Video Games and Violence

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Sraika

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I'm confused as to what you are advocating for here.
You say you want an AI to handle players' bad behaviour - what constitutes bad behaviour?
How would it handle this, and what prevents the system from being misused?
Most importantly, why would that be in any way helpful?
 
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ColdDog

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I believe the argument is that the rise of (violent) video games is the reason we have such a violent society,
Is art a reflection of our society... if so, do video games fall in the realm of art?

Since I have time... I'll explain it.

I know everyone has an opinion. I think that video game violence desensitizes the players
This means that violence is normal and not to be seen as something society should frown upon.


just like in the military
Military tried to desensitize soldier by using targets that look like people outlines when they shoot. They do not shoot circles, they shoot silhouettes.

only people who are not stable fall out, but unfortunately, we do not have a mechanism to enforce responses to bad behavior in video games like the military does.
When someone in the military is found deficient - undesirable they are removed from service.

Since everyone is anonymous online they think they are immune to any negative consequences.. So normal people have to determine what behavior is acceptable and how we deal with these people.
Everyone thinks they are anonymous when they are not... and because of this they think there are no rules to the game or life.

It was not long ago when Test - Namely Montoya -had a lot to say about VirtualAce and his game play.

Even pirates have codes of conduct... and there are things that are socially acceptable.
Example: pirates typically do not attack pirates... your faction is defined in SC.
VirtualAce was exploiting a system to make the experience bad for other players.

That is why I hope Star Citizen builds an AI to flag and marginalize bad behavior by players - being a pirate is a game play style, if you want to be treated like a psychopath that does not fit the play styles of the community, then you should not get missions and get targeted by both lawful and unlawful factions, making the game unplayable for people who do not contribute to the game in a positive way. My opinion.
AI to flag people not acting appropriately. That is why we have a reputation system. What happens when you play a board or card game with someone who is a total jerk... you don't play with them anymore. Casinos always 86 (kick out and ban) undesirables.

Hope this helps.
CD
 
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sum1

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Is art a reflection of our society... if so, do video games fall in the realm of art?

Since I have time... I'll explain it.



This means that violence is normal and not to be seen as something society should frown upon.




Military tried to desensitize soldier by using targets that look like people outlines when they shoot. They do not shoot circles, they shoot silhouettes.



When someone in the military is found deficient - undesirable they are removed from service.



Everyone thinks they are anonymous when they are not... and because of this they think there are no rules to the game or life.



VirtualAce was exploiting a system to make the experience bad for other players.



AI to flag people not acting appropriately. That is why we have a reputation system. What happens when you play a board or card game with someone who is a total jerk... you don't play with them anymore. Casinos always 86 (kick out and ban) undesirables.

Hope this helps.
CD
Thank you. ok putting aside the video game to real-life stuff because that is not what you are talking about.

So the question I have to ask is who determines what is and is not acceptable behavior? I think this is what will hold you back. What one person may see as Ok another may see as not ok. This is why I would be very worried about anything like that. in an example, some of the guys I play with and myself talk endlessly shit to each other, will an admin come into our conversation and kick me from the game because my friends and I were talking shit to each other? Good idea in theory but I don't see a practical way to implement anything like this.
 
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ColdDog

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So the question I have to ask is who determines what is and is not acceptable behavior? I think this is what will hold you back. What one person may see as Ok another may see as not ok.
Answer me this... pretend your a pirate. Would you shoot another pirate? If you did, would there be retribution? If pirate faction A realizes pirate faction B was killing their pirates what would they do? In a macro perspective - say some dude was ramming you on the deck of port alisar(?)... is that normal... what if that dude was following you around just to make your life hell from one instance to another - is that socially acceptable (not your perspective but from a community perspective)?

Real Life
If you leave your car unlocked in your driveway and someone steals your cell phone... is that ok? If your wife cheats on you... is that ok too? If someone shoots your dog, is that ok?

Tell me why its ok for someone to pretend, think, and actually participate in something that encourages this behavior online? This is not only in video games, its all over social media.

If you were on Facebook and someone said they wanted to hurt you, would that be ok? Of course not... there is a disconnect were reality begins and ends. Not all people are rational and many people make the assumption they are normal when they are not.

So tell me what is the justification for hurting someone? Does the video game industry have the responsibility to clean up the virtual environment to make it a somewhat sane?

Look... Saturday and Sunday were bad for us in America. I do not blame video games, but I think we encourage deviant behavior in video games, desensitizing people so they do not realize the implications of their behavior.
 

sum1

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Answer me this... pretend your a pirate. Would you shoot another pirate? If you did, would there be retribution? If pirate faction A realizes pirate faction B was killing their pirates what would they do? In a macro perspective - say some dude was ramming you on the deck of port alisar(?)... is that normal... what if that dude was following you around just to make your life hell from one instance to another - is that socially acceptable (not your perspective but from a community perspective)?

Real Life
If you leave your car unlocked in your driveway and someone steals your cell phone... is that ok? If your wife cheats on you... is that ok too? If someone shoots your dog, is that ok?

Tell me why its ok for someone to pretend, think, and actually participate in something that encourages this behavior online? This is not only in video games, its all over social media.

If you were on Facebook and someone said they wanted to hurt you, would that be ok? Of course not... there is a disconnect were reality begins and ends. Not all people are rational and many people make the assumption they are normal when they are not.

So tell me what is the justification for hurting someone? Does the video game industry have the responsibility to clean up the virtual environment to make it a somewhat sane?

Look... Saturday and Sunday were bad for us in America. I do not blame video games, but I think we encourage deviant behavior in video games, desensitizing people so they do not realize the implications of their behavior.
So I would say in Star Citizen, just like real life there are laws, people are going to beak the laws in both, in both we will send cops, bounty hunters and the like after both of them. If you break the laws IRL you get sent to jail. if you break the laws in Star Citizen someone hires me (as I plan on mainly bounty hunting, security, and mercenary work) to go take care of it. the more crimes you comment the bigger the bounty, the more people you have after you, and sooner or later you will be got. The idea of Star Citizen is an open universe where you can be a scum pirate if you want, but that comes with all the in-game consequences that a pirate IRL has to worry about IRL. acts committed in a video game world playing by the rules of the video game you are in should not have any IRL reactions.

As far as your last sentence this is where the crime stats I posted earlier come into play, so we are "desensitized" yet crime is down in all forms since the 1980s? that does not line up. If video games like GTA or COD caused crime wouldn't the numbers be up?
 

ColdDog

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As far as your last sentence this is where the crime stats I posted earlier come into play, so we are "desensitized" yet crime is down in all forms since the 1980s? that does not line up. If video games like GTA or COD caused crime wouldn't the numbers be up?
Do you really think COD and GTA provide a "good" value to our society. Cops and robbers... thats always fun when sane people do it. MS13 might like it but I do not think those video games add any insight or value to our society(I am a COD owner... never play it) except to placate kids so parents do not have to deal with them. This leads to a deeper discussion of raising kids in 2019 which I do not want to go into because it would take to long.
 

sum1

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Do you really think COD and GTA provide a "good" value to our society. Cops and robbers... thats always fun when sane people do it. MS13 might like it but I do not think those video games add any insight or value to our society(I am a COD owner... never play it) except to placate kids so parents do not have to deal with them. This leads to a deeper discussion of raising kids in 2019 which I do not want to go into because it would take to long.
wait, what? what does MS13 have to do with anything? You don't like a game, no one is forcing you to play it, you should only let your kids play games they are mature enough for, that is what the rating system is for.
I never claimed video games add value to society, no art adds value to society as for as I am concerned. My claim is only this there is NO link from video games to real-world crime.
 

ColdDog

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My claim is only this there is NO link from video games to real-world crime.
Uh yeah... you don't get to act, make decisions, and participate in deviant behavior... and you do not think there are wackos that can distinguish between reality and video games? I know for a "FACT" there are people out there that have a problem with reality...

"Schizophrenia is a chronic and severe mental disorder that affects how a person thinks, feels, and behaves. People with schizophrenia may seem like they have lost touch with reality. Although schizophrenia is not as common as other mental disorders, the symptoms can be very disabling. "

... and you think these people know the difference?

I am not saying it is the "cause", I am saying it is a "enabler". I'm not a psychologist... I'm an engineer and I think video games/online immunity/online persona - play a part in social issues we have in 2019 - Indirectly and directly.
 
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sum1

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Uh yeah... you don't get to act, make decisions, and participate in deviant behavior... and you do not think there are wackos that can distinguish between reality and video games? I know for a "FACT" there are people out there that have a problem with reality...

"Schizophrenia is a chronic and severe mental disorder that affects how a person thinks, feels, and behaves. People with schizophrenia may seem like they have lost touch with reality. Although schizophrenia is not as common as other mental disorders, the symptoms can be very disabling. "

... and you think these people know the difference?

I am not saying it is the "cause", I am saying it is a "enabler". I'm not a psychologist... I'm an engineer and I think video games/online immunity/online persona - play a part in social issues we have in 2019 - Indirectly and directly.
I have seen no proof of any such claim, yes I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but that does not negate the rule as a whole. At this point, I think do not see anything to be gained from any more dialogue on the topic between us. If you have any proof or facts I would be interested in reading them outside of that make any final comments to me you wish.

The Blessing of Beer be on you.
 

Michael

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Okay i really don't understand what you (cold dog) are advertising for. I'm really confused.

Also what Sraika said:
I'm confused as to what you are advocating for here.
You say you want an AI to handle players' bad behaviour - what constitutes bad behaviour?
How would it handle this, and what prevents the system from being misused?
Most importantly, why would that be in any way helpful?
So do you want an AI which removes players who might be a possible danger to the real world from games at all? (people who can't deal with the game)

Do you want the AI to remove them also from movies, social media etc which may cause harm to their mental health?

Do you want all video games to be happy place where no one is getting hurt, just because someone might live their violent fantasies?

[overexaggerated and also a strawman argument]

Do you want a scoring system for people which rates them in good or bad and removes them from society?

[End of exaggeration]

First of all i think ofc there is a minority which will not deal with games good. The question is has this minority a somewhat mental disorder and plays video games to live their violent fantasy or does a video game make a person with a mental disorder violent.

If i remember right the most acts of violence are made by people with an absolut good mental health.

If you have any proper statistical evidence that video games cause real world violence we can talk again. (Surprise: there is none)
(i highly recommend not to rely on single studies, you should compare at least three or four with the same topic)
 

Sraika

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How is bad behavior handled in your community? Laws maybe, regulations, common sense, basic knowledge of right and wrong.
I believe you've gone and missed the point of what i was asking.
 

Mich Angel

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I said it before and not only here...

1950 they blamed rock for causing you to be violent
1960 it was still the music that was root to all evil
1970-1980 that got even worse, now there was witch hunt on music
1990 it was Movies that was cause of all evil men do
2000 it was still mostly movies and now they started to touch on video games
2019 video games are the root to all evil....


Bad parenting is the root to all evil that kids do and there is no escape goat for it...

(
if you have the need to blame, look in the mirror first) 🍻
 

Tealwraith

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At first, I laughed at the idea that violent video games cause real world violence since someone would have to not understand the difference between the pretend world and the real world. We call those people psychotic.

However, as I play more and more World of Tanks, I find myself considering buying a ticket to where ever Wargaming.net has it's main offices and "giving them a piece of my mind." It's probably outside the USA, however, and I don't have a passport. Or the money for a plane ticket. Or time off from work. Also, I really don't like yelling at people, not to mention complete strangers, not to mention foreigners who probably don't even speak english.

Maybe I'll quit playing for awhile, after all, there's no need to get mad, it's just a (rigged) game.
 

sum1

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At first, I laughed at the idea that violent video games cause real world violence since someone would have to not understand the difference between the pretend world and the real world. We call those people psychotic.

However, as I play more and more World of Tanks, I find myself considering buying a ticket to where ever Wargaming.net has it's main offices and "giving them a piece of my mind." It's probably outside the USA, however, and I don't have a passport. Or the money for a plane ticket. Or time off from work. Also, I really don't like yelling at people, not to mention complete strangers, not to mention foreigners who probably don't even speak english.

Maybe I'll quit playing for awhile, after all, there's no need to get mad, it's just a (rigged) game.
Play what makes you happy, what you enjoy. if you're not having a good time, or worse, see you becoming something you don't like, like why I stopped play comp League of Legends, then stop playing it.
 

Phil

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Look all this talk about video games, movies and stuff is just smoke and mirrors for the NRA and pro gun people, if they can make any argument other than the one about handing out AR-15 and other military grade weapons to every tom, dick and jane like its free popcorn night at the movies then that's what their going to do, they are going to make it about mental health, movie and game violence and misdirect the real question like should a 20 year old kid be able to go online and buy military style body armor or walk into a wallmart and buy an AR-15 with 30 round, 60 round or even 100 round magazines, laser sights, grips etc....

No one needs these guns, I know the history of Armalite Rifles, they were created to be sold to the military it didn't sell so they modified it to sell to the public, they sold the rights to Colt the M16 and M4 are direct variants of this weapon, it was created for one single purpose to kill human beings in a time of war, they are easily modified, easy to fire and even in the hands of a novice they are extremely deadly and this is proven time and time again, 20 year olds with no combat experience slaughtering dozens of people without blinking an eye and were going to sit here and argue over some bullshit 2nd amendment that's been twisted and turned to fit one sides view point.

People need to grow up and stop acting as if banning a few assault rifles, magazines and other modifications are the end of the world, I would gladly melt every single one if it meant another family or community wasn't destroyed.

Now look at these pictures and please tell me why a civilian needs anything remotely like this. I would love to hear you explain to the families of the fallen as well.
 

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Love this movie btw and its not bait its the truth, but ya its going to start a war for sure, but we can revisit the other threads years ago where we talked about the same shit after Sandy Hook 26 dead 20 were children where I said not a damn thing would be done and dozens of mass shootings later here we are still arguing about guns, but hey why have discussions both sides are set in stone right, we have this discussion every time and it always ends the same way and a few weeks from now another mass shooting and a year from now dozens more and meanwhile the NRA raking in the dough brought in by the assault weapon ban scare.

Your right, why bother..... America what a country.
 

sum1

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Love this movie btw and its not bait its the truth, but ya its going to start a war for sure, but we can revisit the other threads years ago where we talked about the same shit after Sandy Hook 26 dead 20 were children where I said not a damn thing would be done and dozens of mass shootings later here we are still arguing about guns, but hey why have discussions both sides are set in stone right, we have this discussion every time and it always ends the same way and a few weeks from now another mass shooting and a year from now dozens more and meanwhile the NRA raking in the dough brought in by the assault weapon ban scare.

Your right, why bother..... America what a country.
Ok, fine. I can lay it out.
1: data: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
11k people died from guns (sad) however this includes suicide and justified police shootings. the number of murders is about 4k. about 25% of that is gang violence, all very sad by the fact.
2: Do you think Trump is a tyrant or the next Hitler? if you do why would you give him your guns? if not, do you believe it is possible for a tyrant to rise?
3: Kent State, Slavery, Japanese inurnment, the manicure of native Americans, you know what all these have in common? our government abusing the rights of unarmed, or under armed people. A citizen has the right to self-defense, even against the government, a slave does not. in the last 100 years, tyrannical governments that disarmed their people have killed 100 million of their own people. what we have now may not be perfect but its a lot better then than that.
4: "but the army has tanks and aircraft and nukes you could never win."

5: define "assault weapons"? because it has no technical definition. what is the difference between a Ruger mini 14 and an AR-15?
6: I own guns, "military-grade" ones, I play "violent" video games, I am sick and tired of the left going, "YOU OWN GUNS YOUR EVIL!" and the right going, "YOU PLAY VIDEO GAMES YOU ARE EVIL!" anyone who thinks either of these ways can shove it.
7: all the shootings have only ended when a second gun shows up. if that is cops, the military guy who has his pistol, or the paramedic who held the guy that walked into WalMart at gunpoint until the cops showed up.
8: criminals don't obey laws, so how is taking the horns away from the goat going to stop the wolf? like in Chicago, Detriot, St Louis, California, NY city or any other place ever, including Australia where the crime rate sky rocked before setting down to continue on pre-ban trends. Or like the 35 killed in the 2014 Kunming attack in china by 8 people with knives and the 143 injured.
9: PEOPLE KILLING PEOPLE IS FUCKING BAD AND HORRIBLE, IT HAS BEEN GOING OWN SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME AND WILL GO ON UNTIL THE END OF HUMANS. STOP BLAMING TOOL, MEDIA OR ANYTHING BDEISDE THE DERANGED, DESPICABLE PEOPLE THAT COMMENT THESE ACTS!
10: I am a human, I have the God-given right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. This and my other rights do not come from government, so they can not be taken away by government. The government or other people does not have the right to silence people who disagree with them, the government or other people do not have the right to deny my self-defense from all enemies both foreign or domestic.
 
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