Awesome video you have here.
this might helps someone alot :)
this might helps someone alot :)
Yup, it matters to SC because SC recognizes Joy1, joy2, joy3. Order of plugging them in matters. Target makes flightstick and throttle one joy.
Yes, matters to to SC if they aren't combined using target, but with target they are automatically combined, then you just need to make sure that the virtual device is called on by the right number, so if your pedals are joy1 and the virtual device joy2 then you switch it up. however the statement i made about when use target the stick and throttle load order doesnt matter is still true.
This is because SC is no longer calling on them as individual devices but as one device linked through the target software.
So in my case, i have my MFG's plugged in, and they always load as joy 3 when windows boots, the stick and throttle always load as 1 and 2 (not respectively exclusive for some reason) now when i load the target script, it unloads the stick and throttle and reloads the virtual device. The virtual device then automatically becomes joy 1 under windows, and my MFG never changes from joy 3 because its never reloaded. this in turn means that SC is reading devices joy 1 and joy 3, and i have no joy 2 slot plugged in unless i plug in a 3rd device while the first 2 are still connected in target. However, when i stop the target script, it unloads the virtual device, and reloads the stick and throttle as individual devices, returning them to joy 1 and joy 2.
Now, i have plenty of open ports, and i can shift the ports that they are plugged into around, the only time it changes what order they are loaded as is if i unplug all 3 joy devices and plug them in in a different order. However, i have also noticed, this doesnt always change joy assignments, but windows 10 doesnt like ports being switch and has to reload the drivers anytime i plug them into a new port xD
This is because SC is no longer calling on them as individual devices but as one device linked through the target software.
So in my case, i have my MFG's plugged in, and they always load as joy 3 when windows boots, the stick and throttle always load as 1 and 2 (not respectively exclusive for some reason) now when i load the target script, it unloads the stick and throttle and reloads the virtual device. The virtual device then automatically becomes joy 1 under windows, and my MFG never changes from joy 3 because its never reloaded. this in turn means that SC is reading devices joy 1 and joy 3, and i have no joy 2 slot plugged in unless i plug in a 3rd device while the first 2 are still connected in target. However, when i stop the target script, it unloads the virtual device, and reloads the stick and throttle as individual devices, returning them to joy 1 and joy 2.
Now, i have plenty of open ports, and i can shift the ports that they are plugged into around, the only time it changes what order they are loaded as is if i unplug all 3 joy devices and plug them in in a different order. However, i have also noticed, this doesnt always change joy assignments, but windows 10 doesnt like ports being switch and has to reload the drivers anytime i plug them into a new port xD
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I never unplug them and if I do, then my procedure does well. Another weird thing, everywhere I read that you shouldn't use an USB hub for the warthog / throttle... :p
Since I builded my primitive game seat, the flightstick USB cable has to go behind my chair. I didn't found my USB extension cable so I just used a USB hub. Never got any problem with it. It is a cheap hub without a power supply.
I heard that too, never had a problem, the way my desk is setup, and when i transfer it to my DCS Cockpit build, it always gets plugged into a hub, never had any issues with it so far. But then again, the 'Hog has been around a while, and USB tech has improved alot since the 'Hog came out.
My cockpit build doesnt allow the cables from the stick or throttle to reach the tower sitting at the front of the build, so USB hubs mounted in the build were necessary. and my desk doesnt have room for the tower underneath or on top so the cables that go behind the screen are all plugged into a hub if they aren't long enough, which my throttle's isnt.
Same here, connecting Stick and Throttle via USB Hub on my Keyboard (Roccat Ryos MK Pro)
I used a hub for a while as well and it worked fine for a while. Cortana lead me to believe the hub was bad when she got involved not letting go of some old cam drivers.
Firmware updates are not recommended to be done on a hub though.
I have no idea why nor do I care. Good hubs work fine.
Firmware updates are not recommended to be done on a hub though.
I have no idea why nor do I care. Good hubs work fine.
I can't vouch for it personally.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/331452/x56-hotas-profile-for-star-citizen-v2-4-0#latest
It does make sense to get the stick plugged in and recognized before you fire up SC for sure.
It would be difficult to get past the initial loading of the Target script (which is run before SC) as well without the stick connected.
I doubt you would get main=0 when firing up the script without devices attached.
Everyone is going to have a different procedure that works for them. A lot of people are going to have old non supported usb drivers that can just camp out forever in the depths of win 10, the registry and actually all over the place, even after install. They may go unnoticed for years and only surface in certain instances. They CAN mess up the ordering process since the fact that they are not win10 certified means they may or may not follow win10 rules. Sure they may appear to work but require strange startup procedures to ensure they do. They can really cause problems. USE win10 certified stuff. (I won't mention my non win 10 certified hub that is running 7 other devices here including gaming mouse and jeyboard ;) Those devices don't need special places in relation to others in the usb ordering.
If you are not using Target, where you plug them in matters. The behavior on some hubs IS different than going to some boards or cards. I wanted to see why a lot of sim people were saying "don't use a hub" now I know why.
The behavior of ordering on hubs does not appear to be the same as outside of hubs.
Yes they both work in Target however, personally, I will never put my TM or future MFG devices on a hub. I did. It worked but it was odd how one time it would change locations and one time it would change back. It makes sense now.
I have moved 7 other devices to my hub (not win10 certified, oops) instead. But really, it was fine. It worked. Knowing what went on told me I could make it behave the way I wanted. My case does not reflect what 99.9% of other people's cases. I elected to do something that most people may not ever do or it could be a while before they try it and officially I forget what I did *cough* *w*.
It really is way too deep into places in Windows to explain with my poor layman's brain.
You're right. With the solarfly setup, it's a bit of a moot point. It no longer matters as much. In Star Citizen with the Target script..
Still I got into the nitty gritty of it. If plugged into the same port, my stick is always first and my throttle is always second no matter what now.
I play other things that require my stick and throttle with no need to use Target and since I haven't got into scripting with it myself, I elected to solve the deep root win 10 usb problem on my own machine. I am NOT going to reboot 3 times to get a device combo working every time.
I can plug them in whatever order I want as long as they plug in where they are originally from without Target running and stick is on top. Always. I have never had to reboot. Windows 10. I never ran Windows 7 and so I can't comment but the behavior of USB devices seems to be different. I will attach a video to the bottom to prove the behavior of mine.
So what matters to you or someone else may not matter to me and vice versa.
With the Target script now apparently it's not a big deal.
I just tossed 120 hand written pages of testing and learning some win10 usb stuff in my burn pile.
At least in my research and the results thereof, I can now smack down some stuff that I never could before.
Cortana has been warned. Do not mess with me again or you are gone..permanently.
A lot of folks like to make their own profile outside of Target. This stuff has merit to them. It can be a bear.
All the ordering rules come back into play. Every machine is a different problem.
It is always going to be comparing apples and oranges. I can only share my own experiences.
Marc, In this case, as you can see in the following video at the end, the behavior of our machines differs. I suspect you are running a hub. Is that correct? The answer will help my research into usb and win10 stuff.
I certainly could not put up with having to reboot three times to get my devices working.
I like my flight sims too. I do not like having to exit a sim, to deal with a usb ordering problem.
All usb hubs and cards are not created equal at all. Everyone is going to have different behaviors to a point..
The variety of computer stuff produced in who knows where that come with little or no instructions, no drivers, a 404 error website and total inoperable junk is not small. I just tossed 2 PCI and PCIE usb cards into the garbage today. My fault for being cheap. Money wasted.
So we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Everyone's case is going to be a bit different.
In my case, the order I plug mine in makes no difference. Where I plug them does and I stand by my original thoughts on plugging in the wartog stick and throttle setup. Luckily Solarfly has made a number of profiles to suit a number of situations.
Only an exceptional human being would put so much time and effort into this.
me neither, I just leave them plugged in ;) My chair is fixed so there is no need to unplug..
Yeah. Originally I made 2 slide outs for my desk. One has the stick and throttle mounted.
I haven't slide them out since the day I built it but I did have to plug and unplug them lots until I got my hub devices right since I ran out of usb slots.
I can nicely rest my wrist on the throttle with it full forward when EVA or on foot and I kept the stick to the right so I could still reach the keyboard. It's a nasty way to type though. I'll remove it if I decided to write a book maybe or maybe to hide it if the relative's kids come by. Always a goods plan ;).
I might like a chair someday. A full Hornet Tracker interior would be cool too.
Mind you I sat in the most comfortable chair at Staples the other day.
Regardless, this won't be my final setup. More mods will come but that's winter work.
I usually get 3-5 years out of a computer build.
This one is 1.5 years since the build. I am drooling over the new GPUs, CPUs, memory specs, VR devices. Everything.
Some sims and games like SC make me want to upgrade daily. *sigh*
Priorities make patience imperative at this point in time.
I haven't slide them out since the day I built it but I did have to plug and unplug them lots until I got my hub devices right since I ran out of usb slots.
I can nicely rest my wrist on the throttle with it full forward when EVA or on foot and I kept the stick to the right so I could still reach the keyboard. It's a nasty way to type though. I'll remove it if I decided to write a book maybe or maybe to hide it if the relative's kids come by. Always a goods plan ;).
I might like a chair someday. A full Hornet Tracker interior would be cool too.
Mind you I sat in the most comfortable chair at Staples the other day.
Regardless, this won't be my final setup. More mods will come but that's winter work.
I usually get 3-5 years out of a computer build.
This one is 1.5 years since the build. I am drooling over the new GPUs, CPUs, memory specs, VR devices. Everything.
Some sims and games like SC make me want to upgrade daily. *sigh*
Priorities make patience imperative at this point in time.
well, thats a lot to read, but you are 100% correct, and just like no to people are the exact same, no 2 computer setups are the exact same, and each will have their quirks and oddities.
Personally, i have yet to actually run into a problem with joy position other than with autohotkey scripts for my voiceattack/JTAC setup for DCS, however DCS also use the Device MAC ID rather than windows load order to detect and map the controller. hence even with my throttle as device 1 and my stick as device 3 and my rudders as device 2, DCS will always know what is mapped to which controller. even if they were mapped when stick = 1 throttle = 2 and pedals = 3.
However, Star Citizen isnt the same, and with the solarfly script it makes it easy to have it become a non-issue, also, for those not familiar with target, you can actually get a simple script that combines the devices to 1 virtual device, and then map the controls manually through SC. I actually tested this myself, and its doable. This in turn pretty much eliminates the load order problem as long as the virtual device is always loaded to the same spot. which on *MY* pc it always has been so far.
Personally, i have yet to actually run into a problem with joy position other than with autohotkey scripts for my voiceattack/JTAC setup for DCS, however DCS also use the Device MAC ID rather than windows load order to detect and map the controller. hence even with my throttle as device 1 and my stick as device 3 and my rudders as device 2, DCS will always know what is mapped to which controller. even if they were mapped when stick = 1 throttle = 2 and pedals = 3.
However, Star Citizen isnt the same, and with the solarfly script it makes it easy to have it become a non-issue, also, for those not familiar with target, you can actually get a simple script that combines the devices to 1 virtual device, and then map the controls manually through SC. I actually tested this myself, and its doable. This in turn pretty much eliminates the load order problem as long as the virtual device is always loaded to the same spot. which on *MY* pc it always has been so far.
All good stuff Ripcord and right on in my book.
Simply running the Target software without even a script seems to return different options and appears to make them as one stick too.
This is almost just a theory at this time but it appeared to behave that way yesterday in dcs.
I will probably wait for my pedals before I revisit DCS.
It almost appears as if one should always run the Target GUI in the background to get more and easier options .
I was trying to put yaw on a hat on the throttle for now in DCS yesterday but I only had 4 options.
I fired up the target software then and all of a sudden all my buttons were available.
I only spent a short time at it.
I can see this winter when I am snowed under and trapped by the cold for months, I may just have to delve in to Target scripting.
One can easily change sections of the Sofly script although it requires another step or two in the process as there are other files involved. The info is buried in Sofly's stuff on what needs to be recompiled or whatever.
Man there is a lot of reading and viewing vids to find the information though.
Some folks make something so simple sound so complicated and others hold their cards pretty close to their chest and won't share info. It's an odd phenomenon indeed.
Simply running the Target software without even a script seems to return different options and appears to make them as one stick too.
This is almost just a theory at this time but it appeared to behave that way yesterday in dcs.
I will probably wait for my pedals before I revisit DCS.
It almost appears as if one should always run the Target GUI in the background to get more and easier options .
I was trying to put yaw on a hat on the throttle for now in DCS yesterday but I only had 4 options.
I fired up the target software then and all of a sudden all my buttons were available.
I only spent a short time at it.
I can see this winter when I am snowed under and trapped by the cold for months, I may just have to delve in to Target scripting.
One can easily change sections of the Sofly script although it requires another step or two in the process as there are other files involved. The info is buried in Sofly's stuff on what needs to be recompiled or whatever.
Man there is a lot of reading and viewing vids to find the information though.
Some folks make something so simple sound so complicated and others hold their cards pretty close to their chest and won't share info. It's an odd phenomenon indeed.
My #1 favorite bug. You need to update your TARGET software. The new libs have support from Thrustmaster for T.Flight Rudder pedals. Not my fault :)
Thrustmaster devices by default combine into one single virtual device. However if you look at the latest 2.4 SC profile on http://3dpipeline.net it has support for the new T.Flight rudder pedals. To get those working I used MODE_FILTERED, which lets the device show up separately and doesn't combine it. You can do that with MFDs too, though I don't in the profile.
The files are split like this:
StarCitizen_Solarfly_vX.X.tmc - the main code that executes. I put all the button mapping logic in here, but use a lot of defines as variables, so I can easily change mappings to keep up with Star Citizen's changes.
solarfly_mfd.tmh - MFD mappings. You could do this with other mappings too if your code is complex enough.
solarfly_mapping.tmh - header file containing the defines and mappings to keyboard and DirectX presses. For StarCitizen, these match the XML.
pilot_settings.tmh - variables that the user can customize to tailor the profile to their setup.
TMC is compiler code, TMH files are headers that get included with "include" statements.
Thanks for the nice compliments and props!
Yep I'm really excited for atmospheric flight! Not all ships are aerodynamic though, so it will be really interesting to see if CIG alters the flight model depending on the ship. Maybe some will glide better and some will fall like rocks. Anyway, even before CIG had the function to swap roll and yaw, I had implemented it in the AC 0.8 version of the profile way back. Initially, I also had mapped yaw to rudder pedals, roll on stick, like a fighter plane, but aiming was literally impossible that way.
I've been wondering how to simplify the README and instructions. Windows 10 is currently my biggest pain in the butt, all sorts of USB problems with TARGET (not my fault!)
Cheers!!
Solarfly
Hi solarfly, I'm using your profile for my warthog and it's honestly fantastic so thanks. :)
I've got a quick (probably trivial) question if you can help me. As you know, when not using pedals, left/right roll is mapped to the throttle thumb hat. I'm constantly moving it the wrong direction though because in my head, moving it back corresponds to rolling clockwise (pulling the left side up) instead of anti-clockwise (left side down).
So, to stop my "roll, no wait wrong direction, roll the other way" shenanigans, what do I need to change on the xml or target script to reverse the roll controls?
I've got a quick (probably trivial) question if you can help me. As you know, when not using pedals, left/right roll is mapped to the throttle thumb hat. I'm constantly moving it the wrong direction though because in my head, moving it back corresponds to rolling clockwise (pulling the left side up) instead of anti-clockwise (left side down).
So, to stop my "roll, no wait wrong direction, roll the other way" shenanigans, what do I need to change on the xml or target script to reverse the roll controls?
It's all great stuff Solarfly for sure.
Agreed on Win10 and usb issues.
I have to say, in your video regarding strafing in battle, right on.
They get a lot less ramming in with a little added strafe on pedals.
Solarfly, yours is by far the best script I have found for SC. Thank you sir!
Agreed on Win10 and usb issues.
I have to say, in your video regarding strafing in battle, right on.
They get a lot less ramming in with a little added strafe on pedals.
Solarfly, yours is by far the best script I have found for SC. Thank you sir!
The readme file could be improved by assuming the recipient knows absolutely nothing.
For example, the original or the vid said at one point. load the script.
I was thinking "how, where, wtf"
So I finally found the script editor and loaded it that way. <<Wrong way/not the best
It was a while before I ran across anythng that read use the GUI.
There are more changes coming no doubt.
The damage models of the ships are getting very intense and complicated and actually starting to work.
I thought I lost my bindings when I couldn't suddenly strafe. Then I couldn't strafe only one way.
It had nothing to do with the script. I think.
At first I blamed a lot on the script and losing bindings since you stressed that you may have to reload bindings.
Too much emphasis on that lead me down the wrong path lots of times.
The last thing it is likely to be is the script. I haven't pp_re-binded the bindings in weeks.
Rockin' your script 2-3 hrs a day. Thanks Solarfly for all you do.