual goods, and the only thing you got was a single account , with virtual goods, and nothing tangible, without anything mailed to you, no tracking no signature, nothing - you would get a refund without even going to court. They might make you go through loops though, since it would be a lot of hard work, and trust me, CIG/RSI would comply very quickly if some large payment processor started to put them on the block. If they had an open case unsettled a few times a month, then all payments made to RSI/CIG would be put on hold for 48 hours. This would technically be an easy way to get your money back or cause a lot of grief for cig/rsi
they know this though, and would just give the refund, otherwise they would lose more money and again cause more negative press. Let bygones be bygones and give the guy his refund so they can go away and have nothing but good things to say about the game and it's community.
So, if someone does a charge back, and links all money to a single company, and explains its virtual goods, and the only thing you got was a single account , with virtual goods, and nothing tangible, without anything mailed to you, no tracking no signature, nothing - you would get a refund without even going to court. They might make you go through loops though, since it would be a lot of hard work, and trust me, CIG/RSI would comply very quickly if some large payment processor started to put them on the block. If they had an open case unsettled a few times a month, then all payments made to RSI/CIG would be put on hold for 48 hours. This would technically be an easy way to get your money back or cause a lot of grief for cig/rsi
they know this though, and would just give the refund, otherwise they would lose more money and again cause more negative press. Let bygones be bygones and give the guy his refund so they can go away and have nothing but good things to say about the game and it's community.
They've rustled our RobertsThe Roberts can be a kind god though,
You're our moral compass :D
i would be really upset if those refunded peoples where able to reverse it and get there original packages back... it would be totaly unfair to all the peoples that have pledged and stayed with it and also unfair to all the new pledgee that wont be able to get access to those perks because they are no longuer avaible
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right, as a pledger we would be going against what we kind of invisibly agreed to do, it's not exactly fair.
Youd also get a lot of assholes repledging just to get their original backer stuff back and grey market it at a profit
DragonHeart
Space Marshal
I agree.
We took the risk and stayed.
Those who chuck a tantrum and left with a refund, shouldn't be given anything back.
They are welcome to start a new pledge though.
Sounds about right.
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well that sounds like an exploit, however, does it really hurt anyone ? Kind of - who cares what other people do - I know what I am going to do, and I'm fine with that. No ?
I'm okay with it. True new people (like myself) won't get those perks, but I also don't think new players (or me) care to much.
Reverse your refund and give you the original package back...?
Return to Go, do not collect original backing perks, do not have S42 included in your pledge package, do not receive LTI.
Consider yourselves lucky we do not abandon you in some backwater with nothing but a Dragonfly for transport.
Return to Go, do not collect original backing perks, do not have S42 included in your pledge package, do not receive LTI.
Consider yourselves lucky we do not abandon you in some backwater with nothing but a Dragonfly for transport.
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makute
Space Marshal
I don't know what would the Kickstarter backers think about that...
See here's the thing: Those rewards? Those are for being a supporter. Those are for having given CIG money back when they needed it, back when they were a brand-new game and weren't the titanic powerhouse they've become. Those are supposed to be a special thank-you for having faith in them back when much fewer people did.
But these chucklefucks? They made CIG give the money back. They didn't support CIG then, and they certainly don't support CIG now - they just want to get in on the fun, and want to have a leg-up on the newer supporters by any means possible.
They're not supporters. CIG shouldn't treat them like supporters. Otherwise they risk alienating their actual supporters.
I know I certainly wouldn't take kindly to finding out I could have just taken my money back when things got tight, then come back whining and crying and gotten all my good-faith rewards again when things were stable.
But these chucklefucks? They made CIG give the money back. They didn't support CIG then, and they certainly don't support CIG now - they just want to get in on the fun, and want to have a leg-up on the newer supporters by any means possible.
They're not supporters. CIG shouldn't treat them like supporters. Otherwise they risk alienating their actual supporters.
I know I certainly wouldn't take kindly to finding out I could have just taken my money back when things got tight, then come back whining and crying and gotten all my good-faith rewards again when things were stable.
I'd hate to see the CSR's have to shuffle to lift a finger to return a "closed" account to it's former status. I agree with Beerjerky, let them get noob stuff and whatever someone approaching the game at this point would have
NO they can all F off. Have you seen the BS on starcitizen_refunds. Let them have a refund and then never let them come back.
I hate myself for actually doing it, but I read through his twitter feed and it seems like that was just a joke. The picture also looks really poorly photoshopped.
It seems extra-specially fishy when you consider the blog post he made just a week before.
makute
Space Marshal
I'm sorry. I can't get past that gif...