Why you may want a Polaris

Grimbli

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I have seen a lot of silliness posted about the Polaris, and especially the nonsense over at YouTube attached to some of the vids there. So just in case some here have not understood, let me offer a few simple observations.

--Just as Grimbli is implying, the real benefit of the hangar bay is NOT in carrying ships, but in supporting them. You can fly a Sabre or SH off into no man's land only if you have a way to refuel it there, and most fighters do not have refueling probes like the Reliant, so you should not presume you can refuel them off a StarG. To operate a short range fighter you need to be able to land it, refuel it, repair damage, replace its missiles, and you need somewhere to sleep. You cannot operate short range craft out in the unknown reaches without a support ship and the Polaris is designed to support short range fighters. Not carry them! It can only carry 1, but it could support dozens.

--Military historians argue back and forth whether Corvettes are the least armored "ships of the line", meaning ships intended for large fleet engagements; or of they do not qualify as ships of the line at all. Most historians agree that whenever ships that qualify as Corvettes get involved in fleet engagements, they get themselves destroyed, because that is not what they are intended for. A conflict between a small handful of ships is not a fleet engagement. Fleet engagements are conflicts between two or more martial forces. Pirate forces are not considered martial in this sense.

--No ship is safe by itself, but Corvettes are typically deployed in smuggling, anti-smuggling, piracy, anti-piracy, search and rescue, mining and other solo activities. Their speed keeps them safe from larger ships so long as they are not fool enough to engage them. They can also make decent "FarTrader's" if they have a good cargo hold, or escort for a FarTrader (like the Banu Merchantman), or explorer, like the Carrack. If you have a small merchant fleet intended to go into the wilds, this is the ship to send to protect it, since it will allow you to fly short range fighters. If you intend to put together small merchant fleets, you should seek to add this and a squadron of real dog-fighters like the SH and Sabre to your fleet.

--Big military ships are expensive to run, but it is more expensive to lose all your stuff to pirates and raiders like Vanduul. If you fly in space with pirates and raiders you have to have support ships like this. The only alternative is to deploy long range fighters with your merchant fleet, and Vanguard cost even more than Polaris. They may cost less fuel to run, but they require more PC's and cash for the same bang. Three Vanguard are not equal to this Corvette, which makes the Corvette a cost effective alternative for the wary traveler.

People don't seem to get it. This is a great ship at a great price. Just the tactical display is worth the price, IMHO.
This is what I was hinting at. The ship itself should not be in a fight other than the largest battles and then only as a Cap destroyer as its role is wasted on small fighters.

But an escort mission which contains a Polaris at the expense of a few smaller ships will do significantly better.

The crew requirement is a bit expensive, however, turrets can be slaved to a single station or even automated. Then you have maybe 6-7 total after that. That's 3 SHs. I feel the ship is worth that many.

The hangar will obviously need crew, but if you teach each fighter pilot to jump out and repair/refuel themselves then you save more crew, especially if it's a multicrew fighter.

If you go from 10 to 7 SHs, then that's a bargain as those 7 could easily take 10 other SHs with Polaris support.

Is the Carrack not a capital exploration ship?
I'm with you on this one. I think the Endeavor is even a type of Cap ship.
 

eaglemmoomin

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But a corvette is not a 'capital' vessel either really is it? The second world war seems to be what CIG base all this off of and they were from a British perspective small, cheap, convoy escorts that went on patrol duties.

As far as I can see from a modern perspective the closest thing in the RN are the River class OPVs that do fishery protection, guard duty, counter-terrorism, counter-piracy and anti-smuggling operations. Which in theory means the 'big' stuff with missiles and guns ie the frigates and destroyers can be used to do sub hunting, NATO tasks and escort the big amphibous ships and the new aircraft carriers.

Plus if an OPV ever were used for something 'big' a) it wouldn't be able to keep up with the rest of the fleet c) it wouldn't last long b) the RN have been very careful to distinguish what an OPV does and what a 'first class' combatant does as the government seem to think they are interchangeable.
 
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Huegpaynis

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Things like this are why I refer to the polaris as a sub-capital ship, and any huge non-military ship as a capital-class explorer/miner/your mother.
The polaris is designed for some C&C work, making it the centerpiece of almost any militia fleet, but at the same time it's most liekly going to be used in picket and medium interdiction roles by the UEE, so it kind of straddles the capital ship role.
 

Liquor_and_ores

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Just to play Devil's Advocate; Reasons you may not want a Polaris.

1) Price. Not just the fact that this is enough money for a weekend trip to the beach, theres a fuckton of ships you can get for 750 dollarydoos.

750 Bucks could buy you a Super Hornet, Gladiator, Retaliator, and Vanguard. That's a lot of firepower.

Or it could get you a Carrack and Terrapin with enough leftover for an M50.

Or in my case it gets me a Caterpillar, 2 Cutlass Blue, a Buccaneer, Herald, and 3 Dragonflies. That's a lot more versatile and easy to find a place to use it at than a Polaris.

2) Operational Costs. The Polaris is a big, expensive ship. Most likely big, expensive ships are going to be expensive to repair.

With possibly needing to buy
-28 S6 torpedoes
-Ammo to reload 10 (or more, depending on what size the automated chin turret guns are) S4 guns worth of ammo, and possibly your fighter/Gladiator buddy too.
-Fuel to power those 6 big engines
-Missiles for your 2 automated missile launchers

Even if you take no damage at all, you are likely going to need a lot of incoming money to offset the running costs. The upgrade and/or cargo insurance premiums are probably going to be pretty high too, that's a lot of equipment to replace.

3) Replacement time. It's going to suck, but eventually your Polaris will get wasted, or damaged beyond repair. While it's the smallest capital ship, it's still a capital ship and will have a vastly higher replacement time than a Cutlass or Hornet. CIG has said they are planning on making ship replacements exponentially higher for larger ships, and based upon supply and demand. So if you're 45th in line for a Polaris because a big war broke out between TEST and another big faction, but RSI can only pump out 15 a week for instance, wellllll you better crew up with someone else because it will be a while before you get your baby back.

4) Crew requirements. Polaris needs a good chunk of players to run effectively. With 7 Crew stations (5 on the bridge, 1 Engineering, 1 Torp Room), 5 turrets to man, and a Hornet/Sabre/Gladius/Gladiator pilot that is a large number of people to run a ship. It's easy to say "oh we have shittons of people in TEST so you'll have no problem finding people", but its another to find 7-13 people who want to crew your Polaris for however long you want to be in it for that play session. One person has to leave? Welp you're down to an NPC covering you then.

5) The Capital Ship Dilemma. Capital ships are big and expensive. You know what my dream is to find and pirate in the PU? A solo capship, because I can steal that shit. Capital ships are the linebacker of a team. They are the center of your formation tactically, if not literally. A capital ship without proper support will get death by a thousand papercuts, torpedoed, or boarding in short order. The Polaris is a combat powerhouse, but it is not a turret covered monster rape engine like the Javelin is.

The Polaris will be great as the flagship of a fleet, being a heavy escort for merchant vessels, leader of a scout fleet for a combined arms fleet of Idrisi/Javelins, and many many other uses. What it should not do is run solo. Even with a fighter you can carry you will likely need backup in lowsec and certainly nulsec space. Which tacks on to the crew requirement; not only do you need to find X players to help crew your ship, you need X ships to help screen and escort you.


This is not to say that you shouldn't buy a Polaris, but it's great upsides (great combat capability, great multi-crew and teamwork potential) are countered by some downsides that may not be for everyone.

For me, what made me decide to get a Polaris in game rather than melting down most of my ships was I would rather start with stuff I know I can find a place to use it. I can haul cargo in my Cat, use it for piracy missions, SAR, troop transport. I can fight in my Cutlass or Buccaneer, escort convoys, go raid rival mining or salvaging groups, do some light exploration. Do some EWAR, hacking, data-running in my Herald. Etc etc. Whereas with the Polaris, I can forsee instances where I would need to keep it in the hangar because I cannot afford to use it, or it's simply too big for that given purpose.


Just my 2 UEC homies.

This pretty much summed up my reasons for getting customer support to melt down my Armada package, while I loved the idea of having a idris to fly around in for Org support, realisticly I doubt I have the time or friends to justify having it compared to having different roles of ships
 

marcsand2

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Why buy a Polaris when you can buy 37.5 Auroras for the same price? Seriously people, how has this not been brought up yet?
To fly 37.5 Auroras, you will need 38 pilots. To manage a fckng expensive Polaris you need a minimal crew of 7???? Polaris is very good for teamwork combat, it has allot of roles which it can fulfill, as long as you can muster the necessary crew and support, but it is an expensive ship to use, a combat ship, surely not a money making ship.
Last but not least: you don't have a pool table on an Aurora :D
 

Adiran

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I think in SC term anything that uses capital class components (shield generators, power plants, engines etc etc) is techincally a cap ship. But IDK for sure.
Thats my logic exactly.

But a corvette is not a 'capital' vessel either really is it? The second world war seems to be what CIG base all this off of and they were from a British perspective small, cheap, convoy escorts that went on patrol duties.

As far as I can see from a modern perspective the closest thing in the RN are the River class OPVs that do fishery protection, guard duty, counter-terrorism, counter-piracy and anti-smuggling operations. Which in theory means the 'big' stuff with missiles and guns ie the frigates and destroyers can be used to do sub hunting, NATO tasks and escort the big amphibous ships and the new aircraft carriers.

Plus if an OPV ever were used for something 'big' a) it wouldn't be able to keep up with the rest of the fleet c) it wouldn't last long b) the RN have been very careful to distinguish what an OPV does and what a 'first class' combatant does as the government seem to think they are interchangeable.
The closest thing in US Navy i would say is the new Litoral Combat Vessel. They stated its not a ship designed for open water engagument and best suited in shallows and costal hunting similar or smaller ships and subs. It is still however a ship and not a boat. (Closest distinction the navy has to capital aka ship and subcapital aka boat)
 

Shadow Reaper

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Then you have maybe 6-7 total after that. That's 3 SHs. I feel the ship is worth that many.
Just bear in mind that without some sort of support ship like the Polaris, you won't be flying any SH's except in an adjacent system. Really SH's can't replace the Polaris. The only ships that come close right now are the Vanguards and maybe the Redeemer, and no matter how many of them you have, you can't support a bunch of cheap fighters.

One of the nice things about a large org like Test is on any given night one supposes you can put the call out and find dozens of people who want to join your mad scheme. If your mad scheme is in some backwater system 4 jumps from UEE space, you have to have somewhere for the plethora of fighters that flock in to land. The Polaris is the smallest ship that can call in the cavalry, and the fastest. Its worth noting almost every player has a small fighter of some sort, but relatively few have long range fighters. This fixes that.
 

Shadow Reaper

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Last but not least: you don't have a pool table on an Aurora :D
That is a big deal for me. I will probably want to be involved in some complex and cool operation about weekly, but lots of the time it is just hangin' with the peeps and this ship looks more fun to hang in than any hanger I've seen. Bridge is equal to the Carrack. One has to wonder if they have thought how to make the pool table work.

The most powerful gameplay is always cooperative, group play. So anything that draws people into tight-knit groups is important bonus to my mind. Pool Table = EXCELLENT!!!
 

marcsand2

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The most powerful gameplay is always cooperative, group play. So anything that draws people into tight-knit groups is important bonus to my mind. Pool Table = EXCELLENT!!!
Just remember: I have a bad aim but most of the time I know where to place the white ball so you also have a hard time :p
 

Adiran

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The Flagship/Capital ship has no Med bay to treat its wounded. That kinda downgrades my idea of Capital Ship
The thing is even in the Navy today not every ship has a full-on medbay to treat the injured. Every ship does come with a corpsman or two. The larger ships may not be able to take surgical patients and things like that but the small ships may only have two medical personnel that have one small room with very limited supplies where they are expected to treat every single person on the ship no matter the injury or illness.

This is because it's standard Navy practice to always have medical personnel. Maybe in the UEE it's not standard practice.

Just read stories about the attack on the USS Cole. 2 corpsman having to treat the injuries of over 40 people. No medical Bay limited medical supplies and all taking place on a ship that may or may not sink from the explosion that just occurred. That Destroyer didn't have a true medical Bay in the sense of the word. But keeping that small contingent of corpsman on board with their own space to work with limited supplies they were able to save a lot of lives that day.
 

AstroGimp01

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Q&A Part 1 is up and it has a lot of information - all but says fighters are no issue vs the 3x Large Shields but anti-cap STS weapons from another or larger cap ship will be dangerous for the WarChip - good in dpeth answers I thought.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15559-RSI-Polaris-Q-A-Part-1

Overall solidifies my opinion, this is a serious combat vessel to military specs, that will be faster than most other similarly sized/gunned vessels.

'Gimp
 
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